Trialist
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Hi!

My name is Joachim. I’m a Norwegian guy who is in the process of establishing an extensive website on the 1990 World Cup (www.italia1990.com). 

A big part of the project is going through each and every one of the qualifying matches for that tournament, and as you will know, New Zealand played two First Round matches against Chinese Taipei (Taiwan), both on home turf, in Wellington and in Auckland respectively. These matches ended in 4-0 and 4-1 wins for you lot. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find anything about these two fixtures other than a Youtube clip showing the five goals from the second leg, a Darren McClennan hat-trick included. 

I am looking for newspaper articles, information about the NZ team from late 1988 (manager, info on the players, anything), social media postings...is there anyone with historical knowledge on the NZ national team on this forum? 

Sincerely
«kaltz» (Joachim Aasan)
Overseas
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Transfermarkt has the lineups from those games (and the other qualifying matches) if that's any help

https://www.transfermarkt.com/chinese-taipei-taiwan-_new-zealand/aufstellung/spielbericht/3176663

Nice website btw... love the match report of the 1-0 victory for Fiji over Australia
Phoenix Academy
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Here are a couple of images from the series programme:

1.jpg 5.7 MB

5.jpg 2.26 MB

I've added scans of the programme, and clippings of previews / match reports from Soccer Express (New Zealand's weekly football newspaper from the time 07 Dec 1988, 14 Dec 1988, 21 Dec 1988) to a dropbox folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/naz5p73y7aywstz/AAAqvryfy71naEkwqwhyaYCsa?dl=0
Trialist
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Wibblebutt
Transfermarkt has the lineups from those games (and the other qualifying matches) if that's any help

https://www.transfermarkt.com/chinese-taipei-taiwan-_new-zealand/aufstellung/spielbericht/3176663

Nice website btw... love the match report of the 1-0 victory for Fiji over Australia

Thank you!

Yes, I do have a source already for the line-ups, which I should've pointed out, but I appreciate any help, so thank you for posting. And I must admit I sometimes forget about Transfermarkt as a source, so this is a very good reminder, and hopefully the player data (ages) can be trusted. They are reliable when it comes to stuff from today, but I have little experience of them when it comes to data from a bygone era. 
Trialist
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wibbler
Here are a couple of images from the series programme:

1.jpg 5.7 MB

5.jpg 2.26 MB

I've added scans of the programme, and clippings of previews / match reports from Soccer Express (New Zealand's weekly football newspaper from the time 07 Dec 1988, 14 Dec 1988, 21 Dec 1988) to a dropbox folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/naz5p73y7aywstz/AAAqvryfy71naEkwqwhyaYCsa?dl=0
 Thank you!

That is superb! This is a unique source and priceless material, so I am very grateful! I will try and draw as much information from this as I possibly can. Excellent!
Trialist
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Wibblebut: Thanks for the comment regarding the page. 
As you will understand, it is far from the finished article yet. I, and another bloke, have been working on the website (very much part-time) and the 1990 qualification as such for more than five years already, and we've only really completed the UEFA and the CONMEBOL sections, so this is very much a work in progress. In addition to that, not being English-speaking (-writing) of origin does obviously limit the level of the language somewhat, but we're trying to at least be informative in regards to context. I did the entire CONMEBOL section for the page, and I am quite pleased with the outcome. I look forward to continuing work on the OFC confederation, too, learning to know about the participants as I go about it. I do hope to have a fairly clear idea of Kevin Fallon as a coach, for example, by the time the OFC section has been completed (it'll probably take approximately half a year). 
Trialist
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I am already learning something new: I had thought it was Kevin Fallon (the father of Rory Fallon, a striker who did well playing professionally in England) who was the NZ team coach for the 1990 qualification, but it turns out it was actually John Adshead, and I can only assume he'd been brought in due to some disappointing results leading up to the WC qualification, and of course also due to his managerial dimension, having led you through the 1982 World Cup. 

Speaking of: There must also be a whole lot of literature available about the NZ team's feats in the Spain tournament, especially as you were up against three such mighty footballing nations as the Soviet Union, Brazil (THAT Brazil) and Scotland. 
Phoenix Academy
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Kevin Fallon resigned shortly before these World Cup qualifiers. Soccer Express reports the reason given was a dispute with NZFA about players' daily allowance. But it did coincide with being shortly after a draw and 2 losses to Fiji.
kaltz
I am already learning something new: I had thought it was Kevin Fallon (the father of Rory Fallon, a striker who did well playing professionally in England) who was the NZ team coach for the 1990 qualification, but it turns out it was actually John Adshead, and I can only assume he'd been brought in due to some disappointing results leading up to the WC qualification, and of course also due to his managerial dimension, having led you through the 1982 World Cup. 

Speaking of: There must also be a whole lot of literature available about the NZ team's feats in the Spain tournament, especially as you were up against three such mighty footballing nations as the Soviet Union, Brazil (THAT Brazil) and Scotland. 
 
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wibbler
Kevin Fallon resigned shortly before these World Cup qualifiers. Soccer Express reports the reason given was a dispute with NZFA about players' daily allowance. But it did coincide with being shortly after a draw and 2 losses to Fiji.
kaltz
I am already learning something new: I had thought it was Kevin Fallon (the father of Rory Fallon, a striker who did well playing professionally in England) who was the NZ team coach for the 1990 qualification, but it turns out it was actually John Adshead, and I can only assume he'd been brought in due to some disappointing results leading up to the WC qualification, and of course also due to his managerial dimension, having led you through the 1982 World Cup. 

Speaking of: There must also be a whole lot of literature available about the NZ team's feats in the Spain tournament, especially as you were up against three such mighty footballing nations as the Soviet Union, Brazil (THAT Brazil) and Scotland. 
 

As I am reading through the first of the Soccer Express issues which you kindly provided, I am learning of Fallon's resignation shortly prior to the start of the qualification, yes. And it would appear that the return of Adshead did not go down so well with everyone connected with the football in the country? In addition to being charismatic, was he perhaps seen as something of a controversial manager? 
Starting XI
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Everyone loved Adshead, but those in football circles questioned his ability to coach and quite a few were miffed at his team selections, not so much for the Taiwan games, but for the games against Israel and Australia that followed.

Fallon had built a talented side that played good football, but the performances and results faded the close it came to world cup qualifying time. Fallon used many players and had a large number of games to prepare the team. Adshead then tore the squad up and built a team around the club side he coached at the time (Mount Wellington). In came players like Witteveen, Mason, Debenham, Kuiper, Levy, Gray, Jennison. All good players but they were not used much or at all by Fallon.

Adshead argued that he didn't have time to prepare a team, so he used Mt Wellington as a base and added some other players around them. A lot of talent was omitted. This made some sense for the Taiwan games, but it wore a bit thin by the time we lost 0-1 to Israel and 1-4 to Australia.
Starting XI
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wibbler, i hope you don't mind, but I grabbed those soccer express copies you shared.

soccer express was great. i'm gutted that i threw mine out one day a few years ago. if anyone ever wants to share or sell theirs, consider me keen
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reg22
Everyone loved Adshead, but those in football circles questioned his ability to coach and quite a few were miffed at his team selections, not so much for the Taiwan games, but for the games against Israel and Australia that followed.

Fallon had built a talented side that played good football, but the performances and results faded the close it came to world cup qualifying time. Fallon used many players and had a large number of games to prepare the team. Adshead then tore the squad up and built a team around the club side he coached at the time (Mount Wellington). In came players like Witteveen, Mason, Debenham, Kuiper, Levy, Gray, Jennison. All good players but they were not used much or at all by Fallon.

Adshead argued that he didn't have time to prepare a team, so he used Mt Wellington as a base and added some other players around them. A lot of talent was omitted. This made some sense for the Taiwan games, but it wore a bit thin by the time we lost 0-1 to Israel and 1-4 to Australia.
and then beat Aus 2-0 and drew 2-2 with Israel... pretty awesome results (only time we've ever beaten Aus in NZ in a WCQ)
Trialist
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A picture is beginning to emerge as I am realizing that Adshead's return as Fallon's successor sparked some controversy, not least in squad selection. Which players would you guys say were the strangest and most disappointing omissions for the World Cup qualification squads, players who had featured regularly under the previous regime? 

'Soccer Express' is an unrivalled source of information from that time. I am delighted to be able to read previews and reports which were written back then. The journalism appears quite blunt; they're not afraid to critisize when they feel something's been done poorly. It is a different style to UK journalism which I've read tons from through the years. I do wonder what 'Soccer Express' made of the Fiji matches the month before the start of the World Cup qualification? 
Trialist
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I'm reading something about John Adshead having taken 'an Auckland side' to China for a tournament just prior to the start of the World Cup qualification (so probably late November '88, or even just into December). There is no further explanation through the three 'Soccer Express' issues which were kindly brought to the limelight earlier in the thread, so I am curious: With Adshead being the Mount Wellington manager at the time, what 'Auckland team' had he taken to China, and which tournament was that, and who had their opponents been? It seems quite odd considering he was managing the leading Wellington club at this point. 
Starting XI
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Robert Ironside, Billy Wright and Fred de Jong all missed the losses against Israel and Australia, but were recalled for the last two games and had a huge influence on the team, which by this stage was playing very well.

The two premier New Zealand players domestically were Declan Edge and Mike McGarry. I think Edge may have been injured and McGarry got married during the Taiwan games and I'm not sure why he was not involved for the main games.

Oh, and Mt Wellington is in Auckland. I'm not sure why the Auckland results in the Chinese tournament were considered so significant.
Trialist
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Thank you for further input!

Ah, I ought to be embarrassed. I had just assumed that Mount Wellington is a Wellington club, without actually getting it verified. So it makes sense now how "Adshead had brought the Auckland club to China". 

I read a comment from Marty Jennison who said they were expecting the Taiwan team to be pretty identical to the teams they'd met in China regarding how they played, so they thought the trip to China (Guangzhou, I believe) had been valuable in that respect, too (and apparently Mt Wellington had been successful). 
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It's a common mistake :-)

The team that went to China was an Auckland representative team, made up of players from different clubs around Auckland, mainly Mt Wellington though.

I've been trying to find info on that Auckland tour. It's interesting to me that we would base a national team for World Cup qualifiers around a provincial team that had drawn against a Chinese club/province. Especially when, earlier in the year, the actual New Zealand team had beaten UEFA cup holders IFK Goteborg.

Also fascinated to know why Edge and McGarry didn't play a part.

I'm enjoying this convo. They're bringing back good memories for a life long All Whites fan :-)
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8aDhxPE4J9qPUZ2vLT9F6xjUy7npJFyp

This playlist has highlights from all the matches in that World Cup Qualifying campaign, including the two against Chinese Taipei.  

The match v Australia at Mt Smart was a great watch.  Fun/appalling fact - it was the curtain raiser for an exhibition rugby match (no, seriously...)
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Khalil Media
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8aDhxPE4J9qPUZ2vLT9F6xjUy7npJFyp

This playlist has highlights from all the matches in that World Cup Qualifying campaign, including the two against Chinese Taipei.  

The match v Australia at Mt Smart was a great watch.  Fun/appalling fact - it was the curtain raiser for an exhibition rugby match (no, seriously...)

Excellent! Previously, I had only managed to find the goals from the second of the two legs against Taiwan. Thank you.

Due to this being part of a major website project which I am working on, I try to find as many full matches as possible. Youtube only has a viewing of the goal from the away trip to Israel, whilst I've found the full 90 mins from the home leg against the Israelians with a French online collector of matches. The two Australia ties are both available in full via Youtube. 

Would you know whether it is possible, somehow, to find the entire Israel away match somewhere? 
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reg22
It's a common mistake :-)

The team that went to China was an Auckland representative team, made up of players from different clubs around Auckland, mainly Mt Wellington though.

I've been trying to find info on that Auckland tour. It's interesting to me that we would base a national team for World Cup qualifiers around a provincial team that had drawn against a Chinese club/province. Especially when, earlier in the year, the actual New Zealand team had beaten UEFA cup holders IFK Goteborg.

Also fascinated to know why Edge and McGarry didn't play a part.

I'm enjoying this convo. They're bringing back good memories for a life long All Whites fan :-)
I don't know whether or not I should be pleased I am not the only one who's made that mistake :) 

Thanks for taking the time in trying to find some information about that Auckland squad's trip to China. I am not sure whether perhaps earlier editions of 'Soccer Express' might have some? I just learnt that the travelling Auckland contingent were 'successful' over there. 

I also thoroughly enjoy the input in this thread. I've learnt a whole lot, and I am very grateful. Cheers, all!
Trialist
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Back to ask further favours: 

I was wondering whether the kind gentleman who offered me a view of four 'Soccer Express' editions around the time of NZ's two Chinese Taipei first phase WC qualification for Italia '90 matches, or indeed anyone else, would be able to provide me with views also of the two editions which dealt with the first of four second phase group stage matches - Israel away? So - the editions both the week prior and immediately in the wake after the tie? 

My apologies for the inconvenience. 'Soccer Express' from that era provides unique information, so it would be extremely handy to have a look. 

Thank you. 
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I am very impressed by your efforts in compiling information on the Oceania qualifiers for World Cup '90  - and your great website!
Of course, historical information on international football in Oceania is hard to find online. There is often not much available even on Wikipedia.
But I find that this is one of the best international football websites for information on past matches all over the world:
https://www.rsssf.com/
" The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation "
Many of the world's biggest football statistics experts and record keepers contribute, including from New Zealand and Australia.
It's a great place to find otherwise unavailable information on international football in Oceania and  even obscure information for example on British and European club teams touring New Zealand (major clubs used to tour Down Under regularly before the 1990's and would play the New Zealand national team in friendlies. The All Whites mostly played friendlies against club sides in NZ or while touring Britain to prepare for World Cup qualifying. International friendlies were rare.)
Oceania international football results:
1988 Oceania internationals (including World Cup qualifiers):
https://www.rsssf.com/intldetails/1988o.html
1989 World Cup qualiying matches:
https://www.rsssf.com/intldetails/1989o.html
Index to all New zealand international matches 1970 - 2019;
https://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz-intres.html
Full index of all Asia and Oceania countries national teams:
https://www.rsssf.com/tablesl/landen-intres.html#aso
Full Asia and Oceania index (before the 1990's Oceania sides usually had to qualify for World Cups through Asia):
https://www.rsssf.com/intland.html#asia
All international football index and links:
https://www.rsssf.com/intland.html
All international matches 1987 - 2004:
https://www.rsssf.com/intldetails/nm-overview.html
Index to the rsssf archive:
https://www.rsssf.com/archive.html
The search page:
https://www.rsssf.com/googlersssf.html
Also useful:
"The Archive of International Football Results" 
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Trialist
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Big Pete 65
I am very impressed by your efforts in compiling information on the Oceania qualifiers for World Cup '90  - and your great website!
Of course, historical information on international football in Oceania is hard to find online. There is often not much available even on Wikipedia.
But I find that this is one of the best international football websites for information on past matches all over the world:
https://www.rsssf.com/
" The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation "
Many of the world's biggest football statistics experts and record keepers contribute, including from New Zealand and Australia.
It's a great place to find otherwise unavailable information on international football in Oceania and  even obscure information for example on British and European club teams touring New Zealand (major clubs used to tour Down Under regularly before the 1990's and would play the New Zealand national team in friendlies. The All Whites mostly played friendlies against club sides in NZ or while touring Britain to prepare for World Cup qualifying. International friendlies were rare.)
Oceania international football results:
1988 Oceania internationals (including World Cup qualifiers):
https://www.rsssf.com/intldetails/1988o.html
1989 World Cup qualiying matches:
https://www.rsssf.com/intldetails/1989o.html
Index to all New zealand international matches 1970 - 2019;
https://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nz-intres.html
Full index of all Asia and Oceania countries national teams:
https://www.rsssf.com/tablesl/landen-intres.html#aso
Full Asia and Oceania index (before the 1990's Oceania sides usually had to qualify for World Cups through Asia):
https://www.rsssf.com/intland.html#asia
All international football index and links:
https://www.rsssf.com/intland.html
All international matches 1987 - 2004:
https://www.rsssf.com/intldetails/nm-overview.html
Index to the rsssf archive:
https://www.rsssf.com/archive.html
The search page:
https://www.rsssf.com/googlersssf.html
Also useful:
"The Archive of International Football Results" 
Thank you very much for your kind words and your wholehearted message! 

In creating a website like ours (the original idea was that of an acquaintance of mine, so while he's definitely the one behind the lay-out, I have so far been doing the bulk of our qualification and friendlies match reports), there's a number of important references and sources which we're depending on, and the RSSSF page is definitely a major one among them. I am very grateful for your effort of collecting vital reference points within the RSSSF archives; it is much appreciated. 

You are absolutely right regarding the difficulties in obtaining much information about various matches played out such a long time ago. While there are different websites which contain pure statistical data, they can not always be 100 % trusted, but then again we've set our standards high (not being cheeky!), and we want to verify information from at least two sources before accepting it as a truth. An example: When studying the full 90 minutes of matches, I've learnt that there are several miscalculations of times for yellow and red cards, substitution times and so on out there, and another thing which we're always striving to get correct is players' numbers. In a lot of cases we can't find any information on them whatsoever, and so video is often the solitary source which is 100 % reliable. Also, written reports on qualifiers taking place so long ago are typically very hard to track down. When there's no footage available, written information is essential, but how precise is it? How much trust can you put into an article written, for example, in 2015, regarding particular phenomena which occured during the Italia '90 qualification? These are all aspects which we've got to consider. I can definitely see all this become an even greater challenge when we commence work on the African and Asian confederations. For both UEFA and CONMEBOL, video material has been available (in Europe, only four or five out of 116 qualifiers are lacking in footage, while all 18 South America ties are available in full from video collectors out there). Not that we're surprised by this, as those two confederations were quite far ahead of the remaining ones at that time. Gathering information is a challenge, but a pleasant and rewarding one, I would say. 

Thank you again! It is contributions like yours (and from several others, too, in this thread) which we're so grateful of (my accomplice and I). 
Trialist
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Khalil Media
is this any use to you?
Ronny_Rosenthal.jpg 238.12 KB
Yes, my friend, any photos from these qualifiers are of interest, so thank you very much for posting. I do recognize Ricki Herbert fairly easily, while I am more uncertain to who the other NZ player pictured is. I am guessing this is Ronny Rosenthal about to score the solitary goal of the game in Tel Aviv? 

Would you know whom to credit the photo? 
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I think the other NZ player is Ceri Evans (total legend), and yes that's definitely Rosenthal.

Photo is from GPO in Israel, I think.
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Khalil Media
I think the other NZ player is Ceri Evans (total legend), and yes that's definitely Rosenthal.

Photo is from GPO in Israel, I think.

Yes, sorry, Rosenthal was quite an easy one to identify. I was attempting to suggest that this would be him just prior to scoring the game's only goal? 
Trialist
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Back with more daft questions: 
Would anyone happen to know the date of birth for Dave Witteveen? I am struggling to find much on him via Google, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 

Also: Am I right in suggesting that Tommy Mason was playing non-league football in England with Farnborough around the time of the WC '90 qualifying group stage (March/April 1989) ? 
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Tommy had been at Farnborough, but was playing for Mt Wellington in the NZ National League at the time of those games
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Khalil Media
Tommy had been at Farnborough, but was playing for Mt Wellington in the NZ National League at the time of those games

Cheers. 
I just remembered reading from the 'Football Express' issues around the time of the Chinese Taipei games (Dec '88) that he had wished the team best of luck from England. So he was back in Auckland by this point, then (Mar '89). 

Dave Witteveen remains someone difficult to trace via Google. 
Trialist
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Does anyone know the identity of the player to the left? The one to the right is Trent McClennan (edit: No, it can't be, as I am only now discovering that they're both substitutes for that clash in Sydney, while McClennan was indeed a starter). It is a screenshot taken from just prior to kick-off in the Australia v New Zealand WC qualifier in Sydney, March '89. I am suspecting it is one of the substitutes? Usually, you only see the eleven starters lined up on the grass during the playing of the national anthems, but Nigel Debenham, who started this game on the bench and then came on for an injured Danny Halligan on 41 minutes, was seen lined up, too, so this could well be one of the remaining three outfield substitutes. I know Roger Gray came on late in the game, while I do not know who the two unused, outfield substitutes were (perhaps could Peter Kuiper have been the back-up goalkeeper, although I do not have that confirmed).

Edit: I honestly have no idea as to who they are. Micheal Ridenton could be the one to the left?  

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That's Gary Lund on the left and Rodger Gray on the right
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reg22
That's Gary Lund on the left and Rodger Gray on the right

Thank you!

The commentator from the game (Australian Les Murray) points out that 'Garry Lund (I believe he spells his first name with two r's?) has reported sick', which I take as he'd probably have been in the starting line-up, and probably in Malcolm Dunford's place (?). So it appears he was still well enough to take up a position among the substitutes. Rodger Gray would come on for Dave Witteveen some ten minutes from time. 
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While Danny Halligan is easily recognizeable to the left of John Adshead on the All Whites' bench in the home qualifier against Australia (2 April 1989), would this be Dave Witteveen to Halligan's left? The quality of the screenshot is obviously far from perfect, but it would appear to be Witteveen, wouldn't it? 

Finding the full set of substitutes (five were allowed on the bench during the Italia '90 qualification) is often a difficult task. Halligan and Tony Levy would come on during the game, and Nigel Debenham was an easy spot while the cameras gave a quick glimpse of the New Zealand substitutes pre-kick-off, as they were lined up on the pitch next to the starting eleven. Was Peter Kuiper generally back-up 'keeper to Clint Gosling back then? Knowing Adshead's preference for Mount Wellington players, I wouldn't find it surprising, but I've been unable to identify the second choice goalkeeper so far in the All Whites matches which I've been studying. 
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In the red socks i'm pretty sure is Frank van hattum, reserve keeper
Chris Riley is at the far end of the second bench
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reg22
In the red socks i'm pretty sure is Frank van hattum, reserve keeper
Chris Riley is at the far end of the second bench

Chris Riley is an excellent spot!
In trying to compare this screenshot (the player whom I suggested was Dave Witteveen - I hadn't even taken into consideration the red socks, d'oh!) with other photos of Frank van Hattum, I definitely would not discard your suggestion. However, he was listed in Wikipedia as playing his final international in '86, although he was only 29 at the time of this qualifier. Any idea whether he was still available to the national team even in the wake of his final appearance in 1986? Perhaps he was doing his bit to aid the national team on a manager's request or something? 

Edit: It is probably easier identifying someone from watching footage rather than screenshots. 18.55 into this video is the frame which I captured: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PGZrLeHWDk&t=175s
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Dave Witteveen is on the second bench, with his face obscured by the person on the end - he's definitely not in the red socks.  He also sported a moustache back then, unlike the red socks guy :)
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Khalil Media
Dave Witteveen is on the second bench, with his face obscured by the person on the end - he's definitely not in the red socks.  He also sported a moustache back then, unlike the red socks guy :)
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Yes, Witteveen certainly did sport a cheeky 'tash during the away fixture against the Australians. I wasn't able to verify whether or not the 'red socks guy' actually had one. But you also reckon that he may be Frank van Hattum? I definitely think there's similarities. I just find it odd how he had played his final international in '86, and this was around two and a half years later. If he had officially retired from the national team, then what was he doing here? 

Only ten players from the starting line-up were seen during the rendition of the national anthem. I could not spot Malcolm Dunford. There's seven wearing tracksuit tops, and the one with the red socks is partially hidden as number four from the right. Nigel Debenham is always the easiest one to recognize with his fabulous moustache, but if this one with the red socks is van Hattum, he does appear to be smaller than the two next to him. Tony Levy far left? 

Edit: Michael McGarry is someone I've so far only read about; I've not seen him with my own eyes. Apparently, he was someone quite special around this time, but he hadn't featured so far since Adshead's comeback, perhaps due to the fact that he had declined to play in the Taiwan matches due to him getting married (?), or for whatever other reason not accepted to be part of that squad, and so had made himself unpopular with the management team? He ought to have been part of this set-up according to you people who remember this era well? 

Edit II: Perhaps the tall player in the trackie top far left could be Roger (Rodger?) Gray? 
Trialist
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The half-time reporter, who would conduct an interview with former All Whites skipper Steve Sumner. Who is he, though? 
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kaltz
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The half-time reporter, who would conduct an interview with former All Whites skipper Steve Sumner. Who is he, though? 
Ian Woodley

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