Starting XI
550
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2.4K
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over 14 years

It was good to see us finish stronger at the end instead of playing for the draw like Aus.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

Shameless self promotion, but relevant to topics discussed in this thread.

Early retirement
3.1K
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34K
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almost 17 years
GK
Phoenix Academy
100
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410
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over 10 years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPC-gvrW8og

Wow. The width of attack, the speed and working hard off the ball; I haven't seen a Kiwi side work this well against Aussie opposition before. This could be a great group of players going forward.

If Singh could go into that midfield - who would he replace?

A great problem to have.

RR
·
Bossi Insider
9.2K
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33K
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over 15 years

GK wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPC-gvrW8og

Wow. The width of attack, the speed and working hard off the ball; I haven't seen a Kiwi side work this well against Aussie opposition before. This could be a great group of players going forward.

If Singh could go into that midfield - who would he replace?

A great problem to have.

Andrew Voerman came up with a squad of eligible players to pick from

Tough ask for Des trimming that to 15 players (with 3 overage players to be added into the 18 man squad)

First Team Squad
2K
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1.3K
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over 5 years

RR wrote:

GK wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPC-gvrW8og

Wow. The width of attack, the speed and working hard off the ball; I haven't seen a Kiwi side work this well against Aussie opposition before. This could be a great group of players going forward.

If Singh could go into that midfield - who would he replace?

A great problem to have.

Andrew Voerman came up with a squad of eligible players to pick from

Tough ask for Des trimming that to 15 players (with 3 overage players to be added into the 18 man squad)

GK: Would, Tracey?

DEF: Billingsley, Elliott, Stranger, Pijnaker, Cacace, McGarry, Reid

MID: Bell, Stensness, Lewis, Singh, Just, Thomas 

ATT: Waine, McCowatt, Rogerson, Wood

something close to this would be pretty good.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

It's worth nothing that unlike in 2012, the last time New Zealand took part in the men's Olympic tournament, clubs are under no obligation to release under-23 players for Tokyo 2020.

It's also worth nothing that the OFC Nations Cup will be held earlier in the (European) summer, which will throw a spanner in the works for A, over-age players and B, under-23 players also in the All Whites frame, especially those at European clubs and American clubs (those at A-League clubs, who have an endless off-season, not so much).

Edit: For the sake of absolute accuracy, Fifa hasn't said actually said anything re: release of players for 2020. But in 2016 it was 'please release them because it's cool, but you don't *have* to'. In 2012 it was 'you have to.'. 

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

Edit: For the sake of absolute accuracy, Fifa hasn't said actually said anything re: release of players for 2020. But in 2016 it was 'please release them because it's cool, but you don't *have* to'. In 2012 it was 'you have to.'. 

Are you sure of that? Generally speaking there's no obligation on clubs to release players for any age-group tournaments, including the Olympics, why was 2012 different?

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

el grapadura wrote:

Edit: For the sake of absolute accuracy, Fifa hasn't said actually said anything re: release of players for 2020. But in 2016 it was 'please release them because it's cool, but you don't *have* to'. In 2012 it was 'you have to.'. 

Are you sure of that? Generally speaking there's no obligation on clubs to release players for any age-group tournaments, including the Olympics, why was 2012 different?

https://global.espn.com/football/story/1042541/fifa-rule-clubs-must-release-players-for-olympics?src=com and many similar reports.

This letter from 2008 suggests Fifa always intended that to be the position: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/1153-releaseofplayersforthemen%E2%80%99solympicfootballtournamentbeijing2008_58691.pdf

There was later a shark-storm in 2008 about Messi (under-23 at the time). The court of arbitration for sport ruled Barcelona didn't have to release him because Fifa didn't list the Olympics in their international tournament calendar.

It appears that was what prompted Fifa to come out and make things black and white in 2012.

Not sure what had changed by 2016 (https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/who-we-are/news/fifa-executive-vows-to-improve-governance-and-boost-female-participati-2696406). My guess would be pressure/lobbying from European clubs.

As I noted with the edit, Fifa might very well come out and say it's back to the old ways for 2020, but I doubt it.

Edit: I don't think it's *that* big a deal – but the likes of Bayern and Willem would probably not be too pleased having Singh/Woud late starting their off seasons with the Nations Cup then away during pre-season for the Olympics, so might force them to choose one or the other.

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

el grapadura wrote:

Edit: For the sake of absolute accuracy, Fifa hasn't said actually said anything re: release of players for 2020. But in 2016 it was 'please release them because it's cool, but you don't *have* to'. In 2012 it was 'you have to.'. 

Are you sure of that? Generally speaking there's no obligation on clubs to release players for any age-group tournaments, including the Olympics, why was 2012 different?

https://global.espn.com/football/story/1042541/fifa-rule-clubs-must-release-players-for-olympics?src=com and many similar reports.

This letter from 2008 suggests Fifa always intended that to be the position: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/1153-releaseofplayersforthemen%E2%80%99solympicfootballtournamentbeijing2008_58691.pdf

There was later a shark-storm in 2008 about Messi (under-23 at the time). The court of arbitration for sport ruled Barcelona didn't have to release him because Fifa didn't list the Olympics in their international tournament calendar.

It appears that was what prompted Fifa to come out and make things black and white in 2012.

Not sure what had changed by 2016 (https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/who-we-are/news/fifa-executive-vows-to-improve-governance-and-boost-female-participati-2696406). My guess would be pressure/lobbying from European clubs.

As I noted with the edit, Fifa might very well come out and say it's back to the old ways for 2020, but I doubt it.

Interesting, I remember the Messi case. And coincidentally, the international match windows have remained applicable solely for A internationals, which the Olympics clearly aren't. Maybe that was changed in the calendar for 2012? The regulations for the 2012 Olympic tournament don't say anything about clubs having to release players for it.

Getting paid to be here
700
·
970
·
over 6 years

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Edit: For the sake of absolute accuracy, Fifa hasn't said actually said anything re: release of players for 2020. But in 2016 it was 'please release them because it's cool, but you don't *have* to'. In 2012 it was 'you have to.'. 

Are you sure of that? Generally speaking there's no obligation on clubs to release players for any age-group tournaments, including the Olympics, why was 2012 different?

https://global.espn.com/football/story/1042541/fifa-rule-clubs-must-release-players-for-olympics?src=com and many similar reports.

This letter from 2008 suggests Fifa always intended that to be the position: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/1153-releaseofplayersforthemen%E2%80%99solympicfootballtournamentbeijing2008_58691.pdf

There was later a shark-storm in 2008 about Messi (under-23 at the time). The court of arbitration for sport ruled Barcelona didn't have to release him because Fifa didn't list the Olympics in their international tournament calendar.

It appears that was what prompted Fifa to come out and make things black and white in 2012.

Not sure what had changed by 2016 (https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/who-we-are/news/fifa-executive-vows-to-improve-governance-and-boost-female-participati-2696406). My guess would be pressure/lobbying from European clubs.

As I noted with the edit, Fifa might very well come out and say it's back to the old ways for 2020, but I doubt it.

Interesting, I remember the Messi case. And coincidentally, the international match windows have remained applicable solely for A internationals, which the Olympics clearly aren't. Maybe that was changed in the calendar for 2012? The regulations for the 2012 Olympic tournament don't say anything about clubs having to release players for it.

"international match windows have remained applicable solely for A internationals".

I don't believe that's the case.

Fifa says...

A: Clubs are obliged to release their registered players to the representative teams of the country for which the player is eligible to play on the basis of his nationality if they are called up by the association concerned. Any agreement between a player and a club to the contrary is prohibited.

B: "The release of players under the terms of paragraph 1 of this article is mandatory for all international windows listed in the international match calendar (cf. paragraphs 3 and 4 below) as well as for the final competitions of the FIFA World Cup™, the FIFA Confederations Cup and the championships for “A” representative teams of the confederations, subject to the relevant association being a member of the organising confederation".

The specification of "championships for 'A' representative teams" in the second paragraph suggests they would have used "'A' representative teams" elsewhere if that was the intent. 

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

You need to read paragraph 6 of those regulations. 

The other point is also that the International Match Calendar specifically states that it is for A internationals. 

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

el grapadura wrote:

You need to read paragraph 6 of those regulations. 

The other point is also that the International Match Calendar specifically states that it is for A internationals. 

Not sure what you mean re: paragraph 6? ("It is not compulsory to release players outside an international window or outside the final competitions (as per paragraph 2 above) included in the international match calendar. It is not compulsory to release the same player for more than one “A” representative team final competition per year. Exceptions to this rule can be established by the FIFA Council for the FIFA Confederations Cup only.")

But to the second point, touché. Easy to miss that detail, but that would explain what I was failing to grasp in a recent conversation I had with someone.

Guess NZF got lucky that only Torslanda (and a couple of colleges) said no (and even then, belatedly) with the recent under-23s matches.

I'd always thought that was the case (that they only applied to "A' matches) before I started looking closely in recent weeks. Obviously not close enough though...

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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over 16 years

el grapadura wrote:

You need to read paragraph 6 of those regulations. 

The other point is also that the International Match Calendar specifically states that it is for A internationals. 

Not sure what you mean re: paragraph 6? ("It is not compulsory to release players outside an international window or outside the final competitions (as per paragraph 2 above) included in the international match calendar. It is not compulsory to release the same player for more than one “A” representative team final competition per year. Exceptions to this rule can be established by the FIFA Council for the FIFA Confederations Cup only.")

But to the second point, touché. Easy to miss that detail, but that would explain what I was failing to grasp in a recent conversation I had with someone.

Guess NZF got lucky that only Torslanda (and a couple of colleges) said no (and even then, belatedly) with the recent under-23s matches.

I'd always thought that was the case (that they only applied to "A' matches) before I started looking closely in recent weeks. Obviously not close enough though...

The reason I mentioned para 6 is that it shows that the 'obligation' in para 1 is not absolute (i.e. para 1 is the guiding principle that is further refined by stipulations in paras 2 and 6).

But anyway, your comments about 2012 Olympics really intrigued me, and I found this article from 2012 (and which applied for the international calendar from 2014 onwards) which mentions that one of the principles would be that Olympic and youth tournaments aren't included in the international calendar:

https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/who-we-are/news/international-match-calendar-major-step-made-towards-final-agreement-1594531

Starting XI
1.5K
·
4.9K
·
over 15 years

RR wrote:

GK wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPC-gvrW8og

Wow. The width of attack, the speed and working hard off the ball; I haven't seen a Kiwi side work this well against Aussie opposition before. This could be a great group of players going forward.

If Singh could go into that midfield - who would he replace?

A great problem to have.

Andrew Voerman came up with a squad of eligible players to pick from

A very talented group of players with many already at professional clubs.

Hard to compare with different eras to say definitively if this would be our best group of youth players ever.

Probably our strongest in terms of depth in all positions.

We didn't have a national u-23 side until the Olympics switched to being an u-23 tournament from 1992.

Prior to that we only had u-20 and u-17 national sides (or u19 and u-16 for qualifying tournament purposes)

I'd say that our u-20 national team of 1980-81 that performed exceptionally well in qualifying matches for the FIFA u-20 World Cup was also a very good side.

It contained some of our best future All Whites like Wynton Rufer, Ceri Evans and Malcolm Dunford.

In ordinary circumstances, they would have qualified for the 1981 FIFA u-20 World Cup held in Australia.

NZ won the Oceania qualifying tournament - with the Aussies still taking part despite hosting the finals, wanting the extra preparation for their team.

It was the only time we ever beat the Aussies to win the Oceania qualifying at youth level:

 http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz-u20-intres.html#80

1980 Oceania U-20 World Cup Qualifiers:

Dec 7, (in Fiji) Fiji 2-2 New Zealand (? - Malcolm Dunford, Wynton Rufer) 

Dec 9, (in Fiji) Papua New Guinea 0-5 New Zealand (Wynton Rufer 2, Ceri Evans, F Phelan, J van Helden)

Dec 13, (in Fiji) Australia 0-2 New Zealand (F Phelan 2) 

But, oh no....FIFA made us then enter a second qualifying tournament with Israel......and bloody Argentina !!!

And all the games were played in bloody Buenos Aires....

We despatched Israel comfortably - but Argentina in 1981?

They would have had players who went on to win the senior World Cup in 1986 and make the final in 1990.

U-20 World Cup Qualifiers Second Stage:

Mar 18, Buenos Aires: Israel 0-0 New Zealand

Mar 22, Buenos Aires: Argentina 1-0 New Zealand 

Mar 25, Buenos Aires: Israel 1-2 New Zealand (Wynton Rufer 2)

Mar 27, Buenos Aires: Argentina 3-0 New Zealand

Still, those weren't bad results against Argentina even, considering their strength in 1981 and the state of our development with no professional clubs or players and limited youth development pathways.

Our 1996 side with Hay, Elliott, Vicelich, Burton, Sean Fallon, Che Bunce and Mark Foy was pretty good too but still outclassed in qualifying by the Aussies:

https://www.ultimatenzsoccer.com/NZRepSoccer/id158.htm

Starting XI
1.5K
·
4.9K
·
over 15 years

I missed the live broadcast vs. the Olyroos on Monday night but am happy to have just discovered the whole match is on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7PK2HuMmIY

Lineups etc. from about 8 mins in.

Am just settling in to watch on a wet Christchurch Saturday....

GK
Phoenix Academy
100
·
410
·
over 10 years

Big Pete 65 wrote:

I missed the live broadcast vs. the Olyroos on Monday night but am happy to have just discovered the whole match is on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7PK2HuMmIY

Lineups etc. from about 8 mins in.

Am just settling in to watch on a wet Christchurch Saturday....

That's the match I watched Pete and was so impressed with

- sure we had a few defensive frailties - and I like Conor Tracey - but wow the back passes 

- it was the inter-play that was great

- hopefully they can replicate this team pattern in Island conditions and in knock out competition when the heat is literally on. 

Starting XI
2.5K
·
2.4K
·
over 8 years

McCowatt has pulled out of the squad to try and secure a starting Nix spot, will be replaced by Jordan Spain.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/115847658/olywhites-make-late-change-as-callum-mccowatt-stays-with-wellington-phoenix

Early retirement
3.1K
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34K
·
almost 17 years

That available players list (posted earlier) doesn't even include Paulsen in the keepers who is very young but in the qualifying squad.

Getting paid to be here
700
·
970
·
over 6 years

Hard News wrote:

That available players list (posted earlier) doesn't even include Paulsen in the keepers who is very young but in the qualifying squad.

Doh.

WeeNix
880
·
960
·
about 7 years

Hard News wrote:

That available players list (posted earlier) doesn't even include Paulsen in the keepers who is very young but in the qualifying squad.

That list is a subset, making the Tokyo 2020 Short List of Athletes. The NZ Olympic Committee also have Tokyo 2020 Long List of Athletes


Trialist
0
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2
·
almost 6 years

Is there a livestream or TV coverage of the games in Fiji this coming week?

Marquee
3.7K
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5.4K
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over 11 years

yes. Look on the NZF Facebook page for it.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
·
over 6 years
Starting XI
1.8K
·
4.1K
·
about 17 years

thought we did ok when the samoans tired and we started moving the ball quicker. otherwise, we really plodded through this one

Early retirement
3.1K
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34K
·
almost 17 years

The goal we conceded was not pretty watching for anyone involved.

Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years

oh mate, I nearly fell off my chair laughing

people flying everywhere (but where they needed to be)!

Early retirement
3.1K
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34K
·
almost 17 years

1-0 up early vs American Samoa. Clayton Lewis with the goal.

Starting XI
2.5K
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2.4K
·
over 8 years

2-0, Rogerson with a tap in following a poor American Samoa clearing free kick.

3-0, Oli Whyte scores for the Oly Whites again.

4-0, a second from Lewis. Same as the first - outside the box into bottom left corner.

5-0, Bevan heads in from close range after keeper parries a shot

6-0, tap in for Waine after NZ build from the back. ASA starting to fall apart now.

7-0, Dylan de Jong heads in a Bevan cross

8-0, Waine beats the keeper to a Billingsley cross

Missed the 9th, but now 10-0. Both to Bevan for his hat-trick.

11-0, Bevan gets a 4th

12-0, Bevan's 5th

Overseas
610
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2.7K
·
over 16 years

5-0 now... here's the live stream

WeeNix
880
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960
·
about 7 years

It doesn't matter in the context of this game at 9-0 now, but bit concerned at the decisions of some. Eg. Player coming through facing goal, but guy with back to goal and ball running away opts to. Turn and take the hard option to score.

I'd like to see players always making right decisions regardless of competition.

Make that 10-0...I need to learn to type faster

Starting XI
550
·
2.4K
·
over 14 years

12-0 gotta be happy with that.

Getting paid to be here
700
·
970
·
over 6 years

"Quali Whites" is v v good.

WeeNix
390
·
900
·
almost 11 years

Royz wrote:

12-0 gotta be happy with that.

Who.should be happy American Samoa or NZ???

WeeNix
880
·
960
·
about 7 years

good grief. 30 seconds.

That was basic schoolboy mistake

0-1

WeeNix
880
·
960
·
about 7 years

1-1 36'

Clayton Lewis

WeeNix
880
·
960
·
about 7 years

2-1 39'

Myer Bevan

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