Phoenix Academy
800
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420
·
over 2 years
He has not lost the dressing room. Too  many young players fully under his influence and too many old players that would not mutiny e.g Hooper and Ball.
Somebody made up this rumour. Now it has to go twice around the World before we see the truth.
Marquee
6.9K
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9.3K
·
over 13 years
Doloras
coochiee
Doloras
Ufuk's gone. He's done everything he can with this club and he'll get a hundred better offers.

Dolaras bet you $100 he stays. Loser pays to a charity of winner's choice.
I don't gamble because that ruined my father's life. But evidence points to:

  • Our decent players will be leaving, as always, (some have already gone as soon as they could) and I doubt he'll be keen to spend a last season rebuilding from scratch, yet again
  • Rumour has it that he "lost the dressing room" near the end of the season. That's what led to Ernie Merrick quitting early
  • People talk about coming home as a positive, and it might be for the team, but Ufuk's an Australian and they don't tend to want to spend more time in this country than they have to.
The Victory are the most likely candidate based on what I've heard

1. It's not "as always" and it's not necessarily our best players who are going. We've kept some very good players for years. Uffie has already said the reason why Sotirio and McGarry are going is simply because they recieved a better offer than we thought they were worth (in a salary capped league) from other teams.
2. The rumor posted by a single person on here, was that Ben Waine had issues with him, a couple of days later there was a game and Ben Waine gave Uffie a big hug afterwards and they seemed pretty friendly. The players have recently been singing the praises about his compassion and his ability to mentor as well as coach.  And, if you look at the body language during the games, everyone is friendly towards Uffie. Sandoval, for instance, apologised to Uffie when taken off last game, and looked distraught that the performance hadn't been what was expected. If he'd lost the dressing room they'd be angry and they wouldn't have bought into the game plan.
3. I know plenty of Australians who live here and love it here, we've also had plenty of long term Phoenix players who were  Australian. To generalise an entire country and nationality is completely ridiculous. 


Victory is the most likely candidate based on what you, or someone else, made up. Victory has a coach and came second in the regular season. Why, on earth, would they want to get rid of him? Insane rumor.

Counter point evidence:
1. Uffie said just a week or two ago that he wants to stay in a position long term and build a coaching career. His ultimate goal is to coach overseas.
2. Uffie is talking about next season and is happy with the players that the club has signed, he's talked about that consistency being key. He said he's not so keen on returning to international travel, but everything else is positive.
3. Uffie is contracted for next season, and when linked with the Victory job previously he said he wants to honor that contract.

and 4 others
Legend
8K
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14K
·
over 16 years
We do this dance at this time every season and we have had coaches drop us at the last minute despite saying they wont. I was strongly in the Rudan will stay camp and he left even though he said he wouldn't. Personally I think Talay is more likely to stay and honour the contract and commitment he has made. McGarry may go along with Sotirio, neither is irreplaceable.
Doloras and a few others in this group seem to love the doom and gloom of an end of season wipeout, this season I think they are totally off the mark. As Ryan has said it would seem really odd for Talay to go to Victory, even if he wanted to go, they have a manager that took them to 2nd and possible finals champs.
and 4 others
First Team Squad
3.4K
·
1.3K
·
over 6 years
Doloras
coochiee
Doloras
Ufuk's gone. He's done everything he can with this club and he'll get a hundred better offers.

Dolaras bet you $100 he stays. Loser pays to a charity of winner's choice.
I don't gamble because that ruined my father's life. But evidence points to:

  • Our decent players will be leaving, as always, (some have already gone as soon as they could) and I doubt he'll be keen to spend a last season rebuilding from scratch, yet again
  • Rumour has it that he "lost the dressing room" near the end of the season. That's what led to Ernie Merrick quitting early
  • People talk about coming home as a positive, and it might be for the team, but Ufuk's an Australian and they don't tend to want to spend more time in this country than they have to.
The Victory are the most likely candidate based on what I've heard
>They don’t tend to want to spend more time in this country than they have to.

>A wild Andrew Durante appeared
Phoenix Academy
980
·
430
·
over 16 years
Friar Tuck
Doloras
coochiee
Doloras
Ufuk's gone. He's done everything he can with this club and he'll get a hundred better offers.

Dolaras bet you $100 he stays. Loser pays to a charity of winner's choice.
I don't gamble because that ruined my father's life. But evidence points to:

  • Our decent players will be leaving, as always, (some have already gone as soon as they could) and I doubt he'll be keen to spend a last season rebuilding from scratch, yet again
  • Rumour has it that he "lost the dressing room" near the end of the season. That's what led to Ernie Merrick quitting early
  • People talk about coming home as a positive, and it might be for the team, but Ufuk's an Australian and they don't tend to want to spend more time in this country than they have to.
The Victory are the most likely candidate based on what I've heard
>They don’t tend to want to spend more time in this country than they have to.

>A wild Andrew Durante appeared
 With his mates Vinny Lia, Manny Muscat, 
Marquee
3.7K
·
5.8K
·
almost 17 years
Ninja
Wouldn't mind Danny Hay as Nix coach to be fair. Talay's been good at times but I think it's time for fresh start, time to rebuild.
A no thankyou from me. Would he really want to coach in the A league and not sure the Nix will let him do it from Auckland
Marquee
3.7K
·
5.8K
·
almost 17 years
Doloras
Ufuk's gone. He's done everything he can with this club and he'll get a hundred better offers.
Do you ever post anything positive. Your having a laugh done every thing he can do you even read what you post.
tradition and history
1.5K
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9.9K
·
almost 17 years
ballane
Doloras
Ufuk's gone. He's done everything he can with this club and he'll get a hundred better offers.
Do you ever post anything positive. Your having a laugh done every thing he can do you even read what you post.
There will always be rumours regarding players/coaches.
I personally rate Ufuk and to me he is the best coach we have ever had. Understands the game and knows how to improve players.
and 1 other
Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years
Doloras
coochiee
Doloras
Ufuk's gone. He's done everything he can with this club and he'll get a hundred better offers.

Dolaras bet you $100 he stays. Loser pays to a charity of winner's choice.
I don't gamble because that ruined my father's life. But evidence points to:

  • Our decent players will be leaving, as always, (some have already gone as soon as they could) and I doubt he'll be keen to spend a last season rebuilding from scratch, yet again
  • Rumour has it that he "lost the dressing room" near the end of the season. That's what led to Ernie Merrick quitting early
  • People talk about coming home as a positive, and it might be for the team, but Ufuk's an Australian and they don't tend to want to spend more time in this country than they have to.
The Victory are the most likely candidate based on what I've heard

Have you even bothered to read this article? Doesn't sound like a coach going anyway.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/128649631/wellington-phoenix-eye-return-to-normality-after-two-seasons-away-from-new-zealand

The Nix have 15 players signed up, and quite a number of them are very 'decent'/starting 11 quality. Payne, Wootton, Laws, Sutton, Rufer, Lewis, Old, Waine & Ball. That's assuming Sail is leaving, but he may stay.

There was also an interview Talay did with Simon Hill (or someone else there's been a few Uffie radio interviews lately) where he talked about coaching being a slow process, and his desire to stay in one place long term, there is no hurry. Bother to listen to that?

No just take as gospel some half arse crap rumours about losing the dressing room, and Poppa to be the new Socceroos coach so Uffie must be off to the VUK.

Like going to a BBQ and someone tells you, they got told by a jockey, who rode a horse, that neighed at him that Ivermectin is a magic cure for Covid, so you go out and buy some.


Opinion Privileges revoked
4.5K
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9.7K
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over 14 years
No, I hadn't seen that article before now, thanks. Confirms what I said above, in part - not only Sotirio and McGarry, but Hooper, Sail and Piscopo on their way out. Ufuk is putting a brave face on his clear massive disappointment in the squad for letting him down; I'd have to say based on reading that that he might stick around if recruitment is good, but that is a HUGE if given our club's circumstances.
Starting XI
2.5K
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2.4K
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over 8 years
Doloras
No, I hadn't seen that article before now, thanks. Confirms what I said above, in part - not only Sotirio and McGarry, but Hooper, Sail and Piscopo on their way out. Ufuk is putting a brave face on his clear massive disappointment in the squad for letting him down; I'd have to say based on reading that that he might stick around if recruitment is good, but that is a HUGE if given our club's circumstances.

Ok Royz
and 3 others
Starting XI
1.5K
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2.6K
·
over 16 years
Doloras
No, I hadn't seen that article before now, thanks. Confirms what I said above, in part - not only Sotirio and McGarry, but Hooper, Sail and Piscopo on their way out. Ufuk is putting a brave face on his clear massive disappointment in the squad for letting him down; I'd have to say based on reading that that he might stick around if recruitment is good, but that is a HUGE if given our club's circumstances.

Well I guess that is one way of looking at it.  But there are other perspectives.

Hooper is toast.  Lovely skillful, strong player, been great to watch.  But he's clearly done his time.

Piscopo is a classy little player, a good watch, when he is not giving the ball away and making low probability decisions.  But he's injury prone,  lacks physical presence, not much of a high defender and flatters to deceive to a significant extent.  The production from him is OK, but four goals, for his supposed pedigree and the amount of playing time he has got, isn't a replacement problem. His midfield play as an outlet and a ball carrier we might miss more, but with a starting midfield back,  and with Hooper and Piscopo both replaced, I doubt we'll even miss that as much as you'd think.  Sure, we need to replace.  But I'm confident we can do as well or better, not necessarily one for one, but with overall recruitment.  I've enjoyed him being at the club, but I'm not particularly concerned about him heading elsewhere.  Bring on the new.

Sail?  Well the immediate response is obviously Paulsen.  And a world of other keepers.  Enough said really.  Sure he'd be a loss, but IF he goes it's another great achievement for the club to have developed a young NZ keeper, hopefully to a better league.  But, we'll find another one and Paulsen is good enough, arguably better than that and a downright exciting prospect.  IF Sail goes.

With Hooper we will definitely sign better than keeping him.  With Piscopo, I think we'll go close to matching him, or better, maybe with different strengths.  And with Sail, we already have a decent replacement.  I think there is more likelihood of recruitment upside versus downside with these expected departures, overall.

All just imo.  But I think we're set up going into a new season better than I can recall, except around some of those early Herbert years with Muscat, Siggy, Bertos, Daniel, Tim Brown et al, when we had a fair bit of stability.  And even then we never reached great heights.  More upside now I think.  Fantastic academy player development.  Much more stable A League membership.  Much more robust owners. Better relationship with NZ football.  Great coach.  Has to be the best environment to recruit into that we've had.

Onwards and upwards. 
and 12 others
Starting XI
1.8K
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4.1K
·
about 17 years
I'm still coming to terms that we have most coaching staff and players under contract and it is only May.

I hope Sail leaves. He's too good for the league. 

We tend to get the right importsin. I'm looking forward to seeing who the club bring in for next season.
WeeNix
170
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690
·
over 16 years
Too much reasoned analysis, not enough blind pessimism for me. I'm out.
and 1 other
Legend
6.8K
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14K
·
over 16 years
Fink
Too much reasoned analysis, not enough blind pessimism for me. I'm out.

How about Uffie’s teams having had the services of Uli, Taylor, Reno and Hemed and never having made any impression in the finals? And we won’t have any of them next year. Heck, we won’t even have Sotirio with his fitness and speed! 

That’s 85 Wellington Phoenix goal contributions that have walked or are walking out the door right there!

So can we count on you, Fink?
Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years
martinb
Fink
Too much reasoned analysis, not enough blind pessimism for me. I'm out.

How about Uffie’s teams having had the services of Uli, Taylor, Reno and Hemed and never having made any impression in the finals? And we won’t have any of them next year. Heck, we won’t even have Sotirio with his fitness and speed! 

That’s 85 Wellington Phoenix goal contributions that have walked or are walking out the door right there!

So can we count on you, Fink?

How many of those 5 players had you heard of before they came to the Nix? Honestly.
 
I only knew of Sotiro. I'm sure plenty of others had heard of Taylor & Hemed from their time in the EPL. Though for the Israeli it wasn't long in the Prem League.

But Davila & Piscopo, only the real football tragics would have known of either. As I think Carlind pointed out, most of the visa players the Nix sign would be unknown to nearly all Nix fans. So just trust Uffie & Gill once they have had a little earned holiday, to put their recruitment hats on and get to work. It's 3 visa players they will likely sign, and they have about 4-5 months to do it. No hurry at all.

Trust them to do it well, in a world that is far more open in 2022 than it was in either 2020 or 2021. Plus the Nix actually being based in Welly, with a far greater sense of stability will be a more attractive club to sign for, especially for family guys. Keep calm, relax.
RR
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Bossi Insider
9.2K
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33K
·
over 15 years
And as expected, Corica has re-signed with Sydney. So the only available A-League job atm is the Glory. Yes, a Popa for the Socceroos movement might open up the Victory gig but you can't guarantee that.
Phoenix Academy
800
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420
·
over 2 years
I knew of Piscopo when he was 15 and playing in the Inter Academy. Looking at him then, I would have expected him to be world class by now. Still a very good player. Gone through far too many injuries. 
Legend
6.8K
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14K
·
over 16 years
Just trying to keep Fink involved!
My reasoning was somewhat spurious, but definitely pessimistic!
To clarify: he complained there wasn’t enough pessimism for him and  that there was too much reasonable analysis…

Also that when they signed Wootton he’d been on Gilly’s radar for several years. It might even just require them to check their inbox…
Starting XI
2K
·
4.7K
·
almost 17 years
Personally, I think we've wasted a spot on Wootton, I'm sure we could find a better journeyman CB and lets not forget he played in most if not all of the spankings we recived in 2022.  Am also sad at the loss of Fenton but onwards and upwards.  

Can't wait to come home in December and see the Nix in Wellington for the first time since early '18.  My heart tells me we have a stellar season ahead built on the AWs playing at the WC!
Starting XI
2.5K
·
2.4K
·
over 8 years
Marto
Personally, I think we've wasted a spot on Wootton, I'm sure we could find a better journeyman CB and lets not forget he played in most if not all of the spankings we recived in 2022.  Am also sad at the loss of Fenton but onwards and upwards.  

Can't wait to come home in December and see the Nix in Wellington for the first time since early '18.  My heart tells me we have a stellar season ahead built on the AWs playing at the WC!
You've been banging that pot since before he arrived and despite that, he was fantastic. Not perfect, but very rarely put a foot wrong and we wouldn't have been near the top 6 without him. Its impossible to say what another CB would have done but there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to be unhappy about his performances.

Oli Sail played in all the spankings as well, but you aren't saying he's trash.
and 6 others
Legend
8K
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14K
·
over 16 years
Marto
Personally, I think we've wasted a spot on Wootton, I'm sure we could find a better journeyman CB and lets not forget he played in most if not all of the spankings we recived in 2022.  Am also sad at the loss of Fenton but onwards and upwards.  

Can't wait to come home in December and see the Nix in Wellington for the first time since early '18.  My heart tells me we have a stellar season ahead built on the AWs playing at the WC!

just admit it man you've been proven wrong on Wootten. sure he's not Taylor, but he's been a good CB option, and has worked really well with Surman.
and 2 others
Starting XI
2K
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4.7K
·
almost 17 years
Time will tell (next season)....  I have been very pleased with his goal input though.  Some very well taken goals.
WeeNix
730
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580
·
over 4 years
According to RBTV from their "inside" sources,
Sydney FC have given Corica 6 rounds to get the team going and delivering good results. If he fails to do so, assistant coach Rob Stanton to take on interim role for remainder of season. 
Sydney to then bring Ufuk back to the club.

Just to note, don't know how valid their "inside" source is. 
Phoenix Academy
1.2K
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330
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over 1 year
Sydney can stick it where the sun don't shine. I highly doubt that we will lose Ufuk to another A-League club. You can hear in every press release that the Nix owners love Ufuk, I highly doubt they will let some other A-League side pay more for him. I do believe he will head overseas at some point though, he is that good.
Marquee
3.7K
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5.8K
·
almost 17 years
I wouldnt be so sure he has always said he would finish his contract with us. Doubt we could offer the same money that Sydney could pay. He may also want a couple of seasons at home before heading away again. Would love him to stay but if he does dont think it will be about the money.
Marquee
6.9K
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9.3K
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over 13 years
He's said he wants to stay at a club and build a career before going overseas. I think he stays if he thinks he can win it with us, it won't be about his pay, it will be about the teams budget.
and 4 others
Phoenix Academy
1.2K
·
330
·
over 1 year
ballane
I wouldnt be so sure he has always said he would finish his contract with us. Doubt we could offer the same money that Sydney could pay. He may also want a couple of seasons at home before heading away again. Would love him to stay but if he does dont think it will be about the money.
I think both club owners have plenty of cash to offer him being incredibly rich. I really do think it would come down to who wants him more.
Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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almost 17 years
I really don't think money will factor into his decision. He's well off as it is. What he wants is to win silverware and to set himself up to be a serious coach. That means winning something with us this season. If not, then he'll assess his options. Sydney's transfer budget for next season will certainly beat ours so that, and the chance of spending some time closer to home (and trying to win something at the same time) may well mean he goes there. 

I really don't see him extending his time with us, sadly. I hope that he does, but I don't believe so. Reasons being that if he wins something, he'll make himself even more marketable around the world. If he doesn't, he can say that he tried, he saw out his contract despite huge budgetary and logistical challenges. 
Even if he doesn't win with us he will get job offers over in aussie as he's done so well for us. 
Hope to be proven wrong but I think this is his last season. 
Let's enjoy it! 
and 1 other
Phoenix Academy
620
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420
·
almost 9 years
newzealandpower
I really don't think money will factor into his decision. He's well off as it is. What he wants is to win silverware and to set himself up to be a serious coach. That means winning something with us this season. If not, then he'll assess his options. Sydney's transfer budget for next season will certainly beat ours so that, and the chance of spending some time closer to home (and trying to win something at the same time) may well mean he goes there. 

I really don't see him extending his time with us, sadly. I hope that he does, but I don't believe so. Reasons being that if he wins something, he'll make himself even more marketable around the world. If he doesn't, he can say that he tried, he saw out his contract despite huge budgetary and logistical challenges. 
Even if he doesn't win with us he will get job offers over in aussie as he's done so well for us. 
Hope to be proven wrong but I think this is his last season. 
Let's enjoy it! 
I think you've summed it up very well.
Phoenix Academy
1.2K
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330
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over 1 year
newzealandpower
I really don't think money will factor into his decision. He's well off as it is. What he wants is to win silverware and to set himself up to be a serious coach. That means winning something with us this season. If not, then he'll assess his options. Sydney's transfer budget for next season will certainly beat ours so that, and the chance of spending some time closer to home (and trying to win something at the same time) may well mean he goes there. 

I really don't see him extending his time with us, sadly. I hope that he does, but I don't believe so. Reasons being that if he wins something, he'll make himself even more marketable around the world. If he doesn't, he can say that he tried, he saw out his contract despite huge budgetary and logistical challenges. 
Even if he doesn't win with us he will get job offers over in aussie as he's done so well for us. 
Hope to be proven wrong but I think this is his last season. 
Let's enjoy it! 
Yeah you're probably right. Just passionate, wishful thinking from myself. We will seriously struggle to find another coach as good after he leaves. At least we maintain all our good connections we have within the club after his departure (like the agents getting us these good signings).
Marquee
3.7K
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5.8K
·
almost 17 years
Not sure i get why they cant find another coach who could do just as well. Nothing stopping them identifying another coach who could be just as successful. They have done it before.

Legend
8K
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14K
·
over 16 years
there's good coaches around the place, may not be "easy" to find but they are there and I'd trust our owners to find the next good one when Ufuk leaves at the end of his contract. I'd love him to extend and stay around longer but I get the feeling if he succeeds this season he may want to move on to bigger things.
First Team Squad
320
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1.4K
·
over 16 years
Where's Des Buckingham these days?
theprof
there's good coaches around the place, may not be "easy" to find but they are there and I'd trust our owners to find the next good one when Ufuk leaves at the end of his contract. I'd love him to extend and stay around longer but I get the feeling if he succeeds this season he may want to move on to bigger things.
First Team Squad
3.4K
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1.3K
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over 6 years
scribbler
Where's Des Buckingham these days?
theprof
there's good coaches around the place, may not be "easy" to find but they are there and I'd trust our owners to find the next good one when Ufuk leaves at the end of his contract. I'd love him to extend and stay around longer but I get the feeling if he succeeds this season he may want to move on to bigger things.
Over at Mumbai City, part of the City Football Group. He'd be the first guy I'm calling but I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the pipeline for the Melbourne job if Kisnorbo doesn't win anything this year.
Legend
11K
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21K
·
almost 9 years
newzealandpower
I really don't think money will factor into his decision. He's well off as it is. What he wants is to win silverware and to set himself up to be a serious coach. That means winning something with us this season. If not, then he'll assess his options. Sydney's transfer budget for next season will certainly beat ours so that, and the chance of spending some time closer to home (and trying to win something at the same time) may well mean he goes there. 

I really don't see him extending his time with us, sadly. I hope that he does, but I don't believe so. Reasons being that if he wins something, he'll make himself even more marketable around the world. If he doesn't, he can say that he tried, he saw out his contract despite huge budgetary and logistical challenges. 
Even if he doesn't win with us he will get job offers over in aussie as he's done so well for us. 
Hope to be proven wrong but I think this is his last season. 
Let's enjoy it! 

If he won the ALM, or even made the Grand Final with the Nix I could see him coming onto the radar of a J1 club. He had a season in Japan in 2008 as a player.

Ange Pot did great things in Nippon, and unfortunately Kevin Muscat is rebuilding his coaching reputation there with his team Yokohama F. Marinos, currently atop the J League. So Aussie coaches doing well in the Land of the Rising Sun.

From memory Ange Pot is a bit of a mentor for Talay. Some sage advice like yes, taking your time as a coach, staying at one club for a good stretch, building a track record, there is no rush etc etc etc

First Team Squad
3.4K
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1.3K
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over 6 years
I see Ramon has his UEFA Pro Licence and is the Assistant Manager at Honvéd in Hungary now. He's probably happy to be establishing himself in Europe but he'd be a great get if/when Uffie goes. I seem to remember a lot of people calling for his appointment after Kalezic but I think there was an issue with the type of licence he held at the time?
Legend
6.8K
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14K
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over 16 years
Not thinking past this season. We’ll see what happens after that! 
Not sure how well Australian man management crosses cultures, but then again, we’re a multicultural couple of countries. 
But yeh, the future is bright. I hope Talay looks further afield than Sydney if he leaves us. But that’s up to what matters to him, next season!

Let Domey and Gill plan for permutations.  
WeeNix
1.6K
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980
·
about 3 years
Friar Tuck
scribbler
Where's Des Buckingham these days?
theprof
there's good coaches around the place, may not be "easy" to find but they are there and I'd trust our owners to find the next good one when Ufuk leaves at the end of his contract. I'd love him to extend and stay around longer but I get the feeling if he succeeds this season he may want to move on to bigger things.
Over at Mumbai City, part of the City Football Group. He'd be the first guy I'm calling but I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the pipeline for the Melbourne job if Kisnorbo doesn't win anything this year.
I'd like to see him too, if Talay decides to leave, no guarantees he will. He's done a good job in Mumbai, I wouldn't be surprised if he extended there though. I don't really know how the CFG works, as to whether they'd take a contracted (if he does extend) head coach from one to another. He obviously knows the local scene well, and would be the closest thing to a 'New Zealand' coach possible. 

Only real downside would be that he might feel a bit aggrieved with working here, given the Phoenix passed on him after a couple solid interim periods, and how the Olympics went down. As opposed to CFG who gave him an assistant job in Melbourne and then head role in Mumbai, so might feel more loyalty to be reciprocated there. 

Otherwise, I guess you're looking at either recycled guys who've left other A League clubs, foreign coaches who haven't worked in the A League, or Australian guys from the NPL.
Legend
11K
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21K
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almost 9 years
Friar Tuck
I see Ramon has his UEFA Pro Licence and is the Assistant Manager at Honvéd in Hungary now. He's probably happy to be establishing himself in Europe but he'd be a great get if/when Uffie goes. I seem to remember a lot of people calling for his appointment after Kalezic but I think there was an issue with the type of licence he held at the time?

Yipe didn't hold the required licence back then. Though he actually made the short list for Brisbane Roar vacant head coaching gig around that time.

Danny Hay if he has required coaching licence I imagine will be a NZ candidate to replace Talay. Even if he stays the AWs gaffer, he won't be doing much until about 2024 in that role. I wasn't a fan of Ricki doing both jobs, and definitely contributed to AWs going into Mexico playoffs 2013 badly under prepared (just ask the players). Herbert planning for those 2 huge games in the midst of an ALM season.

But with a much easier WC qualification path ahead for the 2026 WC (just need to win OFC qualifying) you could agrue a good case that Hay should be able to manage both roles.

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