Trialist
19
·
100
·
over 10 years

el grapadura wrote:

mrsmiis wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Feverish wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Instead of there being 11 starting places, five bench places, and seven squad places in Canterbury and in Otago – as is the case with the existing setup, Canterbury United, and Southern United, making time for youngsters very hard to come by – there are now 88 and 40 in Canterbury and 88 and 40 in Otago.

This is precisely why the new system is such a terrible idea. Let's get as much donkey into the National League, and get dumb clubs (we all know who I'm talking about) to pay them sharkloads whike they're at it. Sorru, I mean ask them to do a lot of 'coaching'.

The sad reality is that there's probably only 11-12 clubs in the country that can actually make a fist of it, so basically the whole system's been changed just to give Olympic, Birko, or Wests a chance to be in the national league.

11>8

I can get up over 20 pretty quickly...

Interested to hear who they are. There's a maximum of 5-6 clubs who can do this across Central and Mainland Leagues (and including the South in that too). So there are 15+ clubs in the Northern region who can do this? I find that extremely difficult to believe. 

Clarify what you mean by 'do this' first... but I have 20 clubs that I generally would consider to be what NZF is looking for from a club – or of the size that makes them able to become what NZF is looking for rather swiftly.

Firstly, I'm amazed that you think that NZF actually knows what they want from the clubs under this system, but nevermind.

What I mean is, clubs that have strategic and financial capability and capacity to sustainably participate in the new National League system long-term.

On the pitch, I think NZF wants clubs that have teams right down through all the 11-a-side grades and that bring players through into their first team from within their own ranks.

I'll offer this list (which also takes into account off-the-pitch factors) of 22 clubs as a starting point

Auckland City/Central United

Auckland United

Birkenhead United

Eastern Suburbs

Manukau United

Northern Rovers

West Coast Rangers

Western Springs

Hamilton Wanderers

Melville United

Napier City Rovers

Wairarapa United

Lower Hutt City

Miramar Rangers

North Wellington

Wellington Olympic

Western Suburbs

Nelson Suburbs

Cashmere Technical

Christchurch United

Nomads United

South City Royals

while admitting I don't know much about the ins and outs of Otago clubs, so may have done some an injustice by leaving them off (and that I may be being too cautious in Canterbury – I'd expect Coastal Spirit and Ferrymead Bays to contest the qualification spots down there and I'd say Selwyn United has solid structures in place).

Edit: Will add that not all of these clubs are necessary there as things stand, some are, some aren't that far away, some need a mindset shift.

I'll stay away from Northern and South Island clubs, there are better placed people than ne to comment on that. Although I certainly have strong doubts about SI clubs outside of Christchurch, the Dunedin merger notwithstanding.

But the Central League is really only 4 clubs, Miramar, Wests, NCR, and Olympic, but Olympic don't have a junior club so will  undoubtedly lean on their supporters to throw lots of cash at players.

Wairarapa, Lower Hutt, North Wellington? Forget about it. Not in our lifetimes.

Wairarapa = Paul Ifill Academy, support of an entire region

Lower Hutt = Nix

North Wellington has made major major moves in the past few years, plus Tasman links

Curious what your cutoff is for a league-ready club? NZF’s suggestion is vague at best

Wairarapa is a tiny region that naturally gravitates to Wellington, best players there will always end up in Wellington, and the only way they could compete for top spots in the Central League was when Keinzley was throwing silly money at Wellington players to get up there for the weekend and play. So unless he's prepared to do that again, they're not a factor at all.

Lower Hutt and the Nix? Having Nix take over a local club has been a bad thing for the local club, not a good thing. Just ask Wellington United, and check out where they are now.

For North Wellington, as I said above, they managed to get themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt just by being in the Central League. That's not exactly confidence-inspiring for their financial sustainability and strategic thinking. 

As for Tasman - so the region that couldn't survive in the current set-up can provide a base for both Nelson Suburbs AND North Wellington? Sure. That's likely.

Have heard Keinsley is indeed opening his wallet and paying silly money for players once again!!!  More than last time if you believe the numbers that are being mentioned.

Phoenix Academy
64
·
270
·
over 14 years

Roys town wrote:
Yep, we were discussing licensing clubs and that is only a start for costs for youth ages to play at the top level. One team in CHCH charges almost $3k plus costs for tournaments for their 13-17 year olds. These are going to be the players coming through the system (those that can afford to play), but that is another discussion altogether.

Is that the same club that is commonly understood to pay its first team coach $65k per season?
Starting XI
2K
·
4.7K
·
almost 17 years

I am looking forward to the new format. I think the club based format will allow players and fans to align much more with the teams than the franchise teams did. Player will be able to sign with those clubs and try to fight their way into the top teams, or be able to sign for competing clubs and try to knock off the name club. 
The glory days of the Gisborne Cities should not be forgotten, where a whole provincial area can be behind their team.
I look forward to a southern resurgence too, with the back of the likes of the Invercargill Licencing Trust.
Tauranga, in the BOP area where I currently live, has huge potential for a national league team, as it did back in the days of Mt Maunganui.

As a Waikato lad, I loved matches against The Mount back in the 90s. They had one of the best stadiums in the country, even hosting AW games. Be great for Tauranga to get back to the top table.

Marquee
1.7K
·
7.5K
·
almost 17 years

Mossimo wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

mrsmiis wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Feverish wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Instead of there being 11 starting places, five bench places, and seven squad places in Canterbury and in Otago – as is the case with the existing setup, Canterbury United, and Southern United, making time for youngsters very hard to come by – there are now 88 and 40 in Canterbury and 88 and 40 in Otago.

This is precisely why the new system is such a terrible idea. Let's get as much donkey into the National League, and get dumb clubs (we all know who I'm talking about) to pay them sharkloads whike they're at it. Sorru, I mean ask them to do a lot of 'coaching'.

The sad reality is that there's probably only 11-12 clubs in the country that can actually make a fist of it, so basically the whole system's been changed just to give Olympic, Birko, or Wests a chance to be in the national league.

11>8

I can get up over 20 pretty quickly...

Interested to hear who they are. There's a maximum of 5-6 clubs who can do this across Central and Mainland Leagues (and including the South in that too). So there are 15+ clubs in the Northern region who can do this? I find that extremely difficult to believe. 

Clarify what you mean by 'do this' first... but I have 20 clubs that I generally would consider to be what NZF is looking for from a club – or of the size that makes them able to become what NZF is looking for rather swiftly.

Firstly, I'm amazed that you think that NZF actually knows what they want from the clubs under this system, but nevermind.

What I mean is, clubs that have strategic and financial capability and capacity to sustainably participate in the new National League system long-term.

On the pitch, I think NZF wants clubs that have teams right down through all the 11-a-side grades and that bring players through into their first team from within their own ranks.

I'll offer this list (which also takes into account off-the-pitch factors) of 22 clubs as a starting point

Auckland City/Central United

Auckland United

Birkenhead United

Eastern Suburbs

Manukau United

Northern Rovers

West Coast Rangers

Western Springs

Hamilton Wanderers

Melville United

Napier City Rovers

Wairarapa United

Lower Hutt City

Miramar Rangers

North Wellington

Wellington Olympic

Western Suburbs

Nelson Suburbs

Cashmere Technical

Christchurch United

Nomads United

South City Royals

while admitting I don't know much about the ins and outs of Otago clubs, so may have done some an injustice by leaving them off (and that I may be being too cautious in Canterbury – I'd expect Coastal Spirit and Ferrymead Bays to contest the qualification spots down there and I'd say Selwyn United has solid structures in place).

Edit: Will add that not all of these clubs are necessary there as things stand, some are, some aren't that far away, some need a mindset shift.

I'll stay away from Northern and South Island clubs, there are better placed people than ne to comment on that. Although I certainly have strong doubts about SI clubs outside of Christchurch, the Dunedin merger notwithstanding.

But the Central League is really only 4 clubs, Miramar, Wests, NCR, and Olympic, but Olympic don't have a junior club so will  undoubtedly lean on their supporters to throw lots of cash at players.

Wairarapa, Lower Hutt, North Wellington? Forget about it. Not in our lifetimes.

Wairarapa = Paul Ifill Academy, support of an entire region

Lower Hutt = Nix

North Wellington has made major major moves in the past few years, plus Tasman links

Curious what your cutoff is for a league-ready club? NZF’s suggestion is vague at best

Wairarapa is a tiny region that naturally gravitates to Wellington, best players there will always end up in Wellington, and the only way they could compete for top spots in the Central League was when Keinzley was throwing silly money at Wellington players to get up there for the weekend and play. So unless he's prepared to do that again, they're not a factor at all.

Lower Hutt and the Nix? Having Nix take over a local club has been a bad thing for the local club, not a good thing. Just ask Wellington United, and check out where they are now.

For North Wellington, as I said above, they managed to get themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt just by being in the Central League. That's not exactly confidence-inspiring for their financial sustainability and strategic thinking. 

As for Tasman - so the region that couldn't survive in the current set-up can provide a base for both Nelson Suburbs AND North Wellington? Sure. That's likely.

Have heard Keinsley is indeed opening his wallet and paying silly money for players once again!!!  More than last time if you believe the numbers that are being mentioned.

He can't be, there is going to be limits on acceptable player reimbursements, so no way will clubs bankrupt themselves chasing national league glory, funded through pokies, pillaging junior funds, or well off benefactors causing the club to survive only at their whim.  Nope no way, not at all.

Trialist
19
·
100
·
over 10 years

aitkenmike wrote:

Mossimo wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

mrsmiis wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Feverish wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Instead of there being 11 starting places, five bench places, and seven squad places in Canterbury and in Otago – as is the case with the existing setup, Canterbury United, and Southern United, making time for youngsters very hard to come by – there are now 88 and 40 in Canterbury and 88 and 40 in Otago.

This is precisely why the new system is such a terrible idea. Let's get as much donkey into the National League, and get dumb clubs (we all know who I'm talking about) to pay them sharkloads whike they're at it. Sorru, I mean ask them to do a lot of 'coaching'.

The sad reality is that there's probably only 11-12 clubs in the country that can actually make a fist of it, so basically the whole system's been changed just to give Olympic, Birko, or Wests a chance to be in the national league.

11>8

I can get up over 20 pretty quickly...

Interested to hear who they are. There's a maximum of 5-6 clubs who can do this across Central and Mainland Leagues (and including the South in that too). So there are 15+ clubs in the Northern region who can do this? I find that extremely difficult to believe. 

Clarify what you mean by 'do this' first... but I have 20 clubs that I generally would consider to be what NZF is looking for from a club – or of the size that makes them able to become what NZF is looking for rather swiftly.

Firstly, I'm amazed that you think that NZF actually knows what they want from the clubs under this system, but nevermind.

What I mean is, clubs that have strategic and financial capability and capacity to sustainably participate in the new National League system long-term.

On the pitch, I think NZF wants clubs that have teams right down through all the 11-a-side grades and that bring players through into their first team from within their own ranks.

I'll offer this list (which also takes into account off-the-pitch factors) of 22 clubs as a starting point

Auckland City/Central United

Auckland United

Birkenhead United

Eastern Suburbs

Manukau United

Northern Rovers

West Coast Rangers

Western Springs

Hamilton Wanderers

Melville United

Napier City Rovers

Wairarapa United

Lower Hutt City

Miramar Rangers

North Wellington

Wellington Olympic

Western Suburbs

Nelson Suburbs

Cashmere Technical

Christchurch United

Nomads United

South City Royals

while admitting I don't know much about the ins and outs of Otago clubs, so may have done some an injustice by leaving them off (and that I may be being too cautious in Canterbury – I'd expect Coastal Spirit and Ferrymead Bays to contest the qualification spots down there and I'd say Selwyn United has solid structures in place).

Edit: Will add that not all of these clubs are necessary there as things stand, some are, some aren't that far away, some need a mindset shift.

I'll stay away from Northern and South Island clubs, there are better placed people than ne to comment on that. Although I certainly have strong doubts about SI clubs outside of Christchurch, the Dunedin merger notwithstanding.

But the Central League is really only 4 clubs, Miramar, Wests, NCR, and Olympic, but Olympic don't have a junior club so will  undoubtedly lean on their supporters to throw lots of cash at players.

Wairarapa, Lower Hutt, North Wellington? Forget about it. Not in our lifetimes.

Wairarapa = Paul Ifill Academy, support of an entire region

Lower Hutt = Nix

North Wellington has made major major moves in the past few years, plus Tasman links

Curious what your cutoff is for a league-ready club? NZF’s suggestion is vague at best

Wairarapa is a tiny region that naturally gravitates to Wellington, best players there will always end up in Wellington, and the only way they could compete for top spots in the Central League was when Keinzley was throwing silly money at Wellington players to get up there for the weekend and play. So unless he's prepared to do that again, they're not a factor at all.

Lower Hutt and the Nix? Having Nix take over a local club has been a bad thing for the local club, not a good thing. Just ask Wellington United, and check out where they are now.

For North Wellington, as I said above, they managed to get themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt just by being in the Central League. That's not exactly confidence-inspiring for their financial sustainability and strategic thinking. 

As for Tasman - so the region that couldn't survive in the current set-up can provide a base for both Nelson Suburbs AND North Wellington? Sure. That's likely.

Have heard Keinsley is indeed opening his wallet and paying silly money for players once again!!!  More than last time if you believe the numbers that are being mentioned.

He can't be, there is going to be limits on acceptable player reimbursements, so no way will clubs bankrupt themselves chasing national league glory, funded through pokies, pillaging junior funds, or well off benefactors causing the club to survive only at their whim.  Nope no way, not at all.

Lol

Where there is a will there is a way. Does the club have to pay them themselves?

LG
Legend
5.5K
·
23K
·
over 16 years

Mossimo wrote:

aitkenmike wrote:

Mossimo wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

mrsmiis wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Feverish wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Instead of there being 11 starting places, five bench places, and seven squad places in Canterbury and in Otago – as is the case with the existing setup, Canterbury United, and Southern United, making time for youngsters very hard to come by – there are now 88 and 40 in Canterbury and 88 and 40 in Otago.

This is precisely why the new system is such a terrible idea. Let's get as much donkey into the National League, and get dumb clubs (we all know who I'm talking about) to pay them sharkloads whike they're at it. Sorru, I mean ask them to do a lot of 'coaching'.

The sad reality is that there's probably only 11-12 clubs in the country that can actually make a fist of it, so basically the whole system's been changed just to give Olympic, Birko, or Wests a chance to be in the national league.

11>8

I can get up over 20 pretty quickly...

Interested to hear who they are. There's a maximum of 5-6 clubs who can do this across Central and Mainland Leagues (and including the South in that too). So there are 15+ clubs in the Northern region who can do this? I find that extremely difficult to believe. 

Clarify what you mean by 'do this' first... but I have 20 clubs that I generally would consider to be what NZF is looking for from a club – or of the size that makes them able to become what NZF is looking for rather swiftly.

Firstly, I'm amazed that you think that NZF actually knows what they want from the clubs under this system, but nevermind.

What I mean is, clubs that have strategic and financial capability and capacity to sustainably participate in the new National League system long-term.

On the pitch, I think NZF wants clubs that have teams right down through all the 11-a-side grades and that bring players through into their first team from within their own ranks.

I'll offer this list (which also takes into account off-the-pitch factors) of 22 clubs as a starting point

Auckland City/Central United

Auckland United

Birkenhead United

Eastern Suburbs

Manukau United

Northern Rovers

West Coast Rangers

Western Springs

Hamilton Wanderers

Melville United

Napier City Rovers

Wairarapa United

Lower Hutt City

Miramar Rangers

North Wellington

Wellington Olympic

Western Suburbs

Nelson Suburbs

Cashmere Technical

Christchurch United

Nomads United

South City Royals

while admitting I don't know much about the ins and outs of Otago clubs, so may have done some an injustice by leaving them off (and that I may be being too cautious in Canterbury – I'd expect Coastal Spirit and Ferrymead Bays to contest the qualification spots down there and I'd say Selwyn United has solid structures in place).

Edit: Will add that not all of these clubs are necessary there as things stand, some are, some aren't that far away, some need a mindset shift.

I'll stay away from Northern and South Island clubs, there are better placed people than ne to comment on that. Although I certainly have strong doubts about SI clubs outside of Christchurch, the Dunedin merger notwithstanding.

But the Central League is really only 4 clubs, Miramar, Wests, NCR, and Olympic, but Olympic don't have a junior club so will  undoubtedly lean on their supporters to throw lots of cash at players.

Wairarapa, Lower Hutt, North Wellington? Forget about it. Not in our lifetimes.

Wairarapa = Paul Ifill Academy, support of an entire region

Lower Hutt = Nix

North Wellington has made major major moves in the past few years, plus Tasman links

Curious what your cutoff is for a league-ready club? NZF’s suggestion is vague at best

Wairarapa is a tiny region that naturally gravitates to Wellington, best players there will always end up in Wellington, and the only way they could compete for top spots in the Central League was when Keinzley was throwing silly money at Wellington players to get up there for the weekend and play. So unless he's prepared to do that again, they're not a factor at all.

Lower Hutt and the Nix? Having Nix take over a local club has been a bad thing for the local club, not a good thing. Just ask Wellington United, and check out where they are now.

For North Wellington, as I said above, they managed to get themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt just by being in the Central League. That's not exactly confidence-inspiring for their financial sustainability and strategic thinking. 

As for Tasman - so the region that couldn't survive in the current set-up can provide a base for both Nelson Suburbs AND North Wellington? Sure. That's likely.

Have heard Keinsley is indeed opening his wallet and paying silly money for players once again!!!  More than last time if you believe the numbers that are being mentioned.

He can't be, there is going to be limits on acceptable player reimbursements, so no way will clubs bankrupt themselves chasing national league glory, funded through pokies, pillaging junior funds, or well off benefactors causing the club to survive only at their whim.  Nope no way, not at all.

Lol

Where there is a will there is a way. Does the club have to pay them themselves?

That looks like either an Alan Parson's Project album cover or a Pink Floyd one.

Legend
11K
·
21K
·
almost 9 years

I grew up in the Wairarapa. That was 25 years ago, and no doubt it's changed a bit esp with advent of the Paul Ifill Academy. But it's a small province, with a strong rugby culture, and not much of an increasing population. Wairarapa United just sounds like the work of one guy with deep pockets in Keinzley. What happens when Keinzley is eventually gone for good?

If you want your clubs aiming for National League status to have big junior playing numbers, with recognised pathways up through the grades, lots of quality coaches etc - then you need to be in bigger population bases than the Rapa. Tauranga/Mt Manganui is obviously one area, that if setup well could form a quality club that ticks all the boxes at Northern Regional level and above. Population there is growing fast. Lots of 'white flight' from Auckland. Plenty of families with a bit of cash left over from selling their home in 09, to throw a little at their kid's football subs in the sunny BOP!

Same with Auckland's outer burbs, North, West and South re strong areas of pop growth. Which seems to be partly responsible for some of the existing Auckland's clubs amalgamating. Think Slava Meyn's ChCh United are based out Halswell/Rolleston way, in Canterbury - another area of fast increasing popn growth. Lots of families, creating large sustainable junior playing numbers. Sort of an Eastern Suburbs model.

If NZF are serious about curbing player payments, then they will need to bar their teeth. All clubs in the Northern, Central and South Island top leagues to submit say 6 monthly financials to NZF for forensic accountant analysis. Any dodgy account entries to be questioned. Stiff penalties like automatic relegation to various regional 2nd divisions, or 5 year ban from qualification to end of season NL playoffs or similar. Veiled threats that NZF are keen to make an early example of a club caught out. Doesn't matter if you are Central United or whoever, any club caught breaking the rules will be slammed.

Sure it will be hard to monitor any cash payments from wealthy club benefactors/sponsors - but only takes one club to be caught out and a very stiff penalty imposed, to make all the other clubs really think long and hard whether it's worth it.

But yeah any rules about curbing player payments, without any real proper monitoring or strict penalties will just make it a joke.

Phoenix Academy
13
·
190
·
over 11 years

❤ isps Handa . Auckland vs TW. New Zealand Football  what the ..... are you thinking??? What a way to showcase New Zealand Football as it's best. Not the watered down version we have to look forward too!!!! 

One in a million
4K
·
9.5K
·
almost 17 years

Fulltime wrote:

❤ isps Handa . Auckland vs TW. New Zealand Football  what the ..... are you thinking??? What a way to showcase New Zealand Football as it's best. Not the watered down version we have to look forward too!!!! 

Some good football was played today that's for sure.

Marquee
1.1K
·
7.6K
·
over 12 years

The Ozzy NPL will buy up players if no way is sorted to equal their Semi Proffesional needs.. as they play our winter 

Trialist
19
·
100
·
over 10 years

Blew.2 wrote:

The Ozzy NPL will buy up players if no way is sorted to equal their Semi Proffesional needs.. as they play our winter 

Have chatted to a few of the Handa players lately and have been told many are feeling that NZ Football are just hanging any players over the age of 20 out to dry!! They are more or less being told once you are over the age of 20 NZ Football is no longer interested in you. You will only be in the teams to make up numbers as you do not fit the demographic they are interested in. 

They want to play in teams with others of the same ability and against players of the same ability. They understand about bringing young players through and having young players in the team they are happy with but not just because there has to be x amount of young players in the team. 

If NZ Football wanted a youth league, they should have kept the youth league, and not sacrifice the current league and players over 20 for it.

Thought NZ Football was suppose to be there for all players?? not just one demographic. 

We will have a generation of players who will walk away from the game of ply their trade overseas and we will be left with a youth league or a mediocre league!

Trialist
19
·
100
·
over 10 years

Mossimo wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

The Ozzy NPL will buy up players if no way is sorted to equal their Semi Proffesional needs.. as they play our winter 

Have chatted to a few of the Handa players lately and have been told many are feeling that NZ Football are just hanging any players over the age of 20 out to dry!! They are more or less being told once you are over the age of 20 NZ Football is no longer interested in you. You will only be in the teams to make up numbers as you do not fit the demographic they are interested in. 

They want to play in teams with others of the same ability and against players of the same ability. They understand about bringing young players through and having young players in the team they are happy with but not just because there has to be x amount of young players in the team. 

If NZ Football wanted a youth league, they should have kept the youth league, and not sacrifice the current league and players over 20 for it.

Thought NZ Football was suppose to be there for all players?? not just one demographic. 

We will have a generation of players who will walk away from the game of ply their trade overseas and we will be left with a youth league or a mediocre league! What a way to retain players in football.

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
about 17 years

Mossimo wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

The Ozzy NPL will buy up players if no way is sorted to equal their Semi Proffesional needs.. as they play our winter 

Have chatted to a few of the Handa players lately and have been told many are feeling that NZ Football are just hanging any players over the age of 20 out to dry!! They are more or less being told once you are over the age of 20 NZ Football is no longer interested in you. You will only be in the teams to make up numbers as you do not fit the demographic they are interested in. 

They want to play in teams with others of the same ability and against players of the same ability. They understand about bringing young players through and having young players in the team they are happy with but not just because there has to be x amount of young players in the team. 

If NZ Football wanted a youth league, they should have kept the youth league, and not sacrifice the current league and players over 20 for it.

Thought NZ Football was suppose to be there for all players?? not just one demographic. 

We will have a generation of players who will walk away from the game of ply their trade overseas and we will be left with a youth league or a mediocre league!

Cos they can’t get paid silly money for being mediocre footballers? See ya, all the best in Oz.

Trialist
19
·
100
·
over 10 years

Feverish wrote:

Mossimo wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

The Ozzy NPL will buy up players if no way is sorted to equal their Semi Proffesional needs.. as they play our winter 

Have chatted to a few of the Handa players lately and have been told many are feeling that NZ Football are just hanging any players over the age of 20 out to dry!! They are more or less being told once you are over the age of 20 NZ Football is no longer interested in you. You will only be in the teams to make up numbers as you do not fit the demographic they are interested in. 

They want to play in teams with others of the same ability and against players of the same ability. They understand about bringing young players through and having young players in the team they are happy with but not just because there has to be x amount of young players in the team. 

If NZ Football wanted a youth league, they should have kept the youth league, and not sacrifice the current league and players over 20 for it.

Thought NZ Football was suppose to be there for all players?? not just one demographic. 

We will have a generation of players who will walk away from the game of ply their trade overseas and we will be left with a youth league or a mediocre league!

Cos they can’t get paid silly money for being mediocre footballers? See ya, all the best in Oz.

My post didn't mention anything about money or payments. I was simply stating that the general feeling out there is that New Zealand Football are turning their backs on players over the age of 20 and that it may turn players away from football. 

Obviously this is not a concern for you and your only retort is with sarcasm. 

Thought this was a forum for discussions among adults.

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
about 17 years

Mossimo wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Mossimo wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

The Ozzy NPL will buy up players if no way is sorted to equal their Semi Proffesional needs.. as they play our winter 

Have chatted to a few of the Handa players lately and have been told many are feeling that NZ Football are just hanging any players over the age of 20 out to dry!! They are more or less being told once you are over the age of 20 NZ Football is no longer interested in you. You will only be in the teams to make up numbers as you do not fit the demographic they are interested in. 

They want to play in teams with others of the same ability and against players of the same ability. They understand about bringing young players through and having young players in the team they are happy with but not just because there has to be x amount of young players in the team. 

If NZ Football wanted a youth league, they should have kept the youth league, and not sacrifice the current league and players over 20 for it.

Thought NZ Football was suppose to be there for all players?? not just one demographic. 

We will have a generation of players who will walk away from the game of ply their trade overseas and we will be left with a youth league or a mediocre league!

Cos they can’t get paid silly money for being mediocre footballers? See ya, all the best in Oz.

My post didn't mention anything about money or payments. I was simply stating that the general feeling out there is that New Zealand Football are turning their backs on players over the age of 20 and that it may turn players away from football. 

Obviously this is not a concern for you and your only retort is with sarcasm. 

Thought this was a forum for discussions among adults.

Maybe explain some of the reasons - or did you not extract that in your wide ranging survey?

WeeNix
300
·
570
·
over 10 years

Is it a possibility that a reverse situation happens where youth spots would be getting some pretty decent coin thrown at them from the top teams? Players under 20 are pretty much essential now

Trialist
22
·
140
·
over 6 years

How serious do we all think nz football is taking the player payments?? Because some of the silly money that is being thrown around in Chch and I am now hearing in Wellington, seems to be worse than ever....... They say they are going to clamp down and the numbers go up!!!! And not just for senior players. Being a half decent U20 player has been turn into a commodity. 

First Team Squad
1K
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1.7K
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over 15 years

Does NZ Football actually have power to audit player payments? If a player is being paid as a "coach" at a club, does NZ Football have any powers to investigate?

Probably a red herring anyway - I doubt they'd have resources to properly investigate and prosecute.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

Unless they have the power or resources to audit financials of all clubs in the Northern, Central and Southern leagues six monthly/annually - then any talk about stamping out player payments is just that worthless talk.

And if they are auditing the clubs, and do find evidence of illegal payments, they have to take action. Points deduction, relegation or whatever. Otherwise again it all becomes a bit of a joke.

Marquee
1.1K
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7.6K
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over 12 years

The Document (Maybe outdated now)

The types of entities permitted entry into the men’s national leagues are as follows: 

CLUB – affiliated member of New Zealand Football or Federation of New Zealand Football 

NATIONAL LEAGUE CLUB – see explanation below 

REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVE TEAM – representative team of all member clubs of a federation or district association

The National League Club concept will enable the historical standalone national league entities (franchises), as well as any current or new clubs, to establish a partnership with a community club or clubs affiliated to a member federation through a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU). This would be in a form approved by New Zealand Football and the federation with the purpose of delivering, in whole or in part, the Talent Perform pathway of the Whole of Football Plan. 

The mixed-model concept, in particular the types of entities permitted to participate in the national league, aims to further connect the game by driving greater partnerships and collaboration between the national league entities and community clubs. To view the Whole of Football Plan please click here

Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

Blew.2 wrote:

The Document (Maybe outdated now)

The types of entities permitted entry into the men’s national leagues are as follows: 

CLUB – affiliated member of New Zealand Football or Federation of New Zealand Football 

NATIONAL LEAGUE CLUB – see explanation below 

REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVE TEAM – representative team of all member clubs of a federation or district association

The National League Club concept will enable the historical standalone national league entities (franchises), as well as any current or new clubs, to establish a partnership with a community club or clubs affiliated to a member federation through a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU). This would be in a form approved by New Zealand Football and the federation with the purpose of delivering, in whole or in part, the Talent Perform pathway of the Whole of Football Plan. 

The mixed-model concept, in particular the types of entities permitted to participate in the national league, aims to further connect the game by driving greater partnerships and collaboration between the national league entities and community clubs. To view the Whole of Football Plan please click here

this was for the plan before the new one so really is irrevelant now

Marquee
1.1K
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7.6K
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over 12 years
Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

Blew.2 wrote:

Out of Date As well ?

If so what is the NEW?

this

"....The incumbent standalone national league entities (franchises) will be able compete in the NLS through either affiliating as a new member club of a federation under the relevant rules or amalgamating with an existing member club. As a transitional measure to allow an appropriate timeframe for such changes, in 2021 a national league entity may enter into a partnership with an existing member club through a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) approved by NZF and the federation. For the sake of clarity, any partnership means that all players are registered with the partner club and that, should the partner club qualify for the championship, the partner club could operate under the national league entity brand.....".


so actually pretty much the same but no regional rep teams (well except for in the Women's league)

Marquee
1.1K
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7.6K
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over 12 years

Blew.2 wrote:

Out of Date As well ?

If so what is the NEW?

this

"....The incumbent standalone national league entities (franchises) will be able compete in the NLS through either affiliating as a new member club of a federation under the relevant rules or amalgamating with an existing member club. As a transitional measure to allow an appropriate timeframe for such changes, in 2021 a national league entity may enter into a partnership with an existing member club through a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) approved by NZF and the federation. For the sake of clarity, any partnership means that all players are registered with the partner club and that, should the partner club qualify for the championship, the partner club could operate under the national league entity brand.....".


so actually pretty much the same but no regional rep teams (well except for in the Women's league)

So ACFC, Eastern Suburbs n TW can play on in Name.
Starting XI
1.3K
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2.7K
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almost 9 years

Blew.2 wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

Out of Date As well ?

If so what is the NEW?

this

"....The incumbent standalone national league entities (franchises) will be able compete in the NLS through either affiliating as a new member club of a federation under the relevant rules or amalgamating with an existing member club. As a transitional measure to allow an appropriate timeframe for such changes, in 2021 a national league entity may enter into a partnership with an existing member club through a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) approved by NZF and the federation. For the sake of clarity, any partnership means that all players are registered with the partner club and that, should the partner club qualify for the championship, the partner club could operate under the national league entity brand.....".


so actually pretty much the same but no regional rep teams (well except for in the Women's league)

So ACFC, Eastern Suburbs n TW can play on in Name.

well Eastern Suburbs are a club so will be playing on in name anyway

Auckland City registered as a club with AFF last season so they will likely merge with Central

Team Wellington - you'd be better placed to know whats happening there

First Team Squad
2.1K
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1.4K
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about 3 years

So my understanding of the national league system for 2021:

NRFL Premier (12 teams) - Auckland United, Bay Olympic, Birkenhead United, Central United, Eastern Suburbs, Hamilton Wanderers, Manukau United, Melville United, Northern Rovers, North Shore, West Coast Rangers, Western Springs. Likely playing home and away, top four take part in the National League. 

Central League (10 teams) - Lower Hutt, Miramar Rangers, Napier City Rovers, North Wellington, Petone, Wainuiomata, Wairarapa United, Waterside Karori, Wellington Olympic, Western Suburbs. Likely playing home and away, top three take part in the National League. 

Mainland Prem (8 teams) - Cashmere Tech, Christchurch United, Coastal Spirit, Ferrymead Bays, Halswell United, Nelson Suburbs, Nomads United, Selwyn United. Likely home and away. Top five take part in the South Island League alongside three Southern teams, which plays a round robin with top two going to the National League.

Southern Prem (8 teams) - Green Island, Mosgiel, Northern, Otago Uni, Queenstown, Roslyn-Wakari, South City Royals, Wanaka. Home and away. Top three take part in the South Island League alongside five Mainland teams, which plays a round robin with top two going to the National League.

Wellington Phoenix Reserves also compete in the National League.

Have I missed anything or does anyone have any more info to add? Is this a fair/good system and how long do we think it will last?

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
·
over 6 years
lsmith1001 wrote:

So my understanding of the national league system for 2021:

NRFL Premier (12 teams) - Auckland United, Bay Olympic, Birkenhead United, Central United, Eastern Suburbs, Hamilton Wanderers, Manukau United, Melville United, Northern Rovers, North Shore, West Coast Rangers, Western Springs. Likely playing home and away, top four take part in the National League. 

Central League (10 teams) - Lower Hutt, Miramar Rangers, Napier City Rovers, North Wellington, Petone, Wainuiomata, Wairarapa United, Waterside Karori, Wellington Olympic, Western Suburbs. Likely playing home and away, top three take part in the National League. 

Mainland Prem (8 teams) - Cashmere Tech, Christchurch United, Coastal Spirit, Ferrymead Bays, Halswell United, Nelson Suburbs, Nomads United, Selwyn United. Likely home and away. Top five take part in the South Island League alongside three Southern teams, which plays a round robin with top two going to the National League.

Southern Prem (8 teams) - Green Island, Mosgiel, Northern, Otago Uni, Queenstown, Roslyn-Wakari, South City Royals, Wanaka. Home and away. Top three take part in the South Island League alongside five Mainland teams, which plays a round robin with top two going to the National League.

Wellington Phoenix Reserves also compete in the National League.

Have I missed anything or does anyone have any more info to add? Is this a fair/good system and how long do we think it will last?

I can confirm all those leagues are home and away leagues.

Central United are likely to play as Auckland City.

NRFL Premier Division starts March 26/27. Central League starts March 27. Mainland Premier League starts March 19. Southern Premier League starts March 16. The South Island Football Championship will start either July 10 or (more likely) July 17. 

It's not entirely clear yet when the national championship phase will start, but at the earliest it will be September 18 (and more likely September 25 or even likelier still October 2).

The Chatham Cup dates this year are April 25 for the preliminary round, May 15 for round one, June 7 for round two, June 19 for round three, July 10 for round four, July 31 for the quarterfinals, August 21 for the semifinals, and September 12 for the final.

Phoenix Academy
230
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360
·
over 16 years

Apart from the lowering of standards by the dilution of talent the other issue is potential player burnout.

Franchises that reach the playoffs in the Premiership and then move to their clubs are likely to have no break between the competitions. Given that there was little break between the last winter season and the Premiership then some players are going to play 3 seasons back to back ?We are talking about 60 games back to back potentially for amateur players ?

Clubs like Central , Hamilton Wanderers , Napier city Rovers , Miramar Rangers , Olympic , Cashmere Tech could be at a disadvantadge here. 

Not forgetting administrators , largely volunteers who will have been going for over 12 months

Phoenix Academy
230
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360
·
over 16 years

Oh and I forgot Eastern Suburbs as well and maybe Western Springs ?

Phoenix Academy
130
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440
·
over 16 years
chubbs wrote:

Apart from the lowering of standards by the dilution of talent the other issue is potential player burnout.

Franchises that reach the playoffs in the Premiership and then move to their clubs are likely to have no break between the competitions. Given that there was little break between the last winter season and the Premiership then some players are going to play 3 seasons back to back ?We are talking about 60 games back to back potentially for amateur players ?

Clubs like Central , Hamilton Wanderers , Napier city Rovers , Miramar Rangers , Olympic , Cashmere Tech could be at a disadvantadge here. 

Not forgetting administrators , largely volunteers who will have been going for over 12 months

I was talking to a coach of one of those teams this weekend and he mentioned this exactly as an issue. Said he would love to give players a rest but practically speaking it depends on squad depth and is unlikely. Feels the overlap is hard to manage too for pre season planning as the current premiership players if they play sam/finals are not part of any of it and makes it very disjointed. 

Starting XI
2.5K
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2.4K
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over 8 years

I guess the good news is that this is the last season where that will be a problem, right? Summer months will by and large be free under the "Champions League" model, allowing player to rest or play NPL as they see fit

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
·
over 6 years
Nelfoos wrote:

I guess the good news is that this is the last season where that will be a problem, right? Summer months will by and large be free under the "Champions League" model, allowing player to rest or play NPL as they see fit

This.

While I feel it was a mistake to not give the new system some clear air (it technically starts 48 hours after the ISPS Handa Men's Premiership final!) we've been operating in an overlapping, 12-month long environment for 17 years now and come the end of the 2021 season there will be a proper off-season for the first time since 2003. It's up to coaches and players to manage themselves during the 2021 season the same way they have for the past 17 years. 

There will be about a month's break between the end of the regional premier leagues and the Chatham Cup and the start of the national championship phase too.

The only clubs with something truly significant at stake in 2021 (those fighting for the eight places in the South Island Football Championship, who will then occupy those places in 2022) will only have a handful (if that) of 2020-21 national league players anyway.

And chubbs, it's worth remembering Auckland and Hamilton clubs stopped playing at the start of August during the 2020 winter, so they had a pretty long break before the 2020-21 national league. 

That leaves Miramar/Team Wellington as the only entity that will really be pulling a long winter-summer-winter shift.

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
·
over 6 years
Starting XI
880
·
2.5K
·
about 12 years

from a NRF club point of view this is how they laid out the season dates (some of this is subject to change) 



First Team Squad
1K
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1.7K
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over 15 years
Nelfoos wrote:

I guess the good news is that this is the last season where that will be a problem, right? Summer months will by and large be free under the "Champions League" model, allowing player to rest or play NPL as they see fit

This^^

One of the goals of the changes was addressing player burnout, which has been voiced by players.

Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years

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