Ole @ Torslanda IK (Sweden; regional 4th division?)

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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over 14 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Declan...

He thinks his way is the best way

He has had his successes and his failures.

Declan is just like any other football coach in the world in that respect.

In NZ, this goldfish bowl is quite tiny so he stands out as being noisy because he has had a couple of players go ok. Anywhere else in the world, no one would probably give him a second thought.

That probably says more about the lack of quality of our players our system produces in that the 1-2 he does produce, standout vs our national system would produce and what would happen in other countries

So you could say that with the players his academy has produce in recent years compared to what nzf system has produced his way is the best...

I understand the point you are making. Mine was bigger than just what happens in NZ

My point is (and this is a lot harsher than I intend but its more to illustrate the point)

Declan is a good coach I think on an NZ landscape so I take nothing away from that - but I also think take him out of NZ, and he is just another football coach. Tab Baldwin was great for the mens basketball team, but he was just another American basketball coach of no particular worth outside of NZ. Declan has had his success that is about as measurable as if I close my eyes and throw stones at a milk bottle 20m away, I will hit if I throw enough stones. The very fact that I will hit, does not make me an expert at hitting milk bottles with stones with my eyes close from 20m away. It means that every once in a while, I am going to have success. Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd 


To be able to call himself great I think he needs to learn to be flexible and play nice. Thats the only reasons why he doesn't work with NZF is his lack of flexibility, or he could most likely have been the technical director by now, and then how would our stock look? We would then all be at his feet calling him the saviour.

Consider that.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Declan...

He thinks his way is the best way

He has had his successes and his failures.

Declan is just like any other football coach in the world in that respect.

In NZ, this goldfish bowl is quite tiny so he stands out as being noisy because he has had a couple of players go ok. Anywhere else in the world, no one would probably give him a second thought.

That probably says more about the lack of quality of our players our system produces in that the 1-2 he does produce, standout vs our national system would produce and what would happen in other countries

So you could say that with the players his academy has produce in recent years compared to what nzf system has produced his way is the best...

I understand the point you are making. Mine was bigger than just what happens in NZ

My point is (and this is a lot harsher than I intend but its more to illustrate the point)

Declan is a good coach I think on an NZ landscape so I take nothing away from that - but I also think take him out of NZ, and he is just another football coach. Tab Baldwin was great for the mens basketball team, but he was just another American basketball coach of no particular worth outside of NZ. Declan has had his success that is about as measurable as if I close my eyes and throw stones at a milk bottle 20m away, I will hit if I throw enough stones. The very fact that I will hit, does not make me an expert at hitting milk bottles with stones with my eyes close from 20m away. It means that every once in a while, I am going to have success. Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd 


To be able to call himself great I think he needs to learn to be flexible and play nice. Thats the only reasons why he doesn't work with NZF is his lack of flexibility, or he could most likely have been the technical director by now, and then how would our stock look? We would then all be at his feet calling him the saviour.

Consider that.

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

Starting XI
2.5K
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2.4K
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over 8 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Declan...

He thinks his way is the best way

He has had his successes and his failures.

Declan is just like any other football coach in the world in that respect.

In NZ, this goldfish bowl is quite tiny so he stands out as being noisy because he has had a couple of players go ok. Anywhere else in the world, no one would probably give him a second thought.

That probably says more about the lack of quality of our players our system produces in that the 1-2 he does produce, standout vs our national system would produce and what would happen in other countries

So you could say that with the players his academy has produce in recent years compared to what nzf system has produced his way is the best...

I understand the point you are making. Mine was bigger than just what happens in NZ

My point is (and this is a lot harsher than I intend but its more to illustrate the point)

Declan is a good coach I think on an NZ landscape so I take nothing away from that - but I also think take him out of NZ, and he is just another football coach. Tab Baldwin was great for the mens basketball team, but he was just another American basketball coach of no particular worth outside of NZ. Declan has had his success that is about as measurable as if I close my eyes and throw stones at a milk bottle 20m away, I will hit if I throw enough stones. The very fact that I will hit, does not make me an expert at hitting milk bottles with stones with my eyes close from 20m away. It means that every once in a while, I am going to have success. Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd 


To be able to call himself great I think he needs to learn to be flexible and play nice. Thats the only reasons why he doesn't work with NZF is his lack of flexibility, or he could most likely have been the technical director by now, and then how would our stock look? We would then all be at his feet calling him the saviour.

Consider that.

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

Nelfoos wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Declan...

He thinks his way is the best way

He has had his successes and his failures.

Declan is just like any other football coach in the world in that respect.

In NZ, this goldfish bowl is quite tiny so he stands out as being noisy because he has had a couple of players go ok. Anywhere else in the world, no one would probably give him a second thought.

That probably says more about the lack of quality of our players our system produces in that the 1-2 he does produce, standout vs our national system would produce and what would happen in other countries

So you could say that with the players his academy has produce in recent years compared to what nzf system has produced his way is the best...

I understand the point you are making. Mine was bigger than just what happens in NZ

My point is (and this is a lot harsher than I intend but its more to illustrate the point)

Declan is a good coach I think on an NZ landscape so I take nothing away from that - but I also think take him out of NZ, and he is just another football coach. Tab Baldwin was great for the mens basketball team, but he was just another American basketball coach of no particular worth outside of NZ. Declan has had his success that is about as measurable as if I close my eyes and throw stones at a milk bottle 20m away, I will hit if I throw enough stones. The very fact that I will hit, does not make me an expert at hitting milk bottles with stones with my eyes close from 20m away. It means that every once in a while, I am going to have success. Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd 


To be able to call himself great I think he needs to learn to be flexible and play nice. Thats the only reasons why he doesn't work with NZF is his lack of flexibility, or he could most likely have been the technical director by now, and then how would our stock look? We would then all be at his feet calling him the saviour.

Consider that.

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Declan's focus is on NZ though, that is his 'grand scheme of things' (for now). Looking at his 1994 group out of the Waikato-Bay of Plenty and those from around 1998 onwards out of Olé, his approach appears to be streets ahead as far as the NZ footballer is concerned. Saying that's nothing in the context of the whole football world is shifting the debate to an arena he's not fighting in (yet).

Starting XI
2.5K
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2.4K
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over 8 years

Nelfoos wrote:

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Declan's focus is on NZ though, that is his 'grand scheme of things' (for now). Looking at his 1994 group out of the Waikato-Bay of Plenty and those from around 1998 onwards out of Olé, his approach appears to be streets ahead as far as the NZ footballer is concerned. Saying that's nothing in the context of the whole football world is shifting the debate to an arena he's not fighting in (yet).

Fair enough. I don't disagree that he's the best person at developing talent in NZ in the slightest. However, I don't think what he's achieved within NZ is anywhere near enough to justify the ego and method of dealing with other clubs/academies/players - in fact, I can't think of much that would justify it beyond pumping out Premier League players. Its great for New Zealand, but he's hamstringing football in NZ with his attitude and selfishness (but by no means is the only person/organisation to blame), while at the same time taking every opportunity to promote himself and denigrate others on social media.
Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

In very few fields of endeavor do innovators succeed inside the system. The system usually doesn’t deal well with them. Business overcomes this issue by giving the hot-house complete creative freedom; and then buying, copying or learning from it. 

Lawyerish
1.7K
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4.8K
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about 13 years

I don't know enough about coaching to comment. 

But putting aside his success stories the tier beneath play an attractive style. 

While they may never reach the top leagues of Europe like Thomas, it is always more enjoyable watching a team actually play football and even lose, then watching crap and losing

WeeNix
390
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900
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almost 11 years

weather he is a bellend or not, he seems to have a pretty good formula at the moment he has produced Boyd and Thomas to play where they are when he was first starting out and admits himself he had no idea what he was actually doing. 10 years later i'm sure he has learnt alot from his own mistakes and researching/observing others. 

Is it really rocket science and that hard for other club etc to impliment something similar? I don't buy into resouces etc excuse, there seems to be enough "directors of football" and "Professional coaches" at clubs around the place. Get the kids playing every day offer a place to play. Not just on a monday because of this and that... everyday! the keen ones will come.  

Listen to Podcast this morning. Rooney grew up in coucil estate in Liverpool playing on concert court, before and after school he was there "playing" not being coached. He wouldnt have been playing "master cheif" thats for sure.

My little dealing with Declan i thought he was a complete tool, but i'd not have a problem going in and obsvering what goes on. why should he be flexible to others when what he is doing is working and what the majority of others are doing isnt to the same extent. At the end of the day if people dont like what he is doing than do go! 

WeeNix
890
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960
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about 7 years

Would Boyd and Thomas have made it if they had gone somewhere other than to Declan.

Would others have made it if they went to Declan.

Would others have made it if they went somewhere other than to Declan.

How long does one need to be with Declan to be a Declan product. Is it a percentage or a raw time period. Is that time period longer or shorter if they have learnt some skills elsewhere.

If, say, Cacace and Singh make it next year and no other Declan players do, does that mean that Declan's way is yesterday's method and WPX is the new Messiah, or does it mean there is more than one way, or is it just an anomaly.

Starting XI
3K
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3K
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almost 7 years

yeah that’s exactly the thing. We can’y judge off such a small sample size but looking from the outside in, without taking into regard any Boyds or Thomases or Singhs anyone’s produced, it’s fair to say Declan is one of the foremost football visionaries in the countey

Trialist
14
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84
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over 9 years

There is a list provided by ultimatenzsoccer.com listing some of our Kiwi players overseas.

Its a bit dated and needs correcting but a hell of a lot of Kiwis plying their trade/dream that Declan would not know about.

Many more at US universities and some playing USL2 at present

https://www.ultimatenzsoccer.com/NZRepSoccer/id817...

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

braces wrote:

There is a list provided by ultimatenzsoccer.com listing some of our Kiwi players overseas.

Its a bit dated and needs correcting but a hell of a lot of Kiwis plying their trade/dream that Declan would not know about.

Many more at US universities and some playing USL2 at present

https://www.ultimatenzsoccer.com/NZRepSoccer/id817...

Given the small number of players Declan has coached and the ratio of success - pro, semi-pro, US college etc he/Ole are easily one of the most successful environments for nurturing talent in nz. 

There’s another ‘Declan’ thread elsewhere under Coaching. Back to Torslanda...

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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about 17 years

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

You have to be very careful saying Declan is responsible for any players success. He will be involved just like a bunch of coaches and influences will be. Is Ricki Herbert due credit for Tyler Boyd for example. Also need to be careful about Ole, they have had success to will attract good players. I think they've some good ideas, but no academy can work with put good raw materials. They are also a for profit business so have an incentive to promote their success. 

For most players they themselves are the primary reason they are successful, be wary of coaches trying to take credit. 

Starting XI
480
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2.1K
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over 14 years

I don't really get the connection between winning and building best players.. doesn't feel mutually exclusive. want best player at career peak career, not the 6 foot 5 striker who has been part of winning teams since age 9, because been the targetan everyone hoofs long to, nut can't dribble or pass?

Fwiw, West's under Declan have tthe winningest record/ highest average places finish, and  youngest side in Central League, Iver last 4 years I believe? Ole is a Non profit charitable trust, not a business. So off.topic mods take control?!?

WeeNix
890
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960
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about 7 years

zonknz wrote:

I don't really get the connection between winning and building best players.. doesn't feel mutually exclusive. want best player at career peak career, not the 6 foot 5 striker who has been part of winning teams since age 9, because been the targetan everyone hoofs long to, nut can't dribble or pass?

Fwiw, West's under Declan have tthe winningest record/ highest average places finish, and  youngest side in Central League, Iver last 4 years I believe? Ole is a Non profit charitable trust, not a business. So off.topic mods take control?!?

Not the youngest

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

ClubOranje wrote:

zonknz wrote:

I don't really get the connection between winning and building best players.. doesn't feel mutually exclusive. want best player at career peak career, not the 6 foot 5 striker who has been part of winning teams since age 9, because been the targetan everyone hoofs long to, nut can't dribble or pass?

Fwiw, West's under Declan have tthe winningest record/ highest average places finish, and  youngest side in Central League, Iver last 4 years I believe? Ole is a Non profit charitable trust, not a business. So off.topic mods take control?!?

Not the youngest

Taking the ages of the 14 most-used players as of the midpoint of the Central League season, I make Wests' average age (as of today) 18.29 and Lower Hutt's 18.14.

WeeNix
890
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960
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about 7 years

ClubOranje wrote:

zonknz wrote:

I don't really get the connection between winning and building best players.. doesn't feel mutually exclusive. want best player at career peak career, not the 6 foot 5 striker who has been part of winning teams since age 9, because been the targetan everyone hoofs long to, nut can't dribble or pass?

Fwiw, West's under Declan have tthe winningest record/ highest average places finish, and  youngest side in Central League, Iver last 4 years I believe? Ole is a Non profit charitable trust, not a business. So off.topic mods take control?!?

Not the youngest

Taking the ages of the 14 most-used players as of the midpoint of the Central League season, I make Wests' average age (as of today) 18.29 and Lower Hutt's 18.14.

Do you have a single number for last Sunday's H2H WS v LH match?

Which was an enjoyable watch from both sides just quietly

Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years

ClubOranje wrote:

ClubOranje wrote:

zonknz wrote:

I don't really get the connection between winning and building best players.. doesn't feel mutually exclusive. want best player at career peak career, not the 6 foot 5 striker who has been part of winning teams since age 9, because been the targetan everyone hoofs long to, nut can't dribble or pass?

Fwiw, West's under Declan have tthe winningest record/ highest average places finish, and  youngest side in Central League, Iver last 4 years I believe? Ole is a Non profit charitable trust, not a business. So off.topic mods take control?!?

Not the youngest

Taking the ages of the 14 most-used players as of the midpoint of the Central League season, I make Wests' average age (as of today) 18.29 and Lower Hutt's 18.14.

Do you have a single number for last Sunday's H2H WS v LH match?

Which was an enjoyable watch from both sides just quietly

if that was round 11 then comet says Wests 19 and LH 18. Avg season is 18.79 and 18.14 respectively. Others - Karori 20.84, Napier 25.3, Oly 25.58.

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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about 17 years

zonknz wrote:

I don't really get the connection between winning and building best players.. doesn't feel mutually exclusive. want best player at career peak career, not the 6 foot 5 striker who has been part of winning teams since age 9, because been the targetan everyone hoofs long to, nut can't dribble or pass?

Fwiw, West's under Declan have tthe winningest record/ highest average places finish, and  youngest side in Central League, Iver last 4 years I believe? Ole is a Non profit charitable trust, not a business. So off.topic mods take control?!?

I agree at junior level developing players and winning matches may be mutually exclusive.  But Declan is coaching a first team now where winning does matter.  Agree he has done well at Wests but its Central League so you have to be careful.

Ole is a business.  Don't kid yourself.

Back to the original point of this thread, it will be interesting to see how this club does under a model where the coach doesn't measure its success by winning football games.  

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Marquee
3.3K
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5.1K
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almost 13 years

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

But I thought your club was Auckland City and Ramon does have a pretty good record?

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

I guess a lot will depend how much support he has from Torslanda board, and how much control he is given etc.

At WaiBOP it didn’t go well. But that does now seem a long time ago, he would have learnt a shark load since then, and his methods are now a million times more proven.

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

Add Pinjaker to the Kiwi list currently at Torslanda. 

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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about 17 years

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach.  

I just have a real issue with any academy, or coach, taking credit for developing a particular player.  Chris Wood went to England when he was 16, is he really a Declan player?  Good players are also attracted to good coaching, so it also becomes self-selecting.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach.  

I just have a real issue with any academy, or coach, taking credit for developing a particular player.  Chris Wood went to England when he was 16, is he really a Declan player?  Good players are also attracted to good coaching, so it also becomes self-selecting.

No one will know better than the player him or herself - whether a coach/academy from the past deserves credit for their future success.

Thomas and Boyd both visit Ole, when they make their rare trips back to NZ. I think they both have also spoken warmly of their time with the mad hatter.

Not sure what Wood has to do with it all. Don't think he's ever been claimed as an Edge disciple.

Marquee
1.3K
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5.3K
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over 16 years

coochiee wrote:

james dean wrote:

james dean wrote:

end of the day, in this context he needs to be able to coach football teams would win.  So far that's not something he's been great at, so I'm excited to see if his methods can work. I still think that asking to be judged as a football coach other than based on results is taking the easy way out... 

in Declan's time at Wests he finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 1st & 2nd, Got to the Chatham Cup Final once, Quarter finals twice. and while he wasn't in the hot seat at Eastern Suburbs he was a "consultant" and the core of the team that won the National League were his Wests team

Seems to be doing a pretty good job at coaching teams that win, would love my club to have a coach with this record

Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach.  

I just have a real issue with any academy, or coach, taking credit for developing a particular player.  Chris Wood went to England when he was 16, is he really a Declan player?  Good players are also attracted to good coaching, so it also becomes self-selecting.

No one will know better than the player him or herself - whether a coach/academy from the past deserves credit for their future success.

Thomas and Boyd both visit Ole, when they make their rare trips back to NZ. I think they both have also spoken warmly of their time with the mad hatter.

Not sure what Wood has to do with it all. Don't think he's ever been claimed as an Edge disciple.

I think Chris Wood is a Wynrs alumni 

https://www.wynrs.co.nz/about

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

Plenty of fingers in the Wood pie. Mike Groom and Roger Wilkinson played their parts as well.

Trialist
47
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76
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almost 6 years

There is a difference between pointing out that a player trained at an academy and claiming that the player is only successful because of their time at that academy and not any of the football they played before that. It's a much better pitch to say "look at how well this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing" than "look at how this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing, but they also spent time at this other club, and this futsal academy, and this holiday programme, so it's hard to quantify how big our impact was."

Could Olé be more supportive of other organisations? Absolutely. Should they be? Maybe.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

CBFryingpan wrote:

There is a difference between pointing out that a player trained at an academy and claiming that the player is only successful because of their time at that academy and not any of the football they played before that. It's a much better pitch to say "look at how well this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing" than "look at how this player who spent a significant amount of time here is doing, but they also spent time at this other club, and this futsal academy, and this holiday programme, so it's hard to quantify how big our impact was."

Could Olé be more supportive of other organisations? Absolutely. Should they be? Maybe.

What organisations is Olé not being supportive of?

WeeNix
390
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900
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almost 11 years

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Some of that is fair, but Central League isn't a real test of his ability as a coach. 

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How would you test his ability to coach then? If not with winning games in at a "high" level. Ratio of players that he has "worked" with that have gone on to play at a higher level than central league?  Then who are you comparing him to? Eric Harrison? Or his mate down the road?

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Flying Kiwis and Swedish Div 4.

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Here’s your evidence that Nando Pijnaker is also on the books with the Torsies. He made his club debut over the weekend starting at CB away to Stenungsunds, with Dan Keat and Owen Parker-Price also in the starting eleven (no Harry Edge or Dom Woolridge on this occasion). And it was Keat got the scoring going after quarter of an hour with a header, then OPP made it 2-0 ten minutes later and that was still the score at the half. Sweet as.

Then things went wrong as Pijnaker was subbed off in the 48th minute, some kind of injury there you’d have to assume, before Stenungsunds scored three times in the last half hour – Adam Bergholtz with the equaliser in the first minute of stoppage time and Pontus Olsson with the winner in the fifth minute of injury time. Mate, that’s a rough one. A win would have gotten them off the bottom of the ladder but at least they’re competing better these days. 

First Team Squad
1.3K
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1.1K
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over 5 years

This really is a weird scenario. Whilst getting game time in "europe" it may be, it's the fourth tier swedish league and I doubt the experience they're getting is better than the handy prem.  I think it could be an interesting proposition, but these players are kidding themselves if it's going to do their career any good imo.

It's shark for the local club and their fans, and probably be shark for the players. If this Singh move happens, i'd be asking some serious questions if I was an Ole player.

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
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about 17 years

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but how are these players managing to get work permits?

WeeNix
390
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960
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over 10 years

do they even get paid to play 4th division? surely it isnt sustainable for the club unless they make div 1 in the next 3-5 years.

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

reg22 wrote:

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but how are these players managing to get work permits?

At the level they are playing in Sweden they are apparently allowed up to 9 imports

Torlandas ground holds 1500 max and everything I've seen its not that different to what they'd be playing here, doubt they'd be getting paid a lot, travel and accommodation - probably similar to what imports that come here get. As Ole's involved the players are probably working as coaches

While the standard is likely to be similar, its probably more the fact its easier to get scouts from European clubs to visit Torslanda (which is just outside Gothenburg) than it is to get them to Porirua that makes it attractive

Starting XI
480
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2.1K
·
over 14 years

Work permits are different to league rules, of course.

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

zonknz wrote:

Work permits are different to league rules, of course.

true, if the kids have EU passports then theres no problem (well until the UK leave if thats where their passport is from) otherwise they can get working holiday visas in Sweden

Working holiday visa for young people

Certain countries have agreements with Sweden under which 18–30-year-olds can live in Sweden for a holiday for up to a year. You are allowed to work during the period spent in Sweden.

The purpose of a working holiday is that people between 18 and 30 years old will have the opportunity to, among other things, appreciate the culture and general way of life in Sweden. During the period spent in Sweden you are allowed to work.

Employment can be temporary and you do not need a job offer when applying for a permit. You can look for a job after coming to Sweden.

In order to obtain a working holiday permit, you must

  • be a citizen of Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Hong Kong, New Zealand, South Korea or Uruguay
  • be 18–30 years old
  • have a valid passport
  • have at least SEK 15,000 so that you can support yourself initially in Sweden (approx $2500 NZ)
  • have a return ticket or enough money to buy one
  • have a comprehensive health insurance policy that covers health and medical care in Sweden (unless you are a citizen of Australia)
  • not bring any children with you.

The different agreements clarify what applies regarding health insurance for each country.

Trialist
1
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1
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almost 5 years

At the level they are playing in Sweden they are apparently allowed up to 9 imports

Torlandas ground holds 1500 max and everything I've seen its not that different to what they'd be playing here, doubt they'd be getting paid a lot, travel and accommodation - probably similar to what imports that come here get. As Ole's involved the players are probably working as coaches

While the standard is likely to be similar, its probably more the fact its easier to get scouts from European clubs to visit Torslanda (which is just outside Gothenburg) than it is to get them to Porirua that makes it attractive

There is not huge money in Swedish football. As a guide from one source, I know of 2 x Superettan (2nd Tier) clubs currently looking for a left/right winger & Central attacking midfielder offering €1800 & €2500/month. (CAM gig includes accommodation). A 2nd Division club (4th tier like Torslanda) is looking for a striker at €150/month (accommodation not included).

First Team Squad
2.9K
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1.9K
·
over 6 years

reg22 wrote:

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but how are these players managing to get work permits?

dunno about the rest but Nando has a Dutch passport so its easy for him to play in Europe
Starting XI
6.7K
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4.5K
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over 9 years

Had a 3-1 win overnight against Vänersborgs IF - their second of the season. 

Haven't been able to locate a starting line-up or goal scorers - Their Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and even their website seem to work in their own time, which is a bit frustrating.

Can assume there were at least a couple of kiwi's in the starting XI though.

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