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Marquee
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 You cant possibly think he is going to be given 3 years if this level of performance keeps up.

tradition and history
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Ryan54 wrote:

Sacking Ole would be silly; talking about it is also silly. He has moved the club forward and he can move the club forward even more. Only when we think he can't move the club forward any more should we sack him. The club needed a refresh. It didn't need someone to sign Ibrahimovic and limp into the top 4.


Lukaku didn't fit the style Ole wanted to play. I'm glad he has gone. At some point we will need to sign a striker who fits our playing style and is committed. Until that happens no point in signing someone random. Realistically, it will be 3 seasons before this squad can compete for a title anyway.

Realistically, half of this squad are not good enough to compete for the title. We will need to have a lot better players  than what we have right now.

I never mentioned sacking Ole as nothing can change until we do what I have already said.

Ballane is quite right though, Utd will not keep him for 3 years if things don't improve. 

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Leggy wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

Sacking Ole would be silly; talking about it is also silly. He has moved the club forward and he can move the club forward even more. Only when we think he can't move the club forward any more should we sack him. The club needed a refresh. It didn't need someone to sign Ibrahimovic and limp into the top 4.


Lukaku didn't fit the style Ole wanted to play. I'm glad he has gone. At some point we will need to sign a striker who fits our playing style and is committed. Until that happens no point in signing someone random. Realistically, it will be 3 seasons before this squad can compete for a title anyway.

Realistically, half of this squad are not good enough to compete for the title. We will need to have a lot better players  than what we have right now.

I never mentioned sacking Ole as nothing can change until we do what I have already said.

Ballane is quite right though, Utd will not keep him for 3 years if things don't improve. 

I'm not saying they should keep him for 3 years. The point is, winning the title has to be the goal. the team needs to move forwards and sometimes you have to go backwards first. If we have to get rid of players like Lukaku who don't fit the way we want to play, so be it. Ole is the first manager to have success in the transfer window - our 3 best players this season have been the three he signed. If he is good at identifying talent, it would seem dumb to put him to pasture. Let him build a good squad. If he can't win the league with it, sack him then. At least whoever comes in will have a good chance.

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Good game actually, Rashford's instant response was incredibly refreshing.

Can't believe I'm saying it but... Fred had a good game.

I'm not surprised that Rashford, Martial, and James all look better when they have a competent midfield around them.

Top priority is a world class #10.

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20 Legend wrote:

Good game actually, Rashford's instant response was incredibly refreshing.

Can't believe I'm saying it but... Fred had a good game.

I'm not surprised that Rashford, Martial, and James all look better when they have a competent midfield around them.

Top priority is a world class #10.

Would be great if we could keep Pogba by telling him he will play in that #10 role, with 2 of McTominay, Fred and (Matic improvement). Andreas is just not quite at the level, or looking like he will get to the level we need. Get Andreas' mindset on Pogba's ability and we would be set.

Shaw should be worried about Williams' performances and his injury count mounting up. 

Pretty happy with how things are progressing

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20 Legend wrote:

Good game actually, Rashford's instant response was incredibly refreshing.

Can't believe I'm saying it but... Fred had a good game.

I'm not surprised that Rashford, Martial, and James all look better when they have a competent midfield around them.

Top priority is a world class #10.

IMO, we need a world class striker and defensive midfielder. Then we need a few more players for depth. Our world class number 10 should be Pogba. Ole has used him too deep and deserves criticism for that.

WeeNix
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Ryan54 wrote:
20 Legend wrote:

Good game actually, Rashford's instant response was incredibly refreshing.

Can't believe I'm saying it but... Fred had a good game.

I'm not surprised that Rashford, Martial, and James all look better when they have a competent midfield around them.

Top priority is a world class #10.

IMO, we need a world class striker and defensive midfielder. Then we need a few more players for depth. Our world class number 10 should be Pogba. Ole has used him too deep and deserves criticism for that.

Ndidi and Vardy.

And then most of the rest of the Leicester squad!

Phoenix Academy
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Encouraging to see a little bit of fight and creativity after 70 dire minutes! Have to give Ole some credit and say that his changes had some effect but where we dropped those points was him bringing Axel on for Martial at 3-2. At that point we were all over them, they were struggling to play out and they were chasing the game. It looked only a matter of time before we scored a fourth. And then he goes and brings a defender on and we sit back and do exactly the opposite of what we should have been doing. Criminal. 

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In hindsight, bringing Tuanzebe on wasn't the right move. But at the time I could understand it - Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, James, and Lingard were all on the pitch. Fred (of all people) was the only who looked remotely like a CM.

Aside from our stunning 7 minutes, the other 80 was dire. But I want to defend Ole a bit:

Going into this game we had virtually no other options. Maybe we could have started with a midfield 3 - but that would've meant starting Lingard or Mata or taking a big risk on the likes of Garner or Gomes.

Jones botched up big time, and as long as injuries don't screw us over might have played his last game. Even once we swapped him for Lingard we looked better but still not flash until of course we brought Greenwood on and went for it.

People are running around shouting Poch in, but I don't think Poch would've gone for it like that. I'm also think he would've made the same change for Tuanzebe at 3-2 as well.

At the end of the day, you can argue the nuances is managers and tactics until you're blue in the face. The fact is that we have a midfield that 1 for 1 is probably lesser to most teams in the league.

Phoenix Academy
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Don't disagree with any of your points. Will be interesting to see how we line up against Astana. Our squad is wafer thin, especially in midfield. Still can't believe we only beat them 1-0 at Old Trafford.

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Wow! Shocked but in a very, very pleasant way at the squad we've named for Astana. Gonna be some very large shirt numbers out there!

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Wait, that's the whole squad! Holy wow.

Check out this image of Max Taylor during his chemo therapy for cancer last year:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt6Tq6LDd20/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Absolutley amazing stuff for him

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A real struggle this morning. Frustrating to draw but credit to Villa for making it tough as they created a large gap between our front three and the midfield. 

Cant blame Ole for having to continue with a midfield of Fred - Pereira - Mata as they are the only ones fit at the moment and the youthfulness of the team means we have to accept inconsistency. 

Am really getting tired of the Ole out chat, the squad is not great and coupled with injuries to Pogba, McTominay and Bailly (who you would say are of starter quality) we look very thin. 

Tough week ahead with Spurs then City. 

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Tekkers wrote:

A real struggle this morning. Frustrating to draw but credit to Villa for making it tough as they created a large gap between our front three and the midfield. 

Cant blame Ole for having to continue with a midfield of Fred - Pereira - Mata as they are the only ones fit at the moment and the youthfulness of the team means we have to accept inconsistency. 

Am really getting tired of the Ole out chat, the squad is not great and coupled with injuries to Pogba, McTominay and Bailly (who you would say are of starter quality) we look very thin. 

Tough week ahead with Spurs then City. 

The Ole out chat is getting really tiresome. Fred, Pereira, and Mata are absolute dire. That is a relegation quality midfield. Most other starting midfielders in the league given the time Fred gets given on the edge of the box puts the ball in the top corner 20% of the time.... or at least draws a save.

Reflecting on today's result, Grealish scores a strike of a lifetime and our 19 year-old right back doesn't get up fast enough.

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Thought Fred was actually OK today. Don't read that as me saying he deserves to be starting for Manchester United, but thought he was far from the biggest problem out there. Thought his workrate was good and his general passing was tidy enough. Completely agree that he is wasteful in the final third. Think he definitely suits sitting a bit deeper as a playmaker. Pereira was awful again and shouldn't be anywhere near the United squad. Was very annoyed that Levitt wasn't even on the bench - arguably a huge ask to throw him in against Villa but he was highly impressive in Europe midweek and couldn't do worse than Pereira. 

Defensively we look very frail. Maguire still hasn't proved he's an 80 million quid defender and thought AWB had his worst game in a United shirt. 

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20 Legend wrote:
Tekkers wrote:

A real struggle this morning. Frustrating to draw but credit to Villa for making it tough as they created a large gap between our front three and the midfield. 

Cant blame Ole for having to continue with a midfield of Fred - Pereira - Mata as they are the only ones fit at the moment and the youthfulness of the team means we have to accept inconsistency. 

Am really getting tired of the Ole out chat, the squad is not great and coupled with injuries to Pogba, McTominay and Bailly (who you would say are of starter quality) we look very thin. 

Tough week ahead with Spurs then City. 

The Ole out chat is getting really tiresome. Fred, Pereira, and Mata are absolute dire. That is a relegation quality midfield. Most other starting midfielders in the league given the time Fred gets given on the edge of the box puts the ball in the top corner 20% of the time.... or at least draws a save.

Reflecting on today's result, Grealish scores a strike of a lifetime and our 19 year-old right back doesn't get up fast enough.

Pereira has been given more than a decent chance to impress and unfortunately is just not at a level we need. Same with Jones. Not even at a squad player level. I would say that Mata, Lingard, Fred are good enough to have as rotation players, but we are relying on them to perform as starters too often. Shaw is really at a crossroads and his attitude will decide if he comes good or not. Or his injury prone body will. 

If we keep selling at the bottom and buying at the top, while bringing McTominay, Rashford, Martial, James, Williams and even AWB through, we have the opportunity to get back to the top. But you really need to keep the manager consistent at a time like this. 

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I'm glad to read some sense here. Some other United forums are just poison.

The season is a write-off. The only chance of anything worth mentioning is the Europa League. I sure do hope the club can stick with its guns and keep Ole to at least summer. If we get a new manager now the last 6 months will be thrown in the bin and we'll have to start it all again.

tradition and history
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20 Legend wrote:

I'm glad to read some sense here. Some other United forums are just poison.

The season is a write-off. The only chance of anything worth mentioning is the Europa League. I sure do hope the club can stick with its guns and keep Ole to at least summer. If we get a new manager now the last 6 months will be thrown in the bin and we'll have to start it all again.

So how long do you give him? A new manager will still have the same problems because the squad is piss poor. However, it does not work like that. if he does not get results he will be gone. Simple.

As much chance of winning Europa or anything as I have of winning 1st division lotto.

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Leggy wrote:
20 Legend wrote:

I'm glad to read some sense here. Some other United forums are just poison.

The season is a write-off. The only chance of anything worth mentioning is the Europa League. I sure do hope the club can stick with its guns and keep Ole to at least summer. If we get a new manager now the last 6 months will be thrown in the bin and we'll have to start it all again.

So how long do you give him? A new manager will still have the same problems because the squad is piss poor. However, it does not work like that. if he does not get results he will be gone. Simple.

As much chance of winning Europa or anything as I have of winning 1st division lotto.

I give him until he is underachieving with a team that he had helped to shape. The best 11 is not better than any other in the big six, nor Leicester, let alone having the squad to cope with injuries to Pogba, McTominay, Bailly. So getting top 6 would be par / slightly above what you would expect from this team. 

In saying that, the youthfulness of the team is promising and I would like to think they could get reasonably far in the Europa. It my hurt the league position in doing so, but when that is already shot then why not?

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tradition and history
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Ole would probably go alright in DoF role we have heard so much about. Seems to be really efficient and calculated in who he brings in and cuts but gets found out tactically as a manager.

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Out of interesting - talking about how tactically naive Ole is - what games would you have lined up different, and how?

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20 Legend wrote:

Out of interesting - talking about how tactically naive Ole is - what games would you have lined up different, and how?

First and foremost, I think people are wanting to think Ole is not up to the task and because of his lack of experience on the big stage, people are more inclined to think he is tactically naive or not up for it than to say that the players are simply not good enough. 

Fans question a lot of managers decisions, especially tactically, but mistakes or times when they disagree are not given the same weight as they are with Ole. 

Nevertheless, the examples used to 'show' that he is tactically naive are ones like:

  1. Playing Lingard instead of Mata against teams who just sit in or vice versa (did this more than once or twice but seems to have learnt now)
  2. Playing Pereira (gave him a chance, he didnt perform and now is only playing because 2 fit CMs)
  3. Playing Jones (with Fred and Pereira in CM, a back three was a good call so all three fit CBs played)
  4. Subbing Martial off for Tuanzebe before conceding to Sheff. (Had Rashford, Greenwood, James and Martial on the field at the time)
  5. Subbing Williams for Shaw (Williams on yellow, 19yo, gave Shaw a chance - no issue from me)
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You've justified all 5 of those positions pretty well, given the context of the situation at the time.

The reason I always ask is because I absolutely refute the idea that Ole is operating in isolation. Mike Phelan has won the Premier League (I think 3 times?) with United. And probably operated as the key tactical person in SAF's operation during that time.

I'm not saying they're tactical geniuses or anything but this idea of "naivety" is too simple. Pep would look just as, if not more, naive with this squad.

Phoenix Academy
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Apparently Martial is out of the Spurs game. Really don't think we can afford to have Rashford up front. I'd start Greenwood through the middle and keep Rashford on the left.

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20 Legend wrote:

You've justified all 5 of those positions pretty well, given the context of the situation at the time.

The reason I always ask is because I absolutely refute the idea that Ole is operating in isolation. Mike Phelan has won the Premier League (I think 3 times?) with United. And probably operated as the key tactical person in SAF's operation during that time.

I'm not saying they're tactical geniuses or anything but this idea of "naivety" is too simple. Pep would look just as, if not more, naive with this squad.

The issue is that most people can't see that context and would rather change manager than to be patient with the current team. 

100% there is a team involved and for sure Phelan has a lot of knowledge. I think he is more involved in the coaching than the tactics but usually they go together. 

Comparisons to other managers and teams are really pointless in my opinion. The closest you get is Arsenal now (only one change in manager so more consistency, but squad quality similar), and Liverpool when Klopp joined. At United, you have a squad restrictively built by 4 managers, with businessmen almost making the on field performances a lottery because they really dont need the squad to perform in order to make money. 

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Martial wrote:

Apparently Martial is out of the Spurs game. Really don't think we can afford to have Rashford up front. I'd start Greenwood through the middle and keep Rashford on the left.

I have a feeling that we will play 3-4-1-2 with James and Rashford as wide strikers and Lingard in the 10. As long as its Tuanzebe and not Jones, then it won't be a horror show. Unless both McTominay and Pogba dont play too, then we will be in real trouble. 

Will be interesting to see if Jose gets Spurs to sit in (restricts our pace but doesnt suit Spurs as well) or presses higher (suits Spurs with their better players but also suits us better). Given United are at home youd think Spurs will sit in a low block. Which makes a case for Mata playing

Phoenix Academy
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Already interesting team selections (again?) with Greenwood starting up top, Young at LB (Williams suspended) and Lingard preferred but at least McTominay is back. 

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Martial wrote:

That'll do lads. Suddenly up to 6th.

Take that. Decent 60min performance and a battle to get through the last half hour. 

Rashford running at Aurier was great to watch. Lingard's energy was much needed, McTominay's positioning was vital and Fred had another good all round performance. 

Jose went with the low block tactic, but the fullbacks were isolated too often. Not sure if Spurs suit a style with lots of crosses. 

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Damn we needed that. Refreshing that we fully deserved to win as well. First half was total class.

Fred had a decent game.

McTominay's return crucial. Can't wait till Pogba is back. Throw in a top number 10 and this team starts to feel wayyyy different.

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Martial wrote:

Apparently Martial is out of the Spurs game. Really don't think we can afford to have Rashford up front. I'd start Greenwood through the middle and keep Rashford on the left.

Feel this was key.

Legend
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That's a great result for you fellas. Shot in the arm.

Always good to beat Mourinho too :)

Legend
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kinda pointed comment by Ole when talking about McTominay and what his qualities are

LG
Legend
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Special result for the special one. And that United first goal was very special. a great goal from a difficult angle. Well done.

One in a million
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Wait, is that "tactically naive" Ole Gunnar Solskjaer beating Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola in the same week?

Also fair play to Fred who has decided he can actually play football.

Lawyerish
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by all accounts he was a gone burger right about now 

Two games and it looks like he's saved his job

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What a win that was this morning. Wan-Bissaka an absolute wall. Fred and McTominay brilliant and Rashford extremely lively. Now we've got to find a way to win these games where we dominate possession! Chuffed for Ole.

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