Opinion Privileges revoked
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Blew.2 wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

I like and feel for Mariners fans but really, the club are in complete dis-a-ray

Need to relocate to Auckland

/fixed

Opinion Privileges revoked
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More seriously - I'm seeing complaints from Salties fans about their ownership asset-stripping the club and running down development programmes, etc. Are the Salties going to go the way of GCU, even with that guaranteed-for-forever licence?

Marquee
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RR wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

I like and feel for Mariners fans but really, the club are in complete dis-a-ray

Sacking Mulvey is putting a bandage on a broken leg. The problems the club has had with recruitment and retention have existed for a number of seasons now, regardless of who is the manager. You could hire a world class one but he couldn't do anything with the quality of players they sign and when they do find a diamond in the rough, they lose them straight away because they don't lock them into a longer term deal.

Thought they had a good squad at the start of the season.

But you're right, coaching is the least of their problems.

Legend
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Doloras wrote:

More seriously - I'm seeing complaints from Salties fans about their ownership asset-stripping the club and running down development programmes, etc. Are the Salties going to go the way of GCU, even with that guaranteed-for-forever licence?

might be an opportunity for us to grab hold of it when they fold.

Marquee
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Maybe I'm being naive but would it have hurt to give Mulvey the jump option first rather than humiliatingly sacking him at 1am? Granted it's always the coach that has to pay the price for poor onfield performances at the end of the day but he's still been hamstrung by colossal club inefficiency. 

Add to that the onfield/offfield shenanigans of the likes of O'Neill, Simon, Hoole and Pain, all experienced players who owed their club and their coach a much higher degree of professionalism than they've recently shown and you have a situation where Mulvey could not have got that club out of its nosedive in a million years.

Interesting to hear the board that sacked him emphasizing how they want to 'increase revenues' going forward, just the kind of financially inflected weasel words that show they have lost sight of what the true basis of a football club should be.

Starting XI
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Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

RR
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Bossi Insider
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over 15 years

Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

Aussie teams got 20 year extensions, so they are safe until Charlesworth decides he doesn't want the club anymore and sells it to someone that might try to live the club.
Starting XI
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Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

I hope so, it absolutely should be.

I hate it when people question our A-League licence for things like poor crowds, and I think it's disgusting that a lot of Phoenix fans seem to question other clubs remaining in the league. We should not support kicking clubs out for 'metrics' whether it's us or anyone else. A lot of fans from other clubs showed solidarity with us yet people on here seem willing to throw any other club under the bus to try save us.

and 1 other
LG
Legend
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History shows all over the world that if a club is not performing attendances will drop. It is swings and roundabouts. The sooner some owners understand this, the better. One day the Victory and even Sydney will experience rough results and their numbers will drop. It just happens. 

Perhaps if the Kingz or Knights put in decent results and achieved something, they might still exist with a decent fan base. The potential is always there in Auckland with at least 100k of registered players of various ages. All they needed was 7-10k show up. Get some decent players in and away they would have gone.

CCM will bounce back one day and their fans deserve it to happen.

Appiah without the pace
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over 16 years

If CCM lose all their remaining games they have a worst PPG than the knights did in their first season. 

Opinion Privileges revoked
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There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

RR
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Bossi Insider
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2ndBest wrote:

If CCM lose all their remaining games they have a worst PPG than the knights did in their first season. 

First thing I had a look at when I realized it was Rnd 21, they only beat the Knights by 1 point for a 21 game season.
Life and death
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Doloras wrote:

There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

I agree to a degree, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some kind of minimum a club has to spend? I'm thinking about minimum number of signed players but are there any other lower limits? I know spending more money doesn't necessarily mean better people but perhaps some lower limits might prevent some owners spending bugger all on the club and pocketing profits/asset stripping/just being too frugal like the Charlesworths, Palmers etc of this world. Its more than just players on the pitch that are necessary to make a club successful and by extension the league successful.

I'm not necessarily against a closed shop and for pro-rel to maintain a high standard competition, there are several leagues in other codes and around the world that survive very well without it.

Marquee
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Doloras wrote:

There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

I agree to a degree, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some kind of minimum a club has to spend? I'm thinking about minimum number of signed players but are there any other lower limits? I know spending more money doesn't necessarily mean better people but perhaps some lower limits might prevent some owners spending bugger all on the club and pocketing profits/asset stripping/just being too frugal like the Charlesworths, Palmers etc of this world. Its more than just players on the pitch that are necessary to make a club successful and by extension the league successful.

I'm not necessarily against a closed shop and for pro-rel to maintain a high standard competition, there are several leagues in other codes and around the world that survive very well without it.

Minimum Squad size and number of youth players. the spend is dictated by the minimum wage set by PFA/FFA.

Charlseworth has spend heaps on Fixed Assets (Brck n Mortar) and word is minimum on player wages 

Marquee
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They have to spend 90% of the cap on their playing squad, which is what CCM did before (cap-minimum) but this year they had a marquee and quite an expensive front line so would have been above the cap.

Marquee
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Don’t demonise the owner - He is  the one keeping the team here

"Central Coast Mariners CEO Shaun Mielekamp has warned supporters against demonising under-fire owner Mike Charlesworth, saying he is the only thing keeping the club in the region."

Sounds like the attacks on Rob Morrison/Welnix on here

Marquee
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Blew.2 wrote:

Don’t demonise the owner - He is  the one keeping the team here

"Central Coast Mariners CEO Shaun Mielekamp has warned supporters against demonising under-fire owner Mike Charlesworth, saying he is the only thing keeping the club in the region."

Sounds like the attacks on Rob Morrison/Welnix on here

Charlesworth gets a lot of bad press, much more than Morrison ever got, and not just this season.

Marquee
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over 11 years

Colvinator wrote:

Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

I hope so, it absolutely should be.

I hate it when people question our A-League licence for things like poor crowds, and I think it's disgusting that a lot of Phoenix fans seem to question other clubs remaining in the league. We should not support kicking clubs out for 'metrics' whether it's us or anyone else. A lot of fans from other clubs showed solidarity with us yet people on here seem willing to throw any other club under the bus to try save us.

I think you'd find very, very few Nix fans who seriously think the Mariners should be thrown under the bus. Comments on YF highlighting other clubs' substandard metrics are in general a frustrated reaction to what is seen as a massively prejudiced policy against the Nix.

If you asked most Nix fans if they think CCM should have their licence revoked because of poor results and poor metrics I am sure they would say no, of course not, but why is FFA singling us out when other clubs have been doing just as badly, if not worse?

Starting XI
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Outpost wrote:

Colvinator wrote:

Royz wrote:

Crowd last night was 3,703 and CCM licence is safe?

I hope so, it absolutely should be.

I hate it when people question our A-League licence for things like poor crowds, and I think it's disgusting that a lot of Phoenix fans seem to question other clubs remaining in the league. We should not support kicking clubs out for 'metrics' whether it's us or anyone else. A lot of fans from other clubs showed solidarity with us yet people on here seem willing to throw any other club under the bus to try save us.

I think you'd find very, very few Nix fans who seriously think the Mariners should be thrown under the bus. Comments on YF highlighting other clubs' substandard metrics are in general a frustrated reaction to what is seen as a massively prejudiced policy against the Nix.

If you asked most Nix fans if they think CCM should have their licence revoked because of poor results and poor metrics I am sure they would say no, of course not, but why is FFA singling us out when other clubs have been doing just as badly, if not worse?

Yes, pretty much agree. Though I have seen some comments that are at least verging on an outright attack on whether some other clubs should be in the league at all. No club should get kicked out because of 'metrics' in the way that has been threatened against us.

Situation frustrating for us, hopefully does get sorted soon. Obviously being a New Zealand club we will always to some extent be viewed differently than other clubs, but the last few years have been bullshark.

Opinion Privileges revoked
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over 14 years

But it's not comparable, because no other club can be kicked out because of metrics. CCM have a guaranteed licence for another 17 years. Ours will be pulled in one year unless the entire competition is reorganized (which signs say it will be, thankfully). 


So CCM are not in any danger unless the owner pulls the plug, and some disgruntled Nix fans won't make that happen.

Legend
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almost 9 years

Doloras wrote:

There are a lot of people talking about how there's no incentive for good onfield performance in the "closed shop" A-League, but how about there being no incentive for competent off-field management? I honestly think WelNix don't get credit for being frugal; some people would prefer a model where someone with more money than sense is prepared to personally subsidise losses so a club can hire superstars etc. Do you want Clive Palmer? Because that's how you get Clive Palmer.

I agree to a degree, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some kind of minimum a club has to spend? I'm thinking about minimum number of signed players but are there any other lower limits? I know spending more money doesn't necessarily mean better people but perhaps some lower limits might prevent some owners spending bugger all on the club and pocketing profits/asset stripping/just being too frugal like the Charlesworths, Palmers etc of this world. Its more than just players on the pitch that are necessary to make a club successful and by extension the league successful.

I'm not necessarily against a closed shop and for pro-rel to maintain a high standard competition, there are several leagues in other codes and around the world that survive very well without it.

I’ve seen this mentioned other times. Even I think someone accusing Welnix of doing it to the Nix. 

So I’m genuinely interested. How as an owner, do you asset strip a football club? I must be missing something.

I don’t remember Ron Brierley ever buying a sports team, to carve up into various assets. Where do these myths that owning an A League team, is a smart profitable business venture, come from.

Marquee
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Who said WelNix asset stripped the Phoenix?

When they took over the Phoenix had no assets, they didn't even have paperwork as that was all left abandoned in an office that the banks took off Seripisos. They had a playing roster but pretty much had to rebuild the club, including building a brand new purpose built training facility with the council, creating multiple reserve and youth teams, and spending a fortune on state of the art sports science equipment.

What people in the Mariners fan base is accusing Charlesworth of is buying out the Mariners just for the Centre of Excellence and ignoring the team. But, that doesn't really make sense. He was apparently offered $8 million just for the Mariners license, he'd get to keep all these other assets that he's "stripping" and he turned them down.

Also, what's the state of the "centre of excellence"? Apparently the Mariners don't even train there. It's just a YMCA and a couple of small football pitches. Hardly the purpose built stadium complex with hotel and function facilities that was promised.

LG
Legend
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I just hope CCM get their issues sorted. I hate seeing any team fold and was really disappointed with what Palmer did to Central Coast. The Fury too. I felt both teams offered something positive for fans. I'd love to see the A League as a 16 team league. More grounds and fans to meet and greet.

LG
Legend
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Opinion Privileges revoked
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What disturbs me is that if the NLWG decide to pull the plug on the Salties, then the assumption that they'll throw us a lifeline might be misplaced.

Unless they give us the Salties' licence.

Legend
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thing that gets me, is the idea that if a club aint performing on the field they should be cut from the comp. In reality someone has to finish last. It would be a really dull competition if everyone played equally. (0-0 draws all around). Promotion/relegation would make it better but first we need to get a stable 16 team div 1 league.

Marquee
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Even when it is not your club being bashed by the Qzzy media, it does not make you feel good about the league.

Mariners open the door for Canberra

Opinion Privileges revoked
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over 14 years

Well, you can't have Canberra Mariners, unless they're sailing around that artificial lake.

Starting XI
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almost 17 years

Lonegunmen wrote:

History shows all over the world that if a club is not performing attendances will drop. It is swings and roundabouts. The sooner some owners understand this, the better. One day the Victory and even Sydney will experience rough results and their numbers will drop. It just happens. 

Perhaps if the Kingz or Knights put in decent results and achieved something, they might still exist with a decent fan base. The potential is always there in Auckland with at least 100k of registered players of various ages. All they needed was 7-10k show up. Get some decent players in and away they would have gone.

CCM will bounce back one day and their fans deserve it to happen.

The Knights we're robbed of a number of wins and draws due to inept kiwi officials.  Think Aucklanders are quite unreliable at times 

RR
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Bossi Insider
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over 15 years

Non paywalled link to the article https://outline.com/bupqCp

Marquee
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RR wrote:

Non paywalled link to the article https://outline.com/bupqCp

Sounds like a solid move.
RR
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Bossi Insider
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over 15 years
Appiah without the pace
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over 16 years

Insert gag about toxic cultures

Starting XI
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Hopefully Stajcic can bring this team together and they can get some results in the next six games. They have played well in patches during the season and been leading in a lot of games. Shame for them that Oar and Harajie are injured. Going to be interesting to see how they react against Newcastle this weekend. Don't think they will win, but don't think they will lose by 6 again.

RR
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Bossi Insider
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over 15 years

Whoever they appoint for next season is gonna have a lot of work to do. From their best starting line up they are losing Pain, Millar, Aspro, Rowles and O'Neill. They will have 4 visa slots to use however tho, with only McGlinchey contracted for next season.

Marquee
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I'd be looking to get rid of WeeMac if I could. Sad to see such a good player for NZ and the Phoenix continue to slide.

But their team at the start of the season looked pretty impressive, I remember the Mariners fan base were bullish of finals football and it obviously fell apart.

Apparently they spent the season without strength and conditioning or video analysis departments. They need to be investing off the field as much as on it.

Marquee
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almost 17 years

Doloras wrote:

Well, you can't have Canberra Mariners, unless they're sailing around that artificial lake.

Canberra/Jervis Bay Mariners?

Marquee
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over 12 years
Marquee
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aitkenmike wrote:

Doloras wrote:

Well, you can't have Canberra Mariners, unless they're sailing around that artificial lake.

Canberra/Jervis Bay Mariners?

I'd go for  "The Burley-Griffins"

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