Early retirement
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 As someone said to me, serial troll.  Meh.

...an ill-informed serial troll.

a.k.a AJ13
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 I find it laughable how so many kiwis think just because we're no.1 at a global minnow sport like rugby, and that we've also done ok at other minnow sports like cricket, netball, league... that we should also be right up there in more globalised sports like football and tennis. Ya know, just because.

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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It is a disgrace that we didn't go all the way and come up against Spain in the final,to be honest. We should have wont that too. I mean,Spain,they aren't any good at rugby,how good could they possibly be at soccer?

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Without trying to troll the writer may have gone over the top however the premises around which the article is based IMO is very true...

In Australia for the past 7 years we have been constantly reading similar articles from a number of writers and TV folk... to the point were many football folk questioned the 80 % negative technical articles and rather than discuss a game discuss how poor or how well from a technical level a team played..

The reasoning is with good football that is a joy to watch then new people will not come and over time  with ugly football you will loose those who are coming... however good technical play will hold and increase crowds...

Some time ago [this year I think but cannot find] I wrote a thread on YF asking whether you would rather win ugly or loose in style... I was almost blasted off the screen . winning is everything no matter how ugly ....

Personally I think that playing style will both win games and get crowds ... 

Comments to date seem to see the article as an attack on the Nix's and NZ football .... I don't see it that way I see it like the thousands articles written in Australia over the life of the A-League which broken down to the simple say .... Style will win more games than no style .. and style gets people in... 

Chill guys ... also what he said was the Nix are now playing with style.... remember also we had a national coach in Pim who only lost one game in qualifying for the WC and he was the most criticized coach in our history because of the style of play he used....

Surge
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Can I have some lungs please miss
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Midfielder wrote:

Without trying to troll the writer may have gone over the top however the premises around which the article is based IMO is very true...

In Australia for the past 7 years we have been constantly reading similar articles from a number of writers and TV folk... to the point were many football folk questioned the 80 % negative technical articles and rather than discuss a game discuss how poor or how well from a technical level a team played..

The reasoning is with good football that is a joy to watch then new people will not come and over time  with ugly football you will loose those who are coming... however good technical play will hold and increase crowds...

Some time ago [this year I think but cannot find] I wrote a thread on YF asking whether you would rather win ugly or loose in style... I was almost blasted off the screen . winning is everything no matter how ugly ....

Personally I think that playing style will both win games and get crowds ... 

Comments to date seem to see the article as an attack on the Nix's and NZ football .... I don't see it that way I see it like the thousands articles written in Australia over the life of the A-League which broken down to the simple say .... Style will win more games than no style .. and style gets people in... 

Chill guys ... also what he said was the Nix are now playing with style.... remember also we had a national coach in Pim who only lost one game in qualifying for the WC and he was the most criticized coach in our history because of the style of play he used....


Chur.
Early retirement
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Except that in the first two seasons the Phoenix style was hugely complemented by analysts and non-agenda ridden supporters everywhere, since then we have had games where we have played Ange's super team off the park we've played such good football.

The trouble is that people like Reason and a number of Australian commentators see one game and tar a coach and team with brush they then whip out and re-use whenever a side or person is discussed when often it's not that clear-cut.

At times the Phoenix have played as good a style of football as any side in the league and you know what impact it's had on crowds?  Not the proverbial sausage.  Yet when they are on a winning run (see the finals in v5) where good weather, hype about the game, and WINNING dragged in 25 and 30k.

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Hard News wrote:

Except that in the first two seasons the Phoenix style was hugely complemented by analysts and non-agenda ridden supporters everywhere, since then we have had games where we have played Ange's super team off the park we've played such good football.

The trouble is that people like Reason and a number of Australian commentators see one game and tar a coach and team with brush they then whip out and re-use whenever a side or person is discussed when often it's not that clear-cut.

At times the Phoenix have played as good a style of football as any side in the league and you know what impact it's had on crowds?  Not the proverbial sausage.  Yet when they are on a winning run (see the finals in v5) where good weather, hype about the game, and WINNING dragged in 25 and 30k.


HW
I am not arguing whether the Nix's have ever played with style and I accept at times and often they have....
Aside from Ange at the Roar and recently GA at the Mariners every coach and team in Australia has seen thousands of articles many times worse than the one under discussion here...
I accept in a WC year and when you made the finals you got a decent crowd ...
Look beyond the bar is moving upwards at a rapid rate .... what was dished up in Hal 1 is simply unacceptable in Hal 8... the league and the expectations of where it wishes to go in the Australia / NZ & ASIAN markets require better standards [extra money] to increase the ratings...
IMO it was an over the top article using poor examples ... however the underlying premises that we need to improve the watch-ability of the A-League is beyond question...   
In its simplest terms ... the current rating for football NSW * QLD are better than the AFL in those states and in Vic, SA, WA, Tassie & NT Football out rates RL.... Football in Australia in 2006 swept pass RU .... Essentially Football is number two in each state and if they can lift the % a few more points could see football sometime over the next ten years becoming the main code in Australia by being a strong second in each state.... What is seen as the key to this is playing with style to make it more watch-able ...
 
Early retirement
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Midfielder wrote:
Aside from Ange at the Roar and recently GA at the Mariners every coach and team in Australia has seen thousands of articles many times worse than the one under discussion here...


Potentially some Mariners blinkers on there Midfielder.  That opening game against West Sydney from the Mariners was as bad I've seen in the A-League.
Early retirement
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 ...and while I'm at it, I don't believe style has much to do with Aus audiences either.  People are raving about the FC vs Jets game at the weekend because of the names and the hype. 

There were five goals so Joe-Six Pack related to the high score.  The game itself was 'technically' a bit shit but because Heskey and Del Piero scored, it was end to end and their were five goals it was great.

Guarantee people 8 goals and a home win and they won't care if they are scored like Brisbane's larry long ball last week or like Louis Fenton's stunner in the opening week.

Legend
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Roar didn't exactly break the crowd records with its attractive tiki taka style did it?


Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Hard News wrote:

Midfielder wrote:
Aside from Ange at the Roar and recently GA at the Mariners every coach and team in Australia has seen thousands of articles many times worse than the one under discussion here...


Potentially some Mariners blinkers on there Midfielder.  That opening game against West Sydney from the Mariners was as bad I've seen in the A-League.

Not disagreeing with you ... however I accept that if we play shit boring football our crowds will not grow... nor will we get non football folk to watch... I agree the Mariners need to lift and improve the style of play...  I keep saying this is not about the Nix's its about growing football...

As for the Roar and their  crowds HHHHHmmmm there is something in what you say but it is unknown what the crowds would have been if they played like MV ...

RU in Australia is almost dead the last FTA match broadcast on national TV I think got less then 300, 000 ... Australian Rugby rating are in a nose dive and the rugby folk acknowledge its the style of play the national and Super teams are playing ....

BTW find any threat or post were I have said negative things about the Nix ....

This kinda article is common in Australia try being PG until recently, MV or the Mariners under LM [as coach] ..

Sport is about entertainment as I said RU folk in Australia are in despair about the style of play driving potential followers away...  
Marquee
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With constructive criticisim should be suggestions. Or it is just bad taste

Legend
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MF - I was probably one of those who flamed you re nice footy vs winning ugly.


I still maintain that (here in Wgtn at least) we will only increase crowd attendance if we are winning regularly and challenging for something (play-off spot, toilet seat, special NCEA certificate etc).


And despite how we bemoan how we hoof it to Greenie and watch him chase - more often than not we do play good footy at home - just not elegant pacy triangle passing.  Some of us play on the stereotypical hoof ball in our posts, others actually think this is all we do.


... just realised this is very similar to HN's earlier post.  So, yeah, wot he said.

 

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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Blew.2 wrote:

With constructive criticisim should be suggestions. Or it is just bad taste


HHHHHMMMMM possibly however I don't know the NZ market ...
My observations and there is much debate as I indicated in the other thread is winning with style gets more bums on seats than winning ugly... not winning at all as you have indicated elsewhere is trouble in NZ [I guess most places TBH]
If I / we look beyond the Nix's and Mariners and say we are talking about growing football... 
In Australia Football is the second code in each state ... the issue is growing that percentage ... its an evolution not a revolution ... 
From a business sense lifting from a low base is much easier than increasing a large existing base...meaning the AFL & RL in their heartland states will struggle to hold their present market share... Football in Australia needs to grow its existing base and the logic / reasoning behind how to grow the base is open for much debate on the best way forward... BUT what everyone says is the better the product the better the growth... 
Back to the article as I said badly worded with poor examples but a sober and important message IMO if you take a long term grow the sport view..    
Marquee
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over 15 years

 article has no credibility as it claims MUFC win by playing beautiful. Anyone who makes a statement that erroneous cannot be taken seriously. 


his article on NZ Tennis seems to miss the player development pathway which looks a lot like NZF's FTC program. Anyone who thinks these set-ups are about kids winning tommorrow proably will never get it, becasue they actually don't want to.

Legend
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Wasn't a bad piece IMO. Obviously his intention is always to stir a bit - but a lot of it is based on fact. Any praise is pretty rare from this guy so we should take it.

Legend
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Midfielder wrote:

Back to the article as I said badly worded with poor examples but a sober and important message IMO if you take a long term grow the sport view..    

[/quote]

[quote=foal30]

 ...looks a lot like NZF's FTC program. Anyone who thinks these set-ups are about kids winning tommorrow proably will never get it, becasue they actually don't want to.



So there are two developments that should impact on a long-term grow the sport view:
  1. NZF implementing Whole of Football at junior level and over time will move through to youth (jury still out on this but it is early days, only one year gone).
  2. Phoenix grooming school of excellence - which already seems to have borne some fruit (ooh err) and is what everyone has been calling for a long time.
Reason only mentions the academy.


Starting XI
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Feverish wrote:

Wasn't a bad piece IMO. Obviously his intention is always to stir a bit - but a lot of it is based on fact. Any praise is pretty rare from this guy so we should take it.



Any idea what he was on about in the first seven paras?
Legend
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dairyflat wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Wasn't a bad piece IMO. Obviously his intention is always to stir a bit - but a lot of it is based on fact. Any praise is pretty rare from this guy so we should take it.



Any idea what he was on about in the first seven paras?

He likes the look of Louis Fenton
Marquee
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about 17 years

don't bother with this guy - a waste of all of your time

Starting XI
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james dean wrote:

don't bother with this guy - a waste of all of your time

Agree with this. I groan every time I click on an article and see "Mark Reason" at the top.

Starting XI
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"Mark emigrated to New Zealand in 2010 having spent over 20 years covering sport for the Telegraph and Sunday Times in Britain."

Which goes to prove why he actually is talking out of his @rse when making up what he likes about the early days of the Phoenix. Bet he hadn't even watched a Phoenix game pre-2010.

Starting XI
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Feverish wrote:

dairyflat wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Wasn't a bad piece IMO. Obviously his intention is always to stir a bit - but a lot of it is based on fact. Any praise is pretty rare from this guy so we should take it.



Any idea what he was on about in the first seven paras?

He likes the look of Louis Fenton


In seven paras! Succinct. 
Legend
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Midfielder wrote:
RU in Australia is almost dead the last FTA match broadcast on national TV I think got less then 300, 000 ... Australian Rugby rating are in a nose dive and the rugby folk acknowledge its the style of play the national and Super teams are playing ....

it's more important to have an attractive style in rugby than football, particularly in the southern hemisphere

fans expect quality possession and plenty of tries after years of watching the all blacks, springboks and wallabies deliver just that

football viewing is about the euphoric goal moment, no matter how it is earned, and if there's only one you remember it more
Starting XI
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The Mark Reason article, this week, Message to Ricki: We want to be entertained   drew plenty of criticism. I thought it was dreadful. I listened to Reason today on RNZ and he seemed sane enough. That left me wondering why he put his name to such, in my opinion,  a poor bit of writing....   


http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2542370/mark-reason-rugby-roundup.asx 

Mark Reason has been a sports journalist for 25 years. He writes for Fairfax Media and is a highly-respected commentator on rugby, the game, and the issues that surround it. (18?12?)


Groundskeeper Willie
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Listen here Fudgeface
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He really has lost the plot this week.

Marquee
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I lost the will to live after reading about a third of it!

Cock
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I'm ashamed at you all for taking a crack at Mark. Take ownership of your opinions guys. Mark could well be really hurting hearing that this is what people think of his columns.

(My bad to anyone that feels it is directed at them. Don't blame me for generalising.)

Legend
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 Integrity, trust, honesty and accountability.

Yeh, with those the Nix can beat Barca, cos that's kinda what the Black Caps v South Africa is, in tests at any rate.

Listen here Fudgeface
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about 14 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

I'm ashamed at you all for taking a crack at Mark. Take ownership of your opinions guys. Mark could well be really hurting hearing that this is what people think of his columns.

(My bad to anyone that feels it is directed at them. Don't blame me for generalising.)

I wasn't trying to have a crack at Mark himself, more at the way he thought comparing current affairs to sport was a good thing to do. Sorry for any offence caused.
Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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almost 17 years

Ok yeah that was the strangest old man ramble I've ever read. 

Cock
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Guys are your sarcasm radars that broken? They were all quotes from Marks article of nonsense (ownership, my bad, blame and hurting...)


*sheesh*

Listen here Fudgeface
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about 14 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Guys are your sarcasm radars that broken? They were all quotes from Marks article of nonsense (ownership, my bad, blame and hurting...)


*sheesh*

Oh right, my sarcasm radar definitely needs a recalibration. 
In that case, fuck Mark Reason and fuck his opinions.
Starting XI
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martinb wrote:

 Integrity, trust, honesty and accountability.

Yeh, with those the Nix can beat Barca, cos that's kinda what the Black Caps v South Africa is, in tests at any rate.


Yep - because our batting will improve if we have these, nothing to do with skill or anything.... I also thought the article was terrible
Marquee
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Legend
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just another load of dribble from reason - at least he's not moaning about the football.

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