Match 22 vs Melbourne City | Sun 16th May | 6:05pm | SS7

Legend
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Uffie has said he's hoping Davila is back for the snakes, but he might not be.
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Hi team.

I want to clarify something with you all as a Jewish person in this group and a long time fan of the Phoenix.

Tomer Hemed celebration with the Kippah was not an Israel/Palestine thing but tonight started one of the most important religious holidays of Shavuot started that night. It’s a holiday remembering when God have Jews the Torah on Mt Sinai.

The Jewish holiday starts on sunset and Tomer is religious, he keeps Kosher at home and does Shabbat services often. He actually went to the synagogue after the game.

I hope it clarifies it, because it appears to be a lot of misinformation, and understandable considering there is a small Jewish community in NZ and lack of knowledge can happen.

I hope it clarifies it 😌
and 3 others
Marquee
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ballane
For you maybe for others they are one and the same. 
Yes, because I've been to countries which have bad foreign policy - and it doesn't stop the people being nice and the culture being interesting. A footballer and a few of his country men in Australia don't have any influence over what leadership does. As long as he's doesn't use his profile as a political platform I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's just celebrating his culture with a few people who are no doubt now friends of his.
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I think the first goal was mostly Devlin’s fault, most stupid back pass.
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number8
I think the first goal was mostly Devlin’s fault, most stupid back pass.

I agree. Laws maybe was a little flat footed, but the Devlin pass wasn't accurate, and if you're making that pass you better be damn sure the player you are passing it to will get it.
Starting XI
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Colvinator
number8
I think the first goal was mostly Devlin’s fault, most stupid back pass.

I agree. Laws maybe was a little flat footed, but the Devlin pass wasn't accurate, and if you're making that pass you better be damn sure the player you are passing it to will get it.

It did feel to me like Laws was favourite to get there but got beaten to it. Understand why he doesn't necessarily want to make a strong challenge in the box though.
First Team Squad
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alon222
Hi team.

I want to clarify something with you all as a Jewish person in this group and a long time fan of the Phoenix.

Tomer Hemed celebration with the Kippah was not an Israel/Palestine thing but tonight started one of the most important religious holidays of Shavuot started that night. It’s a holiday remembering when God have Jews the Torah on Mt Sinai.

The Jewish holiday starts on sunset and Tomer is religious, he keeps Kosher at home and does Shabbat services often. He actually went to the synagogue after the game.

I hope it clarifies it, because it appears to be a lot of misinformation, and understandable considering there is a small Jewish community in NZ and lack of knowledge can happen.

I hope it clarifies it 😌
Thanks for that Alon!

I did think there was a difference between his celebrations - the second one was an expression of his religious faith, like a player crossing themselves or kneeling in prayer as many footballers do around the world. A shame he got the yellow, but using props isn't allowed under the rules.
 
The first was one he's done before, but is obviously a bit of a fraught thing given recent events.
Legend
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since the Israeli fans started coming to the games he would run over to them and drape the flag over his head (he's done it three times now). Previously he'd shown a phoenix (ish) symbol with his hands. The prayer with the Kippah is a new one, and under FIFA's rules about head coverings and masks rightly yellow carded. Associating the celebrations alone with him supporting the conflict etc is a stretch but you only need to look at some of his social media accounts (Insta) and you can see where his support is. Logically you would expect him to be on his countries side, but I think there is more to it, most of his posts are claiming the victim's position in the conflict - which I'm not sure is entirely accurate. 
I'm perfectly happy for players to run to their own fanbase, Davila has his Mexican fans and Hemed has his Israeli fans. I'm also happy with the ref sanctioning the second celebration. What I don't like is the nix being dragged into a political war because they have an Israeli player on their books.
Marquee
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Nothing wrong with having a strong following with one's compatriots, and if they want to waive the flag that's their pride and joy on display (if the grounds allow that).  A bit different for the player though. I get it that he is a patriot, but he was playing at AAMI Stadium in Melbourne representing Wellington Phoenix, not the Israeli national team.  As such he is more limited in expressing his loyalty than his compatriots are.
I have no issues with his religious acknowledgment but he would have known it may get him a yellow card. If he did not, he does now, and that comes as a cost to the whole team (eventually). These things have to be taken into account. 
Marquee
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Yeah, personally I'd prefer he celebrates with his team mates first and his compatriots second. Be interesting in NZ whether or not he goes to celebrate with the Fever in the same way.
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Can somebody please clarify if Tomer Hemed has actually been to Wellington yet? Must be a bit strange for an imported player to be playing for a team that hasn't played in front of a home crowd in the city they are representing as yet so I totally understand and support his celebrations!


Legend
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I dont think he has. Only played 17 games for the Nix which would mean he's never played in NZ. signed in November 2020.
Season started 28th December 2020, Nix first game was in January 21. I think the team was in Aus in November.
One in a million
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I guess, looking at the time, that the Phoenix has landed.

Legend
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theprof
Ryan
Culture and identity and politics aren't the same. I had a look at his twitter and didn't see anything political. It was very well be that he just got close to the Israeli community in Australia and there's nothing political at all. 
you should check out his insta page, very political and obviously biased towards the Israeli point of view.
I'd imagine it would be very hard not to be political if you came from a country like Israel given its history and present day predicament. From memory he was celebrating like this prior to the recent events was he not? I'd also imagine that most Jews would be supportive of the Israeli Government in this situation and are unlikely to be too concerned with the thoughts of others.
Legend
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Napier Phoenix
theprof
Ryan
Culture and identity and politics aren't the same. I had a look at his twitter and didn't see anything political. It was very well be that he just got close to the Israeli community in Australia and there's nothing political at all. 
you should check out his insta page, very political and obviously biased towards the Israeli point of view.
I'd imagine it would be very hard not to be political if you came from a country like Israel given its history and present day predicament. From memory he was celebrating like this prior to the recent events was he not? I'd also imagine that most Jews would be supportive of the Israeli Government in this situation and are unlikely to be too concerned with the thoughts of others.

nah before the conflict broke he was celebrating his family trips, various birthday parties etc. Almost nothing about Israel, now its all Hamas firing rockets at Israel, poor us we are the victims.
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Correct. He would regularly speak at events concerning Israel with the Jewish community in Sydney and had a talk with Israeli embassy in Canberra... 

Napier Phoenix
theprof
Ryan
Culture and identity and politics aren't the same. I had a look at his twitter and didn't see anything political. It was very well be that he just got close to the Israeli community in Australia and there's nothing political at all. 
you should check out his insta page, very political and obviously biased towards the Israeli point of view.
I'd imagine it would be very hard not to be political if you came from a country like Israel given its history and present day predicament. From memory he was celebrating like this prior to the recent events was he not? I'd also imagine that most Jews would be supportive of the Israeli Government in this situation and are unlikely to be too concerned with the thoughts of others.
Marquee
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One of the lead stories on One News was about Tomer Hemeds celebration, no mention of the Phoenix coming back or the game on this weekend. All the stories around the Nix should be about their homecoming and their sacrifices to get here, not hijacked about politics.
WeeNix
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What rivalry is more passionate, Israel v Palestine or Nix v Perth distance derby?
Legend
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Ryan
One of the lead stories on One News was about Tomer Hemeds celebration, no mention of the Phoenix coming back or the game on this weekend. All the stories around the Nix should be about their homecoming and their sacrifices to get here, not hijacked about politics.

It’s just unprofessional. Didn’t happen in the EPL and shouldn’t happen here.  That said Fox, the Nix and the league allowed it earlier so they need to take responsibility too. 
Part of his job is to represent the club and attract as many people as possible to the football. 
Small goal celebrations commonly have religious tributes and I’ve no problem with that. 
But he’s a footballer not a politician, so management of all levels need to manage IMO and make clear what the expectations are.
Just listened to Paul Iffil on Between Two Beers talking about how ( rightly or wrongly) the club managed the media with him with an incident involving racial abuse. This is also a sensitive topic that needs management.
Legend
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The other thing is, to stereotype, that despite excellent work by many people in our multi-cultural society, much of our football is middle class and white. 
I got it brought home to me when I worked with some South Africans who growing up had machine gun patrols and barb wire fences simply to have a house, work and some sport on the weekends. 
We don’t often get confronted with what happened to allow us that middle class life.
Starting XI
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I think it's up to the league to set the rules on this. It shouldn't be up to each club to set its own rules. I imagine Talay wouldn't want to have to tell Hemed how not to celebrate, would clearly risk fracturing their relationship. 

I actually think the celebration he got booked for was less problematic than the flag one. Yes the yellow is correct, rules etc, but the flag part is the more contentious bit right now. A simple change to make would be to just say draping a non-club flag around you counts as a prop so it's a yellow for that (maybe additional fine or something too). 
Starting XI
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  • Ryan
    One of the lead stories on One News was about Tomer Hemeds celebration, no mention of the Phoenix coming back or the game on this weekend. All the stories around the Nix should be about their homecoming and their sacrifices to get here, not hijacked about politics.
    Which is why all this shyte should be taken away from the game. For many years football was uniting , and divisive displays were not tolerated. Then we had all the BLM nonsense and the Administrators sold their soul when they allowed all the taking the knee and BLM on shirts etc. Pure lunacy. The cats out the bag now, should have stamped on it at the start.
  • I dont watch football to see displays of religion or race, whatever side of the fence they come from.
Life and death
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Ryan
One of the lead stories on One News was about Tomer Hemeds celebration, no mention of the Phoenix coming back or the game on this weekend. All the stories around the Nix should be about their homecoming and their sacrifices to get here, not hijacked about politics.
Wrong, One also covered them coming through immigration at Wellington airport and an interview with Taylor.
Marquee
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Napier Phoenix
Ryan
One of the lead stories on One News was about Tomer Hemeds celebration, no mention of the Phoenix coming back or the game on this weekend. All the stories around the Nix should be about their homecoming and their sacrifices to get here, not hijacked about politics.
Wrong, One also covered them coming through immigration at Wellington airport and an interview with Taylor.
Wrong. The story with the interview with Taylor came in the sports news section, not the headline section.
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Joey Johns
What rivalry is more passionate, Israel v Palestine or Nix v Perth distance derby?
Not really appropriate to joke about an ongoing colonial apartheid ay. Hardly a rivalry when one side with all the power is actively oppressing and violently murdering the other.
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BLM nonsense? wow
Marquee
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When did we last lose? Must be near a record run?
Opinion Privileges revoked
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I don't think the "kippah" celebration is a problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of being Jewish. Draping oneself in the flag of the State of Israel, right now, is serious problematic though. Again: imagine if we had an American player running around in the Stars and Stripes while the US was bombing the shark out of Iraq or somewhere.
Legend
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Are there any Jewish people in Wellington? I remember seeing one in the Thorndon New World about 19 years ago, when I last lived in Welly. Dairy section & deli must have been separated enough. Sticks in the memory.

But imagine the chances of someone passing Hemed an Israeli flag if he scores at the ROF is low. But if someone does, would then be interesting if any of the crowd booed. Definitely sections of AAMI Park weren't happy with him, especially after his 2nd goal against Melb City.

Again someone needs to tell him that WSW, have a supporter base with a heavy Arab/Muslim background. In just over a week Nix will be in Parramatta, and Hemed will be getting a hostile reception for sure. Not cool to get his team mates caught up in an unnecessary sideshow. There are other ways to show support for his homeland, whilst in the employ of the Wellington Phoenix Football Club.
Legend
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In the 2018 New Zealand Census, 5,274 identified as having a Jewish religion
I'd expect a good number would live in Wellington - https://www.wjcc.org.nz/
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As a Jewish person from Wellington, there is a small community in Wellington but there won’t be many going to the game, due to it being Shabbat and the religious Jewish holiday of Shavuot. In Auckland, he will have a bit of support though
First Team Squad
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And I suppose also, Alon, that the Jewish community showing support to one of their own doesn't necessarily mean Israel flags, right? Not all Jewish people support Israel, because the diaspora means there's Jewish people all over the world. My mate's a Jewish guy from Scotland and he's always nonplussed when people ask if he supports Israel. He's like "naw, my team is just as bad though" 😂
Phoenix Academy
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You will find most Jewish people supporting Israel because when they hear chants like “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free” it kind of scares them and many Jews feel a responsibility to support Israel as it’s the only Jewish majority country in the world. Jews pray towards and for Jerusalem 3 times a day, and in the Passover meal we always say “next year in Jerusalem”. Whether they will bring Israel flags I’m not sure, but yes, majority of Jews in the world support Israel similar to how most Muslims support Palestine. They don’t view Tomer as a “Jewish player” but as an Israel, there are a few Jewish players in the A League, Connor Pain and Jordan Swibel from Sydney, but they don’t get the same fan fare
Opinion Privileges revoked
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alon222
You will find most Jewish people supporting Israel because when they hear chants like “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free” it kind of scares them and many Jews feel a responsibility to support Israel as it’s the only Jewish majority country in the world. Jews pray towards and for Jerusalem 3 times a day, and in the Passover meal we always say “next year in Jerusalem”. Whether they will bring Israel flags I’m not sure, but yes, majority of Jews in the world support Israel similar to how most Muslims support Palestine.

"Palestine will be free" scares only those who have convinced themselves that a free Palestine means mass murder of Jews.

... I had a long piece here about how ideas like that aren't healthy, but this forum ain't the place.
Phoenix Academy
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I think it depends how you look at it. Many Jews see it as a call of destruction, or Palestinians see it as a liberation call. This conflict is so complex, so many factors, so many different agents that’s impossible to simplify it down. Each sides thinks they’re right, each side has lied to another so many times, no side is perfect and both people want peace. I’m saying this as a Jewish person, with an Israeli passport who served in the IDF
Opinion Privileges revoked
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alon222
I think it depends how you look at it. Many Jews see it as a call of destruction, or Palestinians see it as a liberation call. This conflict is so complex, so many factors, so many different agents that’s impossible to simplify it down. Each sides thinks they’re right, each side has lied to another so many times, no side is perfect and both people want peace. I’m saying this as a Jewish person, with an Israeli passport who served in the IDF
I remember talking to a Nix fan who served with the British army in northern Ireland. I mentioned this to a friend of mine from Ireland - former member of Sinn Féin - who commented "didja get his car's licence plate?" I think he was joking. 

Discussion of possible futures for the Holy Land will be good for the "Off Topic" forum if anyone's interested. I think the only aspect of the conflict which is relevant here is whether Tomer Hemed should cool his patriotism down a bit in the current climate.
Legend
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Doloras I think the Fever should be more polite to a guest who has dropped by to provide context and engage on behalf of our striker.
Tino Rangitiratanga is something that scares many in NZ tbf.
IMO start an off topic thread to get more into it. Just my opinion though! Not sure what others think. 
Edit: oh that’s what you said. Onya sorry for not reading properly. 
And cheers Alon for your perspective.
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First Team Squad
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@alon22, thanks for your perspective on this - I didn't think the Fever forums would be the place for a relatively restrained and sensible commentary, but thank you for filling in a few gaps on the relation between the diaspora and Israel, as it differs to my own experiences and knowledge (probably based on your direct links to the country, as opposed to those Jewish people I know who have never been or never intend to go)

I hope you enjoy the game!

Match 22 vs Melbourne City | Sun 16th May | 6:05pm | SS7

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