Life and death
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almost 17 years
Woud definitely needs to be replaced. 2 of the goals today were his error alone. Without them it’s a 1-1 draw.  You can’t afford this at international level when the important games are essentially Knock-out. As said, Hay and Woud have a history together and Hay gave him a second chance after his last howler (where he did well) but you can’t have a hot and cold goalie, they need to be consistently sound.
First Team Squad
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Morning all, "hilites" from this morning's match - no better second time round to be honest...
Legend
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Napier Phoenix
Woud definitely needs to be replaced. 2 of the goals today were his error alone. Without them it’s a 1-1 draw.  You can’t afford this at international level when the important games are essentially Knock-out. As said, Hay and Woud have a history together and Hay gave him a second chance after his last howler (where he did well) but you can’t have a hot and cold goalie, they need to be consistently sound.

I've only seen the match highlights. I think he was a bit unlucky with the first goal, that ball was travelling. But yes could have done better with the pen, and 3rd was an absolute howler.

He just seems to consistently have trouble with balls coming to him along the deck. You just can't do that if you want to be a top keeper.

Actually from highlights alone, seems AWs weren't far off making it 2-2 at least in the 2nd half, before Woud's howler.
Legend
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/football-lacklustre-all-whites-lose-to-jordan-in-abu-dhabi/7VKBY4PHSOEF6G7V4OJNSMQO5U/

Jordan were the toughest opponents New Zealand had faced since the match against the Republic of Ireland in November 2019. The west Asian side played a staggering 24 games last year and it showed, as at times they had the cohesion and fluidity of a club team.
Moar stars
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almost 12 years
If Woud wasn't there, it's a different game.
WeeNix
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Very much worth keeping in mind this is the second to last friendly the team will have before qualifiers, so the need to experiment is there. Had the qualifiers all sat in the window then there would be less need to try new players, but the majority of that squad won’t be available for the first two games. 

The guys in Finland, Sweden, Norway won’t start their club seasons until after that break, so he needs to get them involved now if he wants them to play cohesively in March. US based guys will be two or three weeks in, so also could be allowed, though bit less likely. That’s likely the reasoning behind Rogerson starting, as he could very well have to start vs PNG and Fiji. It’s that logic that could see Searle play vs Uzbekistan, though Hay might put all his eggs in the Sail basket for those two games come March.

I would’ve liked to see the 4-3-3, especially without Joe Bell playing, and use Just and Rogerson wide, in their more natural positions. I thought Rogerson showed a lot of ticker, but just isn’t great trying to be a hold up man, especially next to Wood, he’s much more similar to Champness than Wood as a player. The formation also seemed too narrow, and Singh didn’t do too much. Stamenic looked solid, especially when he switched with Lewis.

Trouble with this window is that most of the players haven’t played in a while, so you just lose that slight edge. Of the guys who played today:
Woud last played a club game November 2nd;
Tuiloma November 4th; 
Reid May 30th; 
De Vries November 28th;
Stamenic December 5th;
Just December 4th;
Rogerson November 1st.
Only four of the starting 11 have played a competitive club game in the last two months. Come March, everyone will be either in season or in the final week of pre-season, so should be better then.

As for Woud, his body language just seems off, it could be rustiness from not playing, but for all three goals he kind of buried his head in the ground, as opposed to looking angry/motivated. Even with the weak shots they’d take from far out, I felt slightly worried. Compare that with Marinovic, who might not be taller, but just feels so much bigger and more imposing, which just breeds more confidence. You have to think Woud is at best third choice now, and that might only be dependent on Tzanev’s vaccination status. Despite that, it’d be a massive call to throw in Searle as a 21 year old debutant against Uzbekistan, so Woud could get a chance at redeeming himself in a couple days.
Phoenix Academy
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Upon reflection I'm not as salty now as I was at 545 when the final whistle went.  A bit of an experimental side of players who hadn't played competitive football in a couple of months let alone played together were always gonna have it rough against a very well organised and well drilled Jordan side. In a way it'd probably good they got this defeat out or the way early. A lot of the boys probably haven't experienced that side of the game after such a successful last 6 months. I think it will do well to send a message of what can happen if you let the intensity slip. Better those lessons get learnt now that come March. A few more days training together is a chance to build up some more cohesion and I expect they'll be much better prepared for the Uzbekistan clash. That said you have to imagine Uzbekistan will be much tougher opposition than Jordan. Even if we lose that one as well I'd be happy if we come out looking much more competitive and more fluent in our game plan. 

A little side note on this morning's game. We never really challenged him or even got many shots in close range but I can't help but feel their goalie wouldn't have been up for it if we'd managed to create more sustained pressure and chances in the final third. He really didn't seem that tidy. Oh well onwards and upwards!
Marquee
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As posted above, when looking how out of match practice our lot is, compared to a decent team playing their 24th international in a calendar year I think we can be disappointed but not defeatest.

Stamenic looked quality again, but missed Bell alongside of him whose work rate allows him to float more.

Singh was AWOL surprisingly, and Just was missing for large parts as well. Lewis looked ok, just a little slow with his decision making, perhaps due to a step up in quality from the A League.

Payne did himself no favours, Tuiloma no RB and WOULD is to fragile to keep playing.

I feel for Rogerson, worked his arse off, but never really had anything to work with from an attacking sense. Grieve looked interesting in his short cameo. Energetic, but maybe a yard slow to be really threatening. Hopefully being in a pro set up he can get a little quicker.

Still I thought it was an even game really, and we were missing IMO a host of starters (Marinovich, Boxall, Bell, Thomas, Barbs and on current form Rojas)

So maybe the depth isn't actually too bad all things considered.
Starting XI
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almost 17 years
Watching the YouTube replay now. Really rate Spoons as a commentator.  The others... Not so much.
Trialist
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over 2 years
Yeah useful hit out but on reflection I’m not sure how many of the “fringe” players really put their hands up. 

Rogerson worked hard but didn’t offer too much. De Vries a couple of mistakes and first 2 goals came down that side. Payne with the mistake for the 3rd. Billy T solid as on defence but doesn’t offer too much as an attacking fullback. Thought Lewis did ok but caught on the ball a few times.

Biggest worry for me is Woud. I feel with Marinovic in goal we don’t lose that game. That’s a few too many mistakes in goal now in a NZ shirt and we just can’t afford that in WCQ. On his days he’s awesome but the mistakes are a concern.

Understandable to expect some rust and we cleary dropped off in the last 20  with a lot of players out of season. Hoping to see a couple changes and a bit more fluidity on Wednesday.

WeeNix
200
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Not a great performance but if Boxall, Thomas and Stefan were playing you get the sense this might have been a draw today. Thomas would make a huge difference to the midfield especially.
Starting XI
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Probably Just's best game in a white shirt so far.
One in a million
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Greive and Just were really only two who got a pass mark from me. Disappointing being dispossessed because of dwelling on the ball in midfield. Disappointing passing out from the defence. Lack of combination in attacking third.

Legend
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coochiee
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/football-lacklustre-all-whites-lose-to-jordan-in-abu-dhabi/7VKBY4PHSOEF6G7V4OJNSMQO5U/

Jordan were the toughest opponents New Zealand had faced since the match against the Republic of Ireland in November 2019. The west Asian side played a staggering 24 games last year and it showed, as at times they had the cohesion and fluidity of a club team.

Yep. That’s almost club team numbers.
Legend
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Only Just, Stamenic and Greive enhanced their reputations there for mine.
Woud just looks depressed. Lewis frustrated (probably missing Cammy who’s Hearts team nearly upset Celtic). Singh off the boil, but also came in for some close marking at times.
Probably this Jordanian team is a step up from previous opponents. And we were missing incision from our FBs and wide forwards. 
Guess resting Bell and others we were finding out things. But that may be that injuries or form dips for our first team could be a real problem.
Starting XI
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over 9 years
Disappointing result, but rather now than a blip in the qualifiers come March. 

Already alluded to by the other posts in this thread, but missing a few certainties in that starting lineup was absolutely the difference. Not sure what's up with Woud, can be so good at times, yet remain so fragile in between the sticks. You need more certainty and confidence in the guy with the gloves at this level, seeing that this morning doesn't exactly give anyone any sky high confidence going forward. Get the feeling that with Marinovic, Sail or even Tzanev in there and the game ends up a draw.

Ho hum result and performance overall, but from this I'm expecting a better showing against Uzbekistan after this. 
First Team Squad
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Marto
Watching the YouTube replay now. Really rate Spoons as a commentator.  The others... Not so much.
Jake's doing a great job.  And I'll take Pine over Dewhurst 11 times out of 10...
Legend
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almost 9 years
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/127620377/rusty-all-whites-left-with-more-questions-than-answers-after-loss-to-clinical-jordan

Hay said they would both be disappointed with their decision-making, but noted there had been positive moments mixed in with the bad. He said Tuiloma had been solid in an unfamiliar position, where he was instructed not to expend too much energy getting involved on attack due to his lack of playing time since the Major League Soccer season ended in November.

The All Whites came flying out of the gate and pressed Jordan hard, but the only chances they generated were a couple of shots for Wood and Elijah Just that were easily dealt with. After Wood’s penalty, they didn’t create a lot as they tried to draw level for a second time, with a Sarpreet Singh free kick early in the second half that was sent over the bar the only major exception.

Singh had a quiet night playing at the tip of a midfield diamond and Hay revealed afterwards that he has been managing a groin injury. Joe Bell was absent with injury but could yet feature against Uzbekistan, and in his absence, Marko Stamenic was tasked with playing a pivotal role at the base of midfield.

Hay made it clear ahead of these matches that he needed to give players opportunities ahead of March, and he said this result wouldn’t change his approach against Uzbekistan, who lost 3-0 to Jordan in October but had a 3-0 win over South Sudan earlier this week.

Surprised to see that Uzbek verus Jordan result from last year. So maybe the 2nd game could be the easier of the two. But from having a look at the Uzbek FA website, their national team also has been in camp for several weeks over their winter club off season.
Legend
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Pretty clear that the changes made to introduce players to the squad had everyone playing more timidly than normal. We lack fluidity with the ball, the midfield diamond didnt work well, perhaps due to familiarity or injuries etc, Woud cost us two goals pure and simple, both near post shots he should have stopped and until he gets that sorted he should never be seen in a yellow jersey again. Sail, Maronovic have to be our two best keepers at the moment and Stefan hasnt been setting the world alight with his team. I didn't think Rogerson added much, sure his energy was great but so inaccurate with his touch and passing. Waine/McCowatt are better options, along with maybe Kosta? Clearly this group is lacking some of our stronger players. LB and RB will be different for starts, DM will see Bell walk back into the squad, Stamenic might see himself in a more central place - he showed more when Lewis sat in the DM role second half.
Pretty disappointing but as far as a freindly game is concerned I'm sure Hay learned a lot about his squad and where he can improve things.  
Phoenix Academy
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over 9 years
Given we didn’t play in 2020 or early 2021 we are still working out our preferred playing style(s) and personnel. 

After working out the core of the team and style of play over late 2021 these matches are so essential to finalise the last 20%. 

After this mornings games it’s clear Stamenic is a potent 8 but I’m not sure we can assess if he can deputise as a 6 given, with the diamond midfield and no forward runs from the fullbacks, he had such limited passing options in transition. If Cacace was bombing down the left and (whoever has the engine on the right was doing the same) it would have been a more relative test of his capability.

However for certain we can say Woud is not up to it. Someone else has said it but the body language of your GK and communication sets the tone for the back 4. I would feel anxious and timid playing in front of him, nervous about playing the ball back etc- he just needs to go away and play somewhere and get some confidence. That match and the Olympics have shown Sail and Stefan are the options.

Tuiloma was a very curious selection especially with a formation where the wingbacks provide the width. The lack of forward runs from the wing backs and narrowness of the diamond meant Chris Wood was coming out far too wide to receive the ball. You want him near the box not out there so that formation and set up was average from Danny. Better to have played a 4-3-3 - would have suited Just, Rogerson and Wood much better. 

Lewis doesn’t appear to have the mobility to play as an 8 at this level.  He always gives a hundy but the step up from the A League is a lot unless you are bossing the A League.

Finally the commentary touched on this. We lost a lot of first and second phase ball. The WCQ are going to be an intense physical battle and we won that in 2009 with a very strong side. I can’t see that same physical dominance in this side. Compare that to Australia who just have so much tenacity and strength. I’d like to see more aggression on Wednesday. 

Anyway- lots to take from this match. Let’s see what’s learnt from it. 
and 3 others
WeeNix
390
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almost 11 years
I didn't think we were that bad. Considering we have a make shift back 4 including 2 players with little recent game time 1 of whom was debut. Plus the rest or the guys how are in mid season break. Nixs players had a runny nose so they haven't played much in past month. 
Payne was bang average giving ball away softly which led to 2 goals. Lewis slow on ball. Rogerson offered little. Woud again let himself down, but that first goal was hit pretty well. 
The prospect of Bell, Staminic, Thomas and Singh as a potential diamond excites me. Greaves while early days impressed me with his 10 minutes played with intent.  
Starting XI
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over 11 years
Who is the second keeper? He can't be worse than Would.
Starting XI
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about 17 years
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.
Starting XI
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over 8 years
Marinovic has joined the squad, presumably to start in the second game.
Life and death
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almost 17 years
you've got to be kidding. based on the 2 very recent poor displays by Woud, almost any keeper of A League or NZ National League standard would be as good
reg22
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.
Starting XI
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almost 7 years
Napier Phoenix
you've got to be kidding. based on the 2 very recent poor displays by Woud, almost any keeper of A League or NZ National League standard would be as good
reg22
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.

Must be some other reason he's forged a nice career in Europe and Asia with 50 pro appearances at 22 then

I don't have faith in him either for the starting spot as he's shown no improvement in his concentration and ironing out his mistakes (probably even regressed in these respects), combined with blatantly diminished confidence. Not sure he makes my full-strength squad either. However he's still an incredibly talented, albeit raw, shot-stopper with high potential. To call him NL standard based off two games is strange
Starting XI
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mrsmiis
Napier Phoenix
you've got to be kidding. based on the 2 very recent poor displays by Woud, almost any keeper of A League or NZ National League standard would be as good
reg22
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.

Must be some other reason he's forged a nice career in Europe and Asia with 50 pro appearances at 22 then

I don't have faith in him either for the starting spot as he's shown no improvement in his concentration and ironing out his mistakes (probably even regressed in these respects), combined with blatantly diminished confidence. Not sure he makes my full-strength squad either. However he's still an incredibly talented, albeit raw, shot-stopper with high potential. To call him NL standard based off two games is strange
Seems like people forgot how he performed the game after his Olympics howler. He's got plenty of what it takes to be a top keeper on his day, he just needs to put it together regularly. He's still young so has plenty of time to develop. He's clearly currently low on confidence and consistency comes with experience. Give him some time with his new club to get back to his best and let him fight for a spot in the squad with Marinovic/Sail/Paulsen/Tzanev/Searle/anyone else. 

Danny backs him, he's made that clear in the past so I wouldn't be surprised to see him part of the squad come March.
Starting XI
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almost 17 years
mrsmiis
Napier Phoenix
you've got to be kidding. based on the 2 very recent poor displays by Woud, almost any keeper of A League or NZ National League standard would be as good
reg22
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.

Must be some other reason he's forged a nice career in Europe and Asia with 50 pro appearances at 22 then

I don't have faith in him either for the starting spot as he's shown no improvement in his concentration and ironing out his mistakes (probably even regressed in these respects), combined with blatantly diminished confidence. Not sure he makes my full-strength squad either. However he's still an incredibly talented, albeit raw, shot-stopper with high potential. To call him NL standard based off two games is strange
At the end of the day he's not playing week in week out.  Is this because he's been found out on the training field, we don't know.

What we do know is three other kiwis are playing well week in week out right now with one more hopefully joining this group, pushing Would way down the pecking order:

Marinovic, Taznev, Paulsen and soon Sail.

Would should not be back in a senior/U23/youth side until he's regularly between the sticks for a club team again.
Legend
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almost 9 years
Marto
mrsmiis
Napier Phoenix
you've got to be kidding. based on the 2 very recent poor displays by Woud, almost any keeper of A League or NZ National League standard would be as good
reg22
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.

Must be some other reason he's forged a nice career in Europe and Asia with 50 pro appearances at 22 then

I don't have faith in him either for the starting spot as he's shown no improvement in his concentration and ironing out his mistakes (probably even regressed in these respects), combined with blatantly diminished confidence. Not sure he makes my full-strength squad either. However he's still an incredibly talented, albeit raw, shot-stopper with high potential. To call him NL standard based off two games is strange
At the end of the day he's not playing week in week out.  Is this because he's been found out on the training field, we don't know.

What we do know is three other kiwis are playing well week in week out right now with one more hopefully joining this group, pushing Would way down the pecking order:

Marinovic, Taznev, Paulsen and soon Sail.

Would should not be back in a senior/U23/youth side until he's regularly between the sticks for a club team again.

He was the regular starting keeper at Almere until he got injured. But yes he also seems to have had a poor season there, with some bad errors. But who knows really, or we ever saw from the Dutch 2nd tier was a few mins highlights. Plus whole team was obviously struggling. They have continued losing since he left for Japan (now dead last).

Hopefully he can become the starting keeper at Kyoto Sanga and regain his confidence. But if after a few months, he's not regularly between the sticks, a loan deal to a J2 team (reasonable level) wouldn't be a bad option.

He's just turned 23, that's young for a keeper.
Legend
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over 16 years
with the number of keepers we have playing at decent levels I'd be surprised to see Woud given another crack, not playing regularly in his own team, has had some major moments of switching off mid game which have cost us goals - this is simply not international standard - especially when you've got the likes of Sail performing relatively well, as well as Paulsen (although young), even Marinovic is playing regularly - even if he is conceding a few at the moment.
Starting XI
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over 8 years
theprof
with the number of keepers we have playing at decent levels I'd be surprised to see Woud given another crack, not playing regularly in his own team, has had some major moments of switching off mid game which have cost us goals - this is simply not international standard - especially when you've got the likes of Sail performing relatively well, as well as Paulsen (although young), even Marinovic is playing regularly - even if he is conceding a few at the moment.
Can't see Hay calling up both Paulsen and Sail for the March window though, would leave the Nix with only Henry Gray - means probably one spot behind Sail & Marinovic to be decided between Searle/Tzanev/Woud. 

Rightly or wrongly, as an established member of the squad and long time age group rep I think he has the inside running on the other 2, especially since he's been given minutes over them regularly by Hay.
Legend
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almost 9 years
Nelfoos
theprof
with the number of keepers we have playing at decent levels I'd be surprised to see Woud given another crack, not playing regularly in his own team, has had some major moments of switching off mid game which have cost us goals - this is simply not international standard - especially when you've got the likes of Sail performing relatively well, as well as Paulsen (although young), even Marinovic is playing regularly - even if he is conceding a few at the moment.
Can't see Hay calling up both Paulsen and Sail for the March window though, would leave the Nix with only Henry Gray - means probably one spot behind Sail & Marinovic to be decided between Searle/Tzanev/Woud. 

Rightly or wrongly, as an established member of the squad and long time age group rep I think he has the inside running on the other 2, especially since he's been given minutes over them regularly by Hay.

Could be min 4 keepers (even 5) picked as they juggle who is available with 2 games outside March FIFA window.
Life and death
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almost 17 years
You’re interpreted my comment back to front. It wasm’t saying he isn’t good enough for the A League etc, I said others at that level would be as good.
mrsmiis
Napier Phoenix
you've got to be kidding. based on the 2 very recent poor displays by Woud, almost any keeper of A League or NZ National League standard would be as good
reg22
Searle and Gould are probably a long way off Woud's ability. 
Would have been good to see Tzanev play in these games.

Must be some other reason he's forged a nice career in Europe and Asia with 50 pro appearances at 22 then

I don't have faith in him either for the starting spot as he's shown no improvement in his concentration and ironing out his mistakes (probably even regressed in these respects), combined with blatantly diminished confidence. Not sure he makes my full-strength squad either. However he's still an incredibly talented, albeit raw, shot-stopper with high potential. To call him NL standard based off two games is strange
 

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