I meant as a player although I was only semi-serious
I think Nelsen was pretty much begged to sign for TFC as a player-manager by some supporters. Said he had glass knees and had enough as a player.
Jeremy Brockie (Edgeworth FC | Australia)
As part of the deal could we please have Nelsen on loan in the MLS off-season?
Brings out a decent idea - not nelsen, but there is now a relationship between the two clubs so we could see loans coming the other way maybe?
this f**king guys. NASL quality? Are you kidding.
need i remind of you of a few results namely newcastle jets 2-1 la galaxy in 2010
Ryan is clearly grooming Brockie as the next AW coach
this f**king guys. NASL quality? Are you kidding.
need i remind of you of a few results namely newcastle jets 2-1 la galaxy in 2010
Sporting Kansas City beat Manchester United in a FRIENDLY recent years. I don't think many people in MLS would argue that MLS is just as good as EPL because of that game.
this f**king guys. NASL quality? Are you kidding.
need i remind of you of a few results namely newcastle jets 2-1 la galaxy in 2010
Sporting Kansas City beat Manchester United in a FRIENDLY recent years. I don't think many people in MLS would argue that MLS is just as good as EPL because of that game.
this f**king guys. NASL quality? Are you kidding.
need i remind of you of a few results namely newcastle jets 2-1 la galaxy in 2010
Sporting Kansas City beat Manchester United in a FRIENDLY recent years. I don't think many people in MLS would argue that MLS is just as good as EPL because of that game.
it was two weeks after LA got knocked out of the conference finals. It wasn't in anyones pre-season. LA Galaxy were outplayed for 90 mins!
NASL quality it is not. The MLS 7-8 years ago it is not.
Sure the A-League isnt at MLS quality, but neither is Toronto FC
Sure the A-League isnt at MLS quality, but neither is Toronto FC
I dont think the A League is at MLS Level but its not NASL either. It's a ridiculous statement by someone who hasn't probably watched a game
Chill out tripvincent. Dude's just expressing an opinion. Why don't you logon to that forum and reply instead of cutting and pasting to here?
Sure the A-League isnt at MLS quality, but neither is Toronto FC
I dont think the A League is at MLS Level but its not NASL either. It's a ridiculous statement by someone who hasn't probably watched a game
I watch about 10 A league games per year. Insomnia sucks
Well we're pretty lucky broxs is even around - its 5 years past he said he'd be playing in England - the England premier league that is
Over reaction.. Much.. I love the NASL, COSMOS, AZTECS, WHITECAPS.. Check out the documentry on the Cosmos... Have a great Cosmos TShirt that gets worn a heck of a lot.. Love how the MLS Teams are getting to use the original names.. Timbers, Whitecaps, Sounders, Quakes..
Good on Brockie, keeps sharp, OE, helps the Nix wage bill..
this f**king guys. NASL quality? Are you kidding.
need i remind of you of a few results namely newcastle jets 2-1 la galaxy in 2010
Sporting Kansas City beat Manchester United in a FRIENDLY recent years. I don't think many people in MLS would argue that MLS is just as good as EPL because of that game.
I'm not here to pick a fight. But you asked the question.
Money talks. MLS has outstripped A League financially years ago. MLS is a financially stable league, with more teams in the pipeline. Recent expansion teams of Vancouver, Montreal and Portland paid US 50 mil each to join MLS. Rumour has it that expansion team in New York is going to cost US 100 mil, and that guy is said to be Sheikh Mansour, of Man City. Although not all MLS team owners will be as rich as that guy, but there are a lot of guys with money bankrolling MLS teams. And TV revenue is steadily going up, with national TV deal at US 27 mil that is known, plus regional TV deals. Example, LA Galaxy has a 10 yr, 44 mil TV contract. Not all teams will have lucrative TV deals like LA does, however, each team does have its own TV revenue. A League deal is 3 mil per year, IIRC.
MLS has soccer specific stadiums going up everywhere. Recently built Red Bull Arena in NY cost 250 mil. Sporting Park at 200 mil. Not only do SSS create better game day experience for the fans, but the fact that MLS teams can build SSS at such a cost demonstrates financial power. Heck, even some lower division teams have SSS (though on smaller scale) like San Antonio and Charleston, with Carolina and Pittsburgh planning their own SSS.
With good infrastructure, MLS teams average 15-19k in attendance. Even some lower division teams get decent attendance with San Antonio at 9k and Orlando City at 8k.
This means MLS can afford to spend a bit more on player wages. While this season's salary cap is 2.95 mil, in reality, each team spends about 4 mil, excluding designated player (marquee player) salary. (This is from MLS commissioner btw) MLS has this thing called allocation money which can be used to 'buy down' a salary, or used to pay transfer fees.
I'll agree that MLS domestic talent pool is comparable to A League domestic talent pool, though MLS and US is starting to spend a lot of money on youth academies and such. The difference is access to international talent pool. On top of the scale, you have LA paying 4 mil in transfer fee for Robbie Keane, who makes a yearly wage of about 4 mil. Obafemi Martins also cost couple of mil in transfer fee. A lot of designated players make about mil plus per year. (though there are players considered a DP due to their transfer fee, and don't make a lot of money) And more MLS teams are willing to pay big money for quality players, if the price is right.
Beckham is a bit of attention whore, but his signing opened up MLS to world's, especially European attention. With more understanding of MLS, more players became willing to give MLS a shot, especially combined with high profile signings like Thierry Henry, Rafa Marquez (who sucked so bad, that he had to be ditched btw), Nesta, etc. MLS has gone from a retirement league, to a league that attracts international talent still in their prime years. Average age of designated players is 29. I think if an ex EPL player signed for A League, he'd probably be a marquee player. When Vancouver signed Nigel Reo-Coker, 28, formerly of West Ham and Aston Villa on a non DP contract, he was just another international player. MLS can attract players like Alessandro Nesta, Arne Friedrich, Reo Coker, Mikael Silvestre on non DP wages. I don't think A league can. It also helps MLS that there is a perception that US offers a high quality of life. Oz/NZ also has high quality of life, but generally, people don't know that. (I've been to Oz and I loved my time there)
It's not just European players coming to MLS. With poor European economy, especially in Spain, Central and Latin American players are looking to MLS as intermediate step before going to Europe. Before, they would try to make straight jump to Europe, usually via a 2nd or 3rd tier European leagues. Now, players like Matias Laba, former Argentinian U20 player and only 21 is willing to come to MLS teams like Toronto, when only few years ago he'd be going to Spain.
MLS player list
This has the list of all the players in MLS, plus their salaries. I suspect you'll note a lot of familiar names on that list.
This has the list of all the players in MLS, plus their salaries. I suspect you'll note a lot of familiar names on that list.
So, MLS has access to international talent pool wider than A League. A League also has restrictive foreign player quota, which limits quality of the league. MLS also has international player limit, however, each team gets 8 spots out of 30 player roster, which is tradeable. Also, it is pretty easy to get US green card after like 2 years, which makes int players count as domestic players according to MLS rules. So while US domestic players may suck, the number of int players on a roster tend to balance that out.
Even US domestic players are getting looks. European teams (and Latin American teams) want to tap into lucrative US market, hence why even mid to low table EPL teams like Stoke City and Swansea want to schedule summer friendlies in US, along with powerhouses Man U, Chelsea, Barca, Real Madrid, etc. The trickle down effect of these teams playing friendlies against MLS teams is that MLS players get scouted. The Jan transfer window had 3 MLS players being signed by EPL teams. (Brek Shea and Geoff Cameron to Stoke, Kei Kamara on loan to Norwich, but he has returned to Kansas City recently) MLS players go on so called 'training sessions' with European teams all the time, which are trials in disguise. I think every MLS team had 2 or 3 players go on these 'training sessions' over the winter. One of them, Andy Najar who played for DC United got noticed and signed by Anderlecht. Najar is a 'homegrown player', basically a youth academy product and first one to make the transfer to Europe as a homegrown player. MLS youth academies are relatively recent, and only the fruits of these academies starting to make an impact in MLS. I expect more good players to come out of youth academies, instead of former traditional way of developing players via NCAA (US collegiate system). Simply due to numbers game, a lot of best US players do ply their trade in top Euro leagues, and many of them had their start in MLS.
Last time MLS went fishing in A League for talent, it didn't go so well. I understand that Danny Allsopp was a decent player, along with Fred for Melbourne Victory. Those guys were busts.
So this is why I think A League is about NASL level. A League just cannot compete with MLS's financial power, and without money, you cannot invest in infrastructure and training to develop better players.
Short version: MLS has helluva more money than A League which it uses to attract better international players than A League which makes MLS better league than A League.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
In terms of financial stability, it's important to note that the MLS is 10 years older than the A-League, and that extra time has allowed the MLS to grow to a place where the A-League should be aiming for. The A-League and it's clubs are still very young, but attendances and financial stability is growing across the league. Just like in the US, the Australian sporting market is extremely saturated, and the A-League is still working on expanding the number of people following it and attending games, which the MLS has a 10 year headstart on.
I agree wholeheartedly that the MLS is at a higher overall quality than the A-League for these reasons, but I'm not so sure about your comment that it is NASL level. I've never watched a NASL game so you are obviously in a better place to comment on a comparison between the two, but I don't think the difference in quality between the MLS and the A-League is as great as you think. Having watched nearly all of the Timber's MLS games last season, I think that they would have found it quite hard to beat some of the best teams in the A-League at the same point of time. Brisbane Roar at their peak or the current Mariners squad would give last years Timbers side a run for their money. I've never watched a TFC game, but from what I hear they were even worse than the Timbers.
In summary, I think this is a fantastic loan for Brockie, as he will be playing against higher quality opposition, but the quality won't be so far above him that he will feel out of his league.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
You'd note that a lot of players make 34k-46k. Most of them are young players out of youth academy or from NCAA. MLS teams tend to spend most of their cap space on about 15 players and the rest are basically young players or scrubs. I'd say avg MLS starter makes about 150-200k. Also note while MLS teams have 30 roster spots, only first 20 counts towards salary cap.
Though i find it ridiculous that a team can spend a third of its cap space on 3 players on designated player salary (368k per player)
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
The source I had from first google had 2012 salaries
given the mean as 143, 503 with DPs and 93, 503 without. The Median is 70k with dps and 67.5 k without.
What is your source out of interest?
Anyway, the point still stands. We don't know exactly what the average salaries are in a-league but you can work it out based on the salary cap and squad size. For the Phoenix you are looking at around 100k, Melbourne would be a bit higher.
In terms of financial stability, it's important to note that the MLS is 10 years older than the A-League, and that extra time has allowed the MLS to grow to a place where the A-League should be aiming for. The A-League and it's clubs are still very young, but attendances and financial stability is growing across the league. Just like in the US, the Australian sporting market is extremely saturated, and the A-League is still working on expanding the number of people following it and attending games, which the MLS has a 10 year headstart on.
I agree wholeheartedly that the MLS is at a higher overall quality than the A-League for these reasons, but I'm not so sure about your comment that it is NASL level. I've never watched a NASL game so you are obviously in a better place to comment on a comparison between the two, but I don't think the difference in quality between the MLS and the A-League is as great as you think. Having watched nearly all of the Timber's MLS games last season, I think that they would have found it quite hard to beat some of the best teams in the A-League at the same point of time. Brisbane Roar at their peak or the current Mariners squad would give last years Timbers side a run for their money. I've never watched a TFC game, but from what I hear they were even worse than the Timbers.
In summary, I think this is a fantastic loan for Brockie, as he will be playing against higher quality opposition, but the quality won't be so far above him that he will feel out of his league.
I agree that A League is where MLS was at about 7 years ago, before Toronto and Seattle and Portland came in the league. (So called MLS 2.0 era) It will be a battle to find money to develop infrastructure for A League though. US has it relatively easier with bigger population and more money available to spend on soccer.
I should say that NASL is 2nd tier and USL is 3rd tier, but US lower divisions are relatively competitive with MLS teams. It is not unheard of NASL or USL teams to have cupsets over MLS teams.
Timbers were quite crap last season, though they are one of better teams this season. TFC blows and really is NASL level right now.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
You'd note that a lot of players make 34k-46k. Most of them are young players out of youth academy or from NCAA. MLS teams tend to spend most of their cap space on about 15 players and the rest are basically young players or scrubs. I'd say avg MLS starter makes about 150-200k. Also note while MLS teams have 30 roster spots, only first 20 counts towards salary cap.
Though i find it ridiculous that a team can spend a third of its cap space on 3 players on designated player salary (368k per player)
That's a fair point, only 3 of our youth players would be included in the average salary. I still don't think the the salaries are vastly different though.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
You'd note that a lot of players make 34k-46k. Most of them are young players out of youth academy or from NCAA. MLS teams tend to spend most of their cap space on about 15 players and the rest are basically young players or scrubs. I'd say avg MLS starter makes about 150-200k. Also note while MLS teams have 30 roster spots, only first 20 counts towards salary cap.
Though i find it ridiculous that a team can spend a third of its cap space on 3 players on designated player salary (368k per player)
That's a fair point, only 3 of our youth players would be included in the average salary. I still don't think the the salaries are vastly different though.
I can't find the source right now, but on average, MLS teams spend 4 mil on wages. (3 mil salary cap plus 1 mil in allocation money which is used to buy down cap hit). First 20 players count towards cap hit. So I get about 200k per player for first 20 players on a team. Now this is not constant year to year per team.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
The source I had from first google had 2012 salaries
given the mean as 143, 503 with DPs and 93, 503 without. The Median is 70k with dps and 67.5 k without.
What is your source out of interest?
Anyway, the point still stands. We don't know exactly what the average salaries are in a-league but you can work it out based on the salary cap and squad size. For the Phoenix you are looking at around 100k, Melbourne would be a bit higher.
I did quick analysis on the actual data in Excel, here's a version of your link which relates to the 2013 season. http://www.sounderatheart.com/2013/5/6/4306550/mls-player-salaries-analysis-charts-and-tables
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
The source I had from first google had 2012 salaries
given the mean as 143, 503 with DPs and 93, 503 without. The Median is 70k with dps and 67.5 k without.
What is your source out of interest?
Anyway, the point still stands. We don't know exactly what the average salaries are in a-league but you can work it out based on the salary cap and squad size. For the Phoenix you are looking at around 100k, Melbourne would be a bit higher.
I did quick analysis on the actual data in Excel, here's a version of your link which relates to the 2013 season. http://www.sounderatheart.com/2013/5/6/4306550/mls-player-salaries-analysis-charts-and-tables
Hmmm, disclaimers such as "Not all players are in the document", and "The document is not completely up to date", and "includes some players not in MLS".
Personally I don't think you should jump in with a "WRONG" comment at the start of your reply when even from your source, the figures were not all that different, and were not reliable anyway.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
The source I had from first google had 2012 salaries
given the mean as 143, 503 with DPs and 93, 503 without. The Median is 70k with dps and 67.5 k without.
What is your source out of interest?
Anyway, the point still stands. We don't know exactly what the average salaries are in a-league but you can work it out based on the salary cap and squad size. For the Phoenix you are looking at around 100k, Melbourne would be a bit higher.
I did quick analysis on the actual data in Excel, here's a version of your link which relates to the 2013 season. http://www.sounderatheart.com/2013/5/6/4306550/mls-player-salaries-analysis-charts-and-tables
Hmmm, disclaimers such as "Not all players are in the document", and "The document is not completely up to date", and "includes some players not in MLS".
Personally I don't think you should jump in with a "WRONG" comment at the start of your reply when even from your source, the figures were not all that different, and were not reliable anyway.
I did the analysis myself from the data supplied from the MLSPU, and just posted that link as an example. Fair enough about me saying wrong though, I should have said "you have made comments that are not entirely correct". 140,000 isn't 'just a bit over 100k".
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
The source I had from first google had 2012 salaries
given the mean as 143, 503 with DPs and 93, 503 without. The Median is 70k with dps and 67.5 k without.
What is your source out of interest?
Anyway, the point still stands. We don't know exactly what the average salaries are in a-league but you can work it out based on the salary cap and squad size. For the Phoenix you are looking at around 100k, Melbourne would be a bit higher.
I did quick analysis on the actual data in Excel, here's a version of your link which relates to the 2013 season. http://www.sounderatheart.com/2013/5/6/4306550/mls-player-salaries-analysis-charts-and-tables
Hmmm, disclaimers such as "Not all players are in the document", and "The document is not completely up to date", and "includes some players not in MLS".
Personally I don't think you should jump in with a "WRONG" comment at the start of your reply when even from your source, the figures were not all that different, and were not reliable anyway.
I did the analysis myself from the data supplied from the MLSPU, and just posted that link as an example. Fair enough about me saying wrong though, I should have said "you have made comments that are not entirely correct". 140,000 isn't 'just a bit over 100k".
The data supplied by MLSPU has acknowledged inaccuracies doesn't it? But then what is the average? The mean? The median?
I'm more interested in the idea that Brockie never comes back....best of luck to him being spotted and recruited into a better league than the A league and/or the MLS. He strikes me as a better championship striker than most.......and yes the championship is a better league than the MLS or A league.....so don't bother.
Getting back to Brockie,
Hope he does well, garners a little bit of attention and gets picked up overseas and the Nix recieve a handly little transfer fee.
Wasn't it last year that a Chinese club offered 400k for him prior to his move to the Nix. Surely he's worth a little more than that now.
Yohan, why is the average player salary just a bit over 100k then? Take out the "designated" players and it is under that. The player salaries are not all that different, especially when you account for the current strength of the aussie dollar.
Wrong. The average wage is $141,903. The average non-DP wage is $102,661.
The source I had from first google had 2012 salaries
given the mean as 143, 503 with DPs and 93, 503 without. The Median is 70k with dps and 67.5 k without.
What is your source out of interest?
Anyway, the point still stands. We don't know exactly what the average salaries are in a-league but you can work it out based on the salary cap and squad size. For the Phoenix you are looking at around 100k, Melbourne would be a bit higher.
I did quick analysis on the actual data in Excel, here's a version of your link which relates to the 2013 season. http://www.sounderatheart.com/2013/5/6/4306550/mls-player-salaries-analysis-charts-and-tables
Hmmm, disclaimers such as "Not all players are in the document", and "The document is not completely up to date", and "includes some players not in MLS".
Personally I don't think you should jump in with a "WRONG" comment at the start of your reply when even from your source, the figures were not all that different, and were not reliable anyway.
I did the analysis myself from the data supplied from the MLSPU, and just posted that link as an example. Fair enough about me saying wrong though, I should have said "you have made comments that are not entirely correct". 140,000 isn't 'just a bit over 100k".
The data supplied by MLSPU has acknowledged inaccuracies doesn't it? But then what is the average? The mean? The median?
https://twitter.com/JeremiahOshan
MLS player salaries:
Total compensation down ($89M from $99M),
average down ($160k from $179k)
but median is up ($89k from $85k)
Total compensation down ($89M from $99M),
average down ($160k from $179k)
but median is up ($89k from $85k)
Getting back to Brockie,
Hope he does well, garners a little bit of attention and gets picked up overseas and the Nix recieve a handly little transfer fee.
Wasn't it last year that a Chinese club offered 400k for him prior to his move to the Nix. Surely he's worth a little more than that now.
Thoughts on whether Brockie can play winger? TFC is pretty set on striker position, but wing play has been horrid
Thoughts on whether Brockie can play winger? TFC is pretty set on striker position, but wing play has been horrid
Depends on who you ask. The majority of his international play has been as a midfield wing. His best two seasons in the a-league have been as a mixture of striker and wide forward. I think he is best as a striker.
Chill out tripvincent. Dude's just expressing an opinion. Why don't you logon to that forum and reply instead of cutting and pasting to here?
Don't see anything wrong with posting what he wrote. We are all free to do and say what we please old boy!
Salaries, stadiums, crowds, none of it matters. The A League is not NASL quality it is far far better than that
...so moving on from that rubbish
How will this affect his All Stars game chances??
Thoughts on whether Brockie can play winger? TFC is pretty set on striker position, but wing play has been horrid
More of a wide striker, he won't be the one creating your chances. One of the biggest complaints this season, has been his lack of movement off the ball. You might hear a few complaints that "he does nothing but score goals". Also he really doesn't do tap ins, he normally seems to score stunners.
Sure there might be a down side through the chances of injury, but surely training in a more professional environment with better players (Earnshaw) will help his game.
...so moving on from that rubbish
How will this affect his All Stars game chances??
I presume that's all done and dusted. He's out sadly and ADP may be missing as well. I guess we all have to sadly rely on Daniel McBreen which of course isn't a bad thing against the slow Ferdinand.
Thoughts on whether Brockie can play winger? TFC is pretty set on striker position, but wing play has been horrid
Depends on who you ask. The majority of his international play has been as a midfield wing. His best two seasons in the a-league have been as a mixture of striker and wide forward. I think he is best as a striker.
edit: Oh yeah and I reckon he's an underrated crosser of the ball too
edit: Oh yeah and I reckon he's an underrated crosser of the ball too
Just ask Covic.
edit: Oh yeah and I reckon he's an underrated crosser of the ball too
Just ask Covic.
edit: Oh yeah and I reckon he's an underrated crosser of the ball too
Just ask Covic.
And an uncanny ability to look surprised and a little embarrassed at the same time!