May I suggest they use different parties to those that did Karori Park...




Queenslander 3x a year.
May I suggest they use different parties to those that did Karori Park...
Maybe the new fields could be "rolled" under your supervision by the Karori Tonners.....
It'd be flat in no time!
Founder
http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/show-news.asp?ID=2120
Keep an eye on the cancellation thread for any details.
I think that is good news, I would way rather travel and extra 30 min than watch and participate in 90mins of mud wrestling.
Should there be some investment in the grounds around Wgtn? Better soils and drainage? I used to love playing on the Strand at school as it is a lot sandier soil than most grounds which seem almost clay like in retaining water. The Hutt River would flood at times, but then would deposit all this good soil and make an even and flat pitch that drained really well. The proximity to the Hutt River would have helped with drainage. Now comparing this with the grounds just over the stop bank at Hutt High and they would be water logged for a day even days after a sustained period of rain and would cut up really easily when it was wet.
Just to add a few more cents. I also have issue with how the grass is cut, especially before the fields end in a bog. A lot of the grounds that double up as cricket fields are far superior than those dedicated purely to football especially early in the season, take Alex Moore 2 vs 1 and the fields of Macalister Park as an example. These cricket fields are pretty hard but are flat and even, the grass is not long allowing for a game based on skill rather than physicality.
If there were enough grounds that didn't clash with cricket I would even suggest switching the football season to the summer to be played in better conditions, both ground and weather conditions. Having better conditions is so important in developing skill.
My opinion on the matter is from a perspective of growing up playing football on the high veld of South Africa until I was 15 when I immigrated with my family to NZ. In the winter it does not rain and the grounds are hard and fast and if irrigated/managed properly produce very good pitches. The only problem is that my slide tackling was, lets say underdeveloped on arriving to NZ.
Queenslander 3x a year.
Queenslander 3x a year.
I can't say I have done any in depth research into it, but the rugby pitch beside Tawa's ground was unused all Saturday and wouldn't the wind tunnel, Kilbirnie park, be better used with 2 football pitches...(ok possibly not the best example, but you get the idea).
Just a thought

) typing actAlso, I'm not sure this is going to help with picthes anyway. Four games a pitch on Saturday vs 4 games a pitch spread over two days is still going to be excessive use.
- 1 -
Capital Football
Submission to Wellington City Council
Draft Annual Plan 2008/09
Introduction
Capital Football is one of seven Federations affiliated to New Zealand Football. We
administer and develop football (soccer) in the Greater Wellington, Horowhenua-Kapiti
and Wairarapa regions.
Our playing numbers continue to grow significantly and the issue of grounds and
associated facilities is perhaps the biggest single issue facing the game in this region. We
welcome the opportunity to make a submission on Wellington City Council�s (WCC)
Draft Annual Plan as it relates to this issue.
Playing Numbers
We recently copied to WCC details of our playing numbers for this season. Highlights
from those numbers are as follows:
�
Junior players are up 2.6%;�
Junior teams are up from 737 to 802 (on the back of both an increase in playersbut also a move to smaller-sided teams);
�
Juniors top 9,000 registered players (including Nursery Grade numbers);�
Seniors are up 7.1% (evenly, men and women);�
Senior teams are up from 253 to 271;�
This continues a trend that has seen senior teams increase year on year, from 225in 2004 to 271 in 2008, an increase of over 20% in 4 years;
�
We now have approximately 4,000 registered senior players;�
A lot of the growth (in fact all of it for the juniors) is in the Wellington/WesternZone region
.- 2 -
What is harder to measure is the growing demand for football of some type over the
summer months, but it is increasing. This might be Futsal, 5-a-side, business house,
NZFC (National League), Nationa l Women�s League, Capital Football Academies for
elite players, the Hyundai A-League season, pre-season tournaments, Ethnic
Tournaments (WCC has been a great supporter of these) or Beach Football. Not all of
theses forms of football create demand for traditional football pitches, but many do.
Football as a game has been gaining in popularity in New Zealand for many years but we
have a few extra factors in our favour in the Greater Wellington region.
In particular, the arrival of Wellington Phoenix has been a major boost for the game and
it�s great to see our junior numbers up despite us having significantly increased our junior
affiliation fees this year. The �Phoenix Effect� has probably been more prevalent though
in Senior football, with the extra 15 men�s teams and 3 women�s teams seemingly driven
by a number of mature players returning to the game, or giving it a go for the first time.
As well as the rise of The Phoenix our local NZFC team, Team Wellington, has just
completed its best-ever season making the Final of the competition.
We anticipate these positive influences on our game continuing, with one huge extra
opportunity to grow our game leading into next season. In October/November of this year
New Zealand hosts the inaugural FIFA U-17 Women�s World Cup and Wellington is one
of four host cities. FIFA treats these sorts of tournaments as �legacy events� -
opportunities to grow the game on a sustained basis. We expect a significant surge in
interest in football leading into and after this tournament, particularly in the
girls/women�s game.
Grounds
Running out of grounds to play football on is just about the best problem that we could
have, but it�s still a problem requiring a solution. In fact, we label �grounds� as the
biggest single issue facing football in this region. When we say �grounds� we mean both
the number of grounds and the quality of grounds and associated facilities.
Whilst our playing numbers have been growing, over the last four years especially, our
grounds �stocks� have not. The only �new� grounds that football has picked up in that
time have been those at McAllister Park in 2007, whereby three rugby fields were
converted to two senior and one junior football fields. This reallocation was hugely
beneficial for us, in an area where the �pinch� is most acute i.e. the central city. However,
the benefit has been largely offset by the loss of other grounds. In 2007 we lost Newtown
Park # 2 to renovations for The Phoenix, and # 1 was all but lost as a temporary training
ground for The Phoenix. This year we have the use again of Newtown Park # 1 but we
await the loss of Cobham Drive, at which point we are back to square one.
Add into the mix the loss of all the fields at Karori Park while it was redeveloped, and the
ongoing restrictions there, and there has never been more pressure on our grounds. This
redevelopment will of course have tremendous longer-term benefits for football (and
other activities), but it has put a short-term strain on our game, and that continues.
- 3 -
Further pressure has been created by the frequent closure or restrictions on grounds such
as Anderson Park and The Velodrome.
As well as the number of grounds available to football we are keenly interested in the
quality of grounds. As our numbers grow we are playing more ga mes per ground, and
regularly using more grounds that in the past would have been considered �back-up�
grounds. The more the standard of our grounds suffers with over-use, the more we
threaten to reduce or reverse the growth that we�re generating � because the quality of the
playing or training experience diminishes, and matches and training sessions are
cancelled. Football is a sport that relies on a reasonable surface to play the game.
We have worked very hard over the close-season with WCC, other Councils and Schools
to establish some �new� junior fields; partly to accommodate growth in playing numbers
but in particular to accommodate a reduction in some team sizes. We are moving towards
a model that provides children more time and space to play, on appropriately-sized fields.
This model, or variations of it, is well established in other footballing nations, and indeed
in parts of New Zealand, The move has created a need for more playing slots. We�ve
managed our way through the changes coming into force this year, but face another
challenge next year as the next age -group changes over.
It�s taken a lot of work and assistance from the likes of WCC to �create� more junior
grounds but we�re using some School fields, reconfiguring some grounds (made possible
by introducing portable goalposts), and squeezing in small pitches where we can.
Although it �s been hard work the task of finding new junior-sized grounds, especially the
smaller ones that we�ve needed this year, has been easy compared to finding senior
grounds.
At the beginning of this season we didn�t think we�d be able to cope with the increase in
senior numbers that were being indicated to us. We asked Clubs if they�d consider
playing on Sundays because the grounds situation was so tight. (That in itself wouldn�t be
a miracle solution because it�s still another match on the same grounds, but it would free
up some time slots if the grounds could handle the extra load.) That was rejected, but we
continue to send the message that we have to be more flexible around our limited grounds
resources. Ultimately we did get every team into a competition and the season is
underway � but we are at maximum capacity. In fact, we did turn away a couple of late
entries whereas in previous years we would have tried to sneak them into a league at the
last minute.
What is Football Doing to Address the Issue?
As a sport we are undertaking the following activities to maximise the use of grounds:
�
Working closely with WCC and other Councils to ma nage the week-to-weekpressures, and plan the longer-term;
�
Being more collaborative between Clubs and with the Federation to co-ordinateplanning for facilities;
�
Capital Football is prompting discussion on being more flexible with our playingtimes, days, locations, etc.;
- 4 -
�
Moving towards portable goalposts that enable more flexible use of the grounds;�
Sourcing new junior grounds and reconfiguring existing ones;�
Working more closely with Schools to use their grounds (WCC has been helpfulin this regard);
�
Traveling a little more to areas in which grounds are under less stress;�
Training away from goalmouths (some of us better than others);�
Playing some junior football across senior pitches, but given the heavy demandsof senior football there is limited ability to do this.
What Other Solutions are There?
More new fields � we acknowledge that space is very limited in Wellington City, and that
with former landfills not being converted into sports fields, there is not a lot of
opportunity to �create� new fields.
Reallocating grounds between codes � we suggest that football�s utilisation rates are now
so high that the rates point to a reallocation being overdue. Perhaps this is more
operational than a Draft Annual Plan deals with but the point is relevant in the context of
this submission.
Greater investment in drainage, irrigation and ongoing maintenance � we think that the
quality of a lot of WCC�s football grounds is insufficient relative to the workloads we
place upon them. We acknowledge that even with greater investment they will still be
grass pitches with limited capacity, and will be subject to winter conditions, but the
quality of the surfaces could be improved with more resource dedicated to this area of the
budget. This is not to take anything away from the Parks and Gardens team which is
doing a good job in our view, within a restricted budget.
Artificial Turfs � we welcome the Council�s intentions to invest in artificial pitches.
Given the limiting geography of Wellington, and the continued growth of our
predominantly winter code, artificial pitches must be part of the solution.
Artificial pitches offer the chance to play football in almost any conditions. The challenge
for our members is to be flexible enough to engage with football outside of traditional
time-slots � this is part of the reason that we�ve been preaching flexibility for the last year
or so. We believe that once people experience the benefits of playing at an almostguaranteed
time, possibly when all other traditional winter sport is cancelled because of
the ground conditions, on a top-quality surface, the demand for time-slots will quickly
out-strip supply. There may some lingering perception that artificial surfaces make the
ball bounce 10m high and produce burns for players sliding on the ground, but
experience will quickly show otherwise. Some FIFA World Cup matches are now held on
artificial surfaces; that�s how good the new technology is.
Nairnville Artificial Pitch
We applaud and welcome the Council�s plan to build an artificial pitch at Nairnville Park.
- 5 -
Although some people will question investing in a training facility, rather than a fullsized
match facility, we acknowledge WCC�s findings that it is the training hours that
really take a toll on our grounds, more than playing hours.
In terms of location, we think Nairnville is a very good choice. As an example, Onslow
Junior Soccer Club is the biggest Junior Club in our Federation and really only has
Nairnville and local Schools for all its teams to train at. This was unsustainable last year
and we had to virtually close one of two senior pitches at Nairnville for senior play, so
that the junior teams has somewhere to train, and close the other one to junior training so
that we could play senior football on it. Even then both pitches were often closed.
We look forward to the artificial turf quickly proving itself as a quality surface, as it has
done thousands of times over in Europe in particular, and seeing the Council quickly
following up with some full-sized artificial pitches. This will enable us to schedule some
key fixtures with more confidence, get through more matches, and offer a top-quality
playing surface for everyone, but especially our players in elite programmes or teams.
This extends right though to The Phoenix when they cannot train on grass.
Summary
We ask the Council to recognise the special role that football plays in so many
households in the Greater Wellington area, and the growth in the numbers of those who
enjoy the game, both now and in the future. At a time when society is trying to find ways
of keeping people active and healthy football is delivering � in the face of all the other
pastimes competing for people�s time. The game is in good shape to grow but more than
ever that growth is limited by our grounds and associated facilities.
We ask that Wellington City Council continues its good work in moving towards
artificial turfs, but that it increases and accelerates its investment in this regard. Whilst
it�s encouraging to see plans for new pitches extending out to 2017/18 we don�t believe
football can wait that long. Investment in the Wellington City area is needed much
sooner; we�d like to see greater and earlier emphasis on proposed developments such as
Wakefield Park.
We would welcome the opportunity to support this paper with an oral submission.
Please let me know if you require any further information.
Keith Palmer
General Manager
Founder
I can't say I have done any in depth research into it, but the rugby pitch beside Tawa's ground was unused all Saturday and wouldn't the wind tunnel, Kilbirnie park, be better used with 2 football pitches...(ok possibly not the best example, but you get the idea).
Just a thought
To be fair to WCC this has happened in certain cases. McAlister Park for example used to be all rugby but now sports two full size football pitches.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
We need more pitches and more training areas ,a lot of the damage is done by mid week training and Kids footy ,perhaps some all-weather pitches specifically for training and children's football would help,theres nothing more deppressing than trying to coach a bunch of eight year olds in a swamp ,hardly a great introduction to the beautiful game!
Is the council currently even attempting to identify any new areas for pitches or doing any analysis on what may be needed?
I don't see any point in trying to shuffle and re-shuffle fixtures the fact is that football is growing exponentially in popularity and more space is needed ,and as far as ratepayers money is concerned then the drainage debacle at Karori should only serve as a lesson in what not to do!
Kiwi Jambo2008-05-27 20:33:38
The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
Certainly, we should find out who is considering this issue at Council and see if we can send letters/submissions of our own.
Is the council currently even attempting to identify any new areas for pitches or doing any analysis on what may be needed?
Hm, is this really the level of reason on this site- cos if it is its dissapointing.
I think you'd do a lot worse than the current crop of council lackeys when it comes to support for football, and i bet you were there cheering for the Nix v. LA in Dec.
Quite apart from the ground issue, of which as a player i am well aware of the limtiations having played on the Velodrome three weeks ago, WCC has been very supportive of football in the region and does not deserved to be bagged like that-
Someone approaches them to run a Futsal open day to launch Futsal in Colelges and they oblige, invite down the Phoenix and YF and 500 people experience the game in Civic Square, BEach Football? no worries mate, we'll take that one on too- Phoenix want to bring Bex to Wgtn- why don't we run an open trainiging sessiona nd get 10,000 school kids along to experience football fever first hand. a very ignorant post indeed.
even this weekends charity match vs the chinese selection is a case in point-if the council didn't care they just wouldn't respond- they have no special mandate to support football, they just choose to cos:
A) it makes sense to support a growing proposition
B) WCC is filled with sport and football loving individuals (myslef included) who advocate daily, for football, for phoenix and for YF-
and as for your second point quoted above- the answer is yes, the Council are investigating new areas for pitches and what is needed- especially for state of the art artificial pitches.
Long may football grow and long may the council support it despite the ignorance of some as to what has already been achieved
Salmon072008-05-27 22:12:16
Salmon swim upstream
i could never forget Culture Kicks-13 hours in wet socks
I just ask for a little balance
Salmon swim upstream
Queenslander 3x a year.
Queenslander 3x a year.
There's two ways to go here.
Without bleating on too much, we are spoilt in this country - and people don't appreciate it. Many things, particularly including resources, and, football pitches.
I guess, we pay tax (or - 'subs') too.
For THIS reason, it could be argued that we could, should, can, and will expect a LOT more.
Has somebody holding any ilk on here thought about introducing ACC into these submissions to the council?
From personal experience, whatever Matty Dillon is (hopefully) getting from ACC...along with the couple hundred they graciously decreed to myself - plus treatment costs, scans - could've been saved if Fortress Wakefield was tended to with a little more care.
Reckon you can pass for over 35 ?

Some low-league teams have many of their games cancelled - which is unfair, whilst us playing in higher grades have to make do with really crap parks.
last saturday i played for both the 1st and 2nd XI (Varsity) at Kelburn Park. Well, before those two games, the Council had 2 kids games on in the morning.
VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life
Sort of right but for the wrong reasons. These new artificial pitches really are impressive. Firstly when they are laid, they will lay the flat so you get a carpet like pitch, secondly its almost impossible to tell the difference between them and grass pitches.
People seem to have a negative picture of artificial pitches in their head but I swear they are better than grass pitches.
Founder
