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History for Nelfoos

Ole @ Torslanda IK (Sweden; regional 4th division?)

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Posted June 11, 2019 02:28 · last edited June 11, 2019 02:31

andrewvoerman wrote:

Nelfoos wrote:

andrewvoerman wrote:

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Declan's focus is on NZ though, that is his 'grand scheme of things' (for now). Looking at his 1994 group out of the Waikato-Bay of Plenty and those from around 1998 onwards out of Olé, his approach appears to be streets ahead as far as the NZ footballer is concerned. Saying that's nothing in the context of the whole football world is shifting the debate to an arena he's not fighting in (yet).

Fair enough. I don't disagree that he's the best person at developing talent in NZ in the slightest. However, I don't think what he's achieved within NZ is anywhere near enough to justify the ego and method of dealing with other clubs/academies/players - in fact, I can't think of much that would justify it beyond pumping out Premier League players. Its great for New Zealand, but he's hamstringing football in NZ with his attitude and selfishness (but by no means is the only person/organisation to blame), while at the same time taking every opportunity to promote himself and denigrate others on social media.

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Unknown editor edited June 11, 2019 02:31
andrewvoerman wrote:
Nelfoos wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Declan's focus is on NZ though, that is his 'grand scheme of things' (for now). Looking at his 1994 group out of the Waikato-Bay of Plenty and those from around 1998 onwards out of Olé, his approach appears to be streets ahead as far as the NZ footballer is concerned. Saying that's nothing in the context of the whole football world is shifting the debate to an arena he's not fighting in (yet).

Fair enough. I don't disagree that he's the best person at developing talent in NZ in the slightest. However, I don't think what he's achieved within NZ is anywhere near enough to justify the ego and method of dealing with other clubs/players - in fact, I can't think of much that would justify it beyond pumping out Premier League players. Its great for New Zealand, but he's hamstringing football in NZ with his attitude and selfishness (but by no means is the only person/organisation to blame), while at the same time taking every opportunity to promote himself and denigrate others on social media.
Unknown editor edited June 11, 2019 02:29
andrewvoerman wrote:
Nelfoos wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Declan's focus is on NZ though, that is his 'grand scheme of things' (for now). Looking at his 1994 group out of the Waikato-Bay of Plenty and those from around 1998 onwards out of Olé, his approach appears to be streets ahead as far as the NZ footballer is concerned. Saying that's nothing in the context of the whole football world is shifting the debate to an arena he's not fighting in (yet).

Fair enough. I don't disagree that he's the best person at developing talent in NZ in the slightest. However, I don't think what he's achieved within NZ is anywhere near enough to justify the ego and method of dealing with other clubs/players - in fact, I can't think of much that would justify it beyond pumping out Premier League players. Its great for New Zealand, but he's hamstringing football in NZ with his attitude, while at the same time taking every opportunity to promote himself and denigrate others on social media.
Unknown editor edited June 11, 2019 02:28
andrewvoerman wrote:
Nelfoos wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
watching_from_far wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:

Declan...

He thinks his way is the best way

He has had his successes and his failures.

Declan is just like any other football coach in the world in that respect.

In NZ, this goldfish bowl is quite tiny so he stands out as being noisy because he has had a couple of players go ok. Anywhere else in the world, no one would probably give him a second thought.

That probably says more about the lack of quality of our players our system produces in that the 1-2 he does produce, standout vs our national system would produce and what would happen in other countries

So you could say that with the players his academy has produce in recent years compared to what nzf system has produced his way is the best...

I understand the point you are making. Mine was bigger than just what happens in NZ

My point is (and this is a lot harsher than I intend but its more to illustrate the point)

Declan is a good coach I think on an NZ landscape so I take nothing away from that - but I also think take him out of NZ, and he is just another football coach. Tab Baldwin was great for the mens basketball team, but he was just another American basketball coach of no particular worth outside of NZ. Declan has had his success that is about as measurable as if I close my eyes and throw stones at a milk bottle 20m away, I will hit if I throw enough stones. The very fact that I will hit, does not make me an expert at hitting milk bottles with stones with my eyes close from 20m away. It means that every once in a while, I am going to have success. Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd 


To be able to call himself great I think he needs to learn to be flexible and play nice. Thats the only reasons why he doesn't work with NZF is his lack of flexibility, or he could most likely have been the technical director by now, and then how would our stock look? We would then all be at his feet calling him the saviour.

Consider that.

You say: "Declan has really only had 2 players hit the big time - Ryan Thomas and Tyler Boyd" 

The only other three players to have played regular first-team football in decent top-tier leagues in Europe in the last two years (so not counting Greg Draper) are Winston Reid and Themi Tzimopoulos (effectively developed in Denmark and Greece) and Chris Wood (went to England at 16) so I'd say Declan's doing pretty well.

You're agreeing with Vader - yeah he's done well, but he's also produced 2 players. Good in NZ, an absolute nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very early to be telling everyone else there's only one way to develop youth, and if you don't agree with me you must be an idiot (obviously paraphrasing but very much the message I get from him). I think Declan is pretty good at throwing stones, but there's other techniques to throwing stones and when everyone throws stones together, we hit far more milk bottles.

Also doesn't change the fact that he'd be far more successful if he had any ability to co-operate with other stakeholders.

Declan's focus is on NZ though, that is his 'grand scheme of things' (for now). Looking at his 1994 group out of the Waikato-Bay of Plenty and those from around 1998 onwards out of Olé, his approach appears to be streets ahead as far as the NZ footballer is concerned. Saying that's nothing in the context of the whole football world is shifting the debate to an arena he's not fighting in (yet).

Fair enough. I don't disagree that he's the best person at developing talent in NZ in the slightest. However, I don't think what he's achieved within NZ is anywhere near enough to justify the ego and method of dealing with other clubs/players - in fact, I can't think of much that would justify it beyond pumping out Premier League players. Its great for New Zealand, but he's hamstringing football in NZ with his attitude, while at the same time taking every opportunity to promote himself and denigrate others on social media.