Phoenix Academy
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Jeff V: on the point you make about capitalising on the 2010 team profile. "Come train with EPL stars Ryan Nelsen and Winston Reid. Kids love that shit and parents by extension, get into it as well". I rember when I was at primary school in 1982 and Wynton Rufer came to our school and did exactly that. I was a football fan anyway but certainly helped ensure I continued to love football.

Cock
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And there we go.

I think in this country, ABs are profiled cause they are here 100% of the time so essentially, NZRU don't need to profile their brand because Sky do that for them 11 months of the year on the numerous rugby (and replays of rugby, college rugby, womens rugby, 7s) channels .

 

Granted I said above, 'lets getting in Winston and Ryan etc etc' and while that is very much easier said than done because they do not live here, you need to do something to generate profile. In their offseason, what does it cost to get them home for 3 weeks to help create that profile over school holidays time. We need to be better and smarter at it than others because we don't get TV profile.

Marquee
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I know Ivan Vicilich does the Auckland school promo stuff, and this sure helps Central attract the young kids into their youth teams.

Still Believin'
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The NZRFU also employs the All Blacks directly so is able to control everything they do, including image rights etc.

Of course, the NZRFU also has a budget of over $100m, compared to NZF's $10m.


Cock
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Exactly but the point remains, NZF could do better at profiling the AWs...

Legend
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after the current press release I'm surprised the NZF can get to work without the help of a seeing eye dog.

Surge
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Can I have some lungs please miss
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Fucking all the clusters.

LG
Legend
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And I though the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse was bad enough but no the NZF try their best to out do it. Eg: Herbert staying, now going, now staying, now going.

Still Believin'
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http://content.radionetwork.co.nz/weekondemand/radiosport/71315.mp3

Gareth Morgan's interview with Tony Veitch where he offers NZF $5m as long as the government matches it with $10m and the current Board goes.

Everybody should listen to this.

Typical Gareth really, there's as much in there that I think is genius as there is that I think wtf? Even if he's barmy he knows how to get a debate started.


Phoenix Academy
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terminator_x wrote:

http://content.radionetwork.co.nz/weekondemand/radiosport/71315.mp3

Gareth Morgan's interview with Tony Veitch where he offers NZF $5m as long as the government matches it with $10m and the current Board goes.

Everybody should listen to this.

Typical Gareth really, there's as much in there that I think is genius as there is that I think wtf? Even if he's barmy he knows how to get a debate started.


Yada yada yada. GM is very smart at jumping on a bandwagon and talking generalist populist rubbish without actually committing to anything specific or worthwhile. It's very easy to say I'll give you $5m if the gummit does more - he knows full well they won't so he can spout on as much as he likes. And in a few months he can say, "well I tried but nobody listened. now about those cats...."

Marquee
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terminator_x wrote:

http://content.radionetwork.co.nz/weekondemand/radiosport/71315.mp3

Gareth Morgan's interview with Tony Veitch where he offers NZF $5m as long as the government matches it with $10m and the current Board goes.

Everybody should listen to this.

Typical Gareth really, there's as much in there that I think is genius as there is that I think wtf? Even if he's barmy he knows how to get a debate started.


I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on this interview. As well as Gareth trying to provoke further public debate (the need for which is undoubted; as has been mentioned plenty of times on these forums); I sense a frustration against the 'close the wagons' mentality and modus operandi of NZF; which is evident almost wherever you look in the game. It's only natural to expect some amount of tension between our only professional club and the national body, but GM is seeking greater collaboration from a football development viewpoint.

His advocacy for a cohesive national approach to elite football development through the youth ages (13-19) is surely legitimate. The fact he thinks Ernie is the man to oversee it is merely his opinion - after recently interviewing who knows how many people for the top professional football job in the land.

Also, he mentioned a number of times Welnix was half way through a 5 year project and that he would be reviewing his investment in the next 2 years. Alarm bells anyone? or merely bluffing?
First Team Squad
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Global Game wrote:
terminator_x wrote:

http://content.radionetwork.co.nz/weekondemand/radiosport/71315.mp3

Gareth Morgan's interview with Tony Veitch where he offers NZF $5m as long as the government matches it with $10m and the current Board goes.

Everybody should listen to this.

Typical Gareth really, there's as much in there that I think is genius as there is that I think wtf? Even if he's barmy he knows how to get a debate started.


I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on this interview. As well as Gareth trying to provoke further public debate (the need for which is undoubted; as has been mentioned plenty of times on these forums); I sense a frustration against the 'close the wagons' mentality and modus operandi of NZF; which is evident almost wherever you look in the game. It's only natural to expect some amount of tension between our only professional club and the national body, but GM is seeking greater collaboration from a football development viewpoint.

His advocacy for a cohesive national approach to elite football development through the youth ages (13-19) is surely legitimate. The fact he thinks Ernie is the man to oversee it is merely his opinion - after recently interviewing who knows how many people for the top professional football job in the land.

Also, he mentioned a number of times Welnix was half way through a 5 year project and that he would be reviewing his investment in the next 2 years. Alarm bells anyone? or merely bluffing?

This
Gareth makes some very legitimate points here and he has every right to state his opinion( he spends loads of his own money on youth football development). Pisses me off when people jump on the anti Gareth bandwagon.....sure he has a scattergun approach to his opinions but he often hits the nail on the head. NZF is a basket case in much of what it does, the WC campaign being a prime example. I think we need more people standing up like him and Hay and keep the pressure up on NZF to change....other wise we will be in exactly the same position as we are now in 4 years time. 

As for Gareths statement about Welnix's 5 year agenda....that was stated right from the start. For all those Gareth haters whats your plan for the Nix if /when Welnix decide that have had enough of the bullshit in NZF and pull their money?. Tall poppy syndrome here....me thinks! Keep slagging off the clubs owners and see where that gets us.
Legend
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Just for the record. I'm NOT anti-GM. Infact I'm very pro-GM.

As for Gazza:

1) Agree re cats and N Korea

2) Disagree re his healthy food ideology

3) Found his blog rant on NZFootball rather odius. Haven't much inclination to listen to him (maybe if someone I respect like FUBLU or Comical Ali asks me).

Trialist
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I wonder if there is anyone in NZF with enough knowledge of FIFA statutes and disciplinary code and how to use them to take advantage of the mistakes made by others

Still Believin'
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Gareth's blog on the subject...

http://garethsworld.com/blog/uncategorized/morgan-offer-revamp-new-zealand-football/

Doesn't contain any more detail than the radio interview, and really just raises more questions than answers.

Hopefully Gareth can elaborate on his plan as things unfold over the next few weeks.


Cock
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go cas route wrote:

I wonder if there is anyone in NZF with enough knowledge of FIFA statutes and disciplinary code and how to use them to take advantage of the mistakes made by others

still going on about that?
Must try harder
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De J on Radio Sport...he'd have been a reasonably competant middle manager , all blame deflected , all sweetness and light promised for the future.... funniest bit was a coin flip between  Veitch desperately lapdogging  , " sorry to give u such a hard time Fred " and then the first call up , who had to be a NZF employee or De J relative ....hilarious !

TV
On probation
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Jeff Vader wrote:
go cas route wrote:

I wonder if there is anyone in NZF with enough knowledge of FIFA statutes and disciplinary code and how to use them to take advantage of the mistakes made by others

still going on about that?

Remember Andrew Durante affair? How afraid were NZF to be victims of a complaint in November play-off? Even to the point to make Solomon Islands do the work for them.
Zambia did it last year sucessfully last year agains Sudan, Tunisia did it against Cape Verde and even trying to repeat the trick against Cameroon . Syria were thrown out of WC qualifiers in 2011 for the same reason. At least 6 teams in CAF were caught in fault, with a forfeit as a punisment. 
The only way to make everyone follow the rules is that the authority is compeled to enforce them, specially when there are federations that try to get unfair advantege by breaking them.
Maybe someone care, as I do about this.

Legend
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terminator_x wrote:

Gareth's blog on the subject...

http://garethsworld.com/blog/uncategorized/morgan-offer-revamp-new-zealand-football/

Doesn't contain any more detail than the radio interview, and really just raises more questions than answers.

Hopefully Gareth can elaborate on his plan as things unfold over the next few weeks.


Looks like he's calmed down from his ragey, red mist babbling after Azteca.

Now that he is expressing a coherent vision for the future it will be helpful to know which aspects he thinks aren't being addressed by NZ Football or the footballing community.  Refresh my mind - how long has Whole of Football been going now (and this must surely be a ten year plus time frame to bear fruit)?
 

Marquee
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WOF started from youngest ages up. It pretty much finishes age 15/16; it does not address ongoing development for 15-19 year olds at all. Unless Wanderers SC is the plan FFS?

Starting XI
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Gareth Morgan channeling his inner Winston Peters. He makes some good points, but to me, there's more of a self-promoting agenda here, than actually being serious about doing something.

- Prepared to put up 5M if govt puts in 10M - fair enough. I also agree with GM that if motivated, the government could find this funding.

-NZF board must resign? Fat chance, and he knows it. As pointed out above, GM's now in a position to paint himself as the "I tried, but no-one listened" hero

- My question is who would GM replace the board with? Given that he "doesn't do backroom deals over coffee" I'd like to know who up-front who he's got lined up, or is he simply creating a power vacuum?

- I'd also like to know what his specific examples of NZF incompetence/mismanagement are, to show he knows what he's talking about. His example of offering to pay for a new NZ coach is bollocks. When did he offer? Months ago?- of course he didn't get a reply, Ricki was in charge, and the end wasn't in sight. This week? Ricki's seat is still warm, and NZF are probably busy weighing up their options.

In addition, I completely disagree with his analysis of the Azteca debacle.

What I do like is his & Danny Hay's vision of a national coach implementing a coaching philosophy and getting coaches to follow it at all levels.

I've heard the Senior job described as 'part-time' a few times lately. My questions to NZF would be: are you working to get more fixtures to make it closer to full-time, or providing opportunities to the new coach to travel abroad & watch our overseas players in the flesh?

Alternatively, is combining the role of All Whites coach with either U23 or U20 a feasible option, in order to get that continuation of coaching philosophy (although it obviously needs to start at younger levels)


Legend
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I'm saying that WOF has started and it will take time for that cohort to come through.  If there are other changes that have been made at older levels then well and good, but if not then there is still time.


Starting XI
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i don't think we have an issue with player production, we are making good progress here. grassroots coaching seems to be doing it's bit already.  i think we do need a co-ordinated startegy at elite level and a bettr national league

Cock
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wolfman wrote:

Gareth Morgan channeling his inner Winston Peters. He makes some good points, but to me, there's more of a self-promoting agenda here, than actually being serious about doing something.

- Prepared to put up 5M if govt puts in 10M - fair enough. I also agree with GM that if motivated, the government could find this funding.

-NZF board must resign? Fat chance, and he knows it. As pointed out above, GM's now in a position to paint himself as the "I tried, but no-one listened" hero

- My question is who would GM replace the board with? Given that he "doesn't do backroom deals over coffee" I'd like to know who up-front who he's got lined up, or is he simply creating a power vacuum?

- I'd also like to know what his specific examples of NZF incompetence/mismanagement are, to show he knows what he's talking about. His example of offering to pay for a new NZ coach is bollocks. When did he offer? Months ago?- of course he didn't get a reply, Ricki was in charge, and the end wasn't in sight. This week? Ricki's seat is still warm, and NZF are probably busy weighing up their options.

In addition, I completely disagree with his analysis of the Azteca debacle.

What I do like is his & Danny Hay's vision of a national coach implementing a coaching philosophy and getting coaches to follow it at all levels.

I've heard the Senior job described as 'part-time' a few times lately. My questions to NZF would be: are you working to get more fixtures to make it closer to full-time, or providing opportunities to the new coach to travel abroad & watch our overseas players in the flesh?

Alternatively, is combining the role of All Whites coach with either U23 or U20 a feasible option, in order to get that continuation of coaching philosophy (although it obviously needs to start at younger levels)


good points wolfman. I concur
Life and death
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I'm not a fan of having all of our national teams playing to the same pattern. Too many eggs all in the same basket. We need to allow our coach/es to play a style and system that best suits the players they have available. A good coach should be able to do this.

Phoenix Academy
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Having read the blog it is a very broad series of statements. The board has only just been appointed and I'm not sure they are to blame for us not getting to Mexico?

Just a question for those agreeing with his theory on a co-ordinated approach. Does this mean you'd forgo your local team winning their league if it meant they were playing the same style as the AWs in the name of a total development philosophy? Just intrigued as many on here state that the ASBP shouldn't be a development league, but surely to make GM's plan work it would have to be

WeeNix
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I'm not a fan of having all of our national teams playing to the same pattern. Too many eggs all in the same basket. We need to allow our coach/es to play a style and system that best suits the players they have available. A good coach should be able to do this.

This. It seems rather stupid to only coach one style of game. Its as if Gareth doesnt understand why NZ has historically played the way they have.
Still Believin'
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Here's the Fred de Jong response to Gareth's offer...

http://www.radiosport.co.nz/news/spsoc/1556294442-football--fred-de-jong-hits-back-at-criticism

And the audio:

http://arntrnassets.mediaspanonline.com/radio/s01/1095028/A1158_20131124005500186_0.mp3

To be fair, I thought Fred's response was pretty good all things considered. He was certainly able to bring a few more facts to the table than Gareth has so far.

The point about the All Whites being only one part of NZF's overall responsibility is a good one. I'm happy for there to be some additional focus on the AW's in the immediate aftermath of this campaign but I hope it isn't going to be at the expense of the women's game and grassroots where there are some good things happening.

It will be fascinating to see how this all plays out anyway.

LG
Legend
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Fred de Wanker was lame. Basically wouldn't accept any blame for the world cup build up fuck up. Reckoned they had a meeting several months ago blah blah blah. Reckons they are thinking of all the various levels of NZ teams, not just the senior mens. Wants all the teams playing the same style - I hope fucken not, losing football is not what we want,  just like hoofball.

Sorry but Morgan is right in some respects about a lot of things, but this is not just a business. I got the impression the NZFA want to do this on the cheap as per normal. One coach overseeing every level. They have not learned a friggen thing if they insist on doing this.

Legend
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terminator_x wrote:

Here's the Fred de Jong response to Gareth's offer...

http://www.radiosport.co.nz/news/spsoc/1556294442-football--fred-de-jong-hits-back-at-criticism

And the audio:

http://arntrnassets.mediaspanonline.com/radio/s01/1095028/A1158_20131124005500186_0.mp3

To be fair, I thought Fred's response was pretty good all things considered. He was certainly able to bring a few more facts to the table than Gareth has so far.

The point about the All Whites being only one part of NZF's overall responsibility is a good one. I'm happy for there to be some additional focus on the AW's in the immediate aftermath of this campaign but I hope it isn't going to be at the expense of the women's game and grassroots where there are some good things happening.

It will be fascinating to see how this all plays out anyway.

yeah but people are genuinly angsty about NZF on multiple fronts at all levels of the game.
classic on the Fred interview trying to claim they conquered Everest with the $5m deal "there's a lot of hard work..people don;t just come up and say I'll give you x amount for the broadcasting rights". Um well yeah they do..
Starting XI
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Lonegunmen wrote:

Fred de Wanker was lame. Basically wouldn't accept any blame for the world cup build up fuck up. Reckoned they had a meeting several months ago blah blah blah. Reckons they are thinking of all the various levels of NZ teams, not just the senior mens. Wants all the teams playing the same style - I hope fucken not, losing football is not what we want,  just like hoofball.

Sorry but Morgan is right in some respects about a lot of things, but this is not just a business. I got the impression the NZFA want to do this on the cheap as per normal. One coach overseeing every level. They have not learned a friggen thing if they insist on doing this.


at least he fronted up - where is the interim CEO, hiding again?  
Starting XI
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I'm not a fan of having all of our national teams playing to the same pattern. Too many eggs all in the same basket. We need to allow our coach/es to play a style and system that best suits the players they have available. A good coach should be able to do this.



I agree there are drawbacks to this, such as what happens when we change national coach, and the new guy wants to play a different way? Do we start all over again?

However, I think what the likes of Hay are getting at, is that you do want coaches moving in the same direction. You can encourage and train players to be more confident on the ball, while having variations in tactics/formations.

What you don't want is the U17s playing a 'Stoke City' type style, then many of those guys being overlooked for the U20s because that coach favours a Brisbane/Barca-type pattern and they haven't got the right skill set (as an extreme example)
Marquee
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about 17 years

In the end this is a typical Gareth proposal - attention grabbing, grandstanding and reducing all issues to black and white.  In the end $5mn won't "fix" football just like the $10mn didn't fix football after the last world cup.  I think there is change needed but let's wait until Gareth is done "fixing" the Phoenix as that's not project complete by any stretch of the imagination - and to be honest there are still a lot of questions about how the organisation will ever be in a position to compete with the best teams with the current financial model.

Legend
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about 17 years

We aren't going to move forward with the coach education and coaching pathways we (don't) have in this country. This needs to change first 

Life and death
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I'm sorry, to me GM has no footballing credibility at all. He is a part owner of the Phoenix because he has money, not because he has any special footballing knowledge. On football matters, I'd take more notice of what Buffon or NUFC has to say over anything GM says.

I'm not certain that football in this Country is broken or broken enough to call for this kind of wholesale change. While there are legitimate moans about a number of things - they are reasonably cosmetic rather than deal breaking.

The pay to play at the World Cup situation is a difference in opinion rather than a fatal blow.

The inability to organise meaningful games for the AW before the play offs was bad and influenced somewhat by the fact we didn't qualify for the Confeds Cup.

The AW's performance and that of RH was not to our liking but you can't be interfereing at every step with the coach and what he wants from the team. You don't hire someone to do the job and then spend the rest of the time interfering.

The Whole of Football Plan is a good one in my opinion and groundbreaking, we will see the benefits of this down the track.

Whether you like the 2 Dutchmen or not is just down to personalities really.

I'm quite happy to allow democracy take its course, NZF leadership will be chosen by those with skin in the game and we will all demand for better [as is our right] but I certainly don't want the likes of GM dictating to the rest of we uneducated public about how our sport is to be run.


 

Marquee
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james dean wrote:

In the end this is a typical Gareth proposal - attention grabbing, grandstanding and reducing all issues to black and white.  In the end $5mn won't "fix" football just like the $10mn didn't fix football after the last world cup.  I think there is change needed but let's wait until Gareth is done "fixing" the Phoenix as that's not project complete by any stretch of the imagination - and to be honest there are still a lot of questions about how the organisation will ever be in a position to compete with the best teams with the current financial model.



+1 and then some, very good post.
Phoenix Academy
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360
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over 10 years
Feverish wrote:

We aren't going to move forward with the coach education and coaching pathways we (don't) have in this country. This needs to change first 

This nails it in one. Coaching has to have the most resources thrown at it, at all levels. I vote for the person who bans local clubs paying players for winter leagues - biggest waste of money ever.

Also agree with what JD and NP have said this morning - common sense abounds today!

Cock
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Cock
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I'm sorry, to me GM has no footballing credibility at all. He is a part owner of the Phoenix because he has money, not because he has any special footballing knowledge. On football matters, I'd take more notice of what Buffon or NUFC has to say over anything GM says.

Not sure if serious or sarcastic.

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