Well clearly at 8 you're just being silly. We dont have the population base for 8, even 6 would be a stretch. 4 feels like a bit of a stretch and I could imagine Dunners or Hamilton being able to get a team off the ground.
3 will be a stretch. 4 no chance. Dunners or the Tron just not big enough, in a country where rugby still grabs so much of the commercial sponsorship dollars. My impression of Dunedin is that in summer it basically is very sleepy without the scarfies in town. And then yes you would also definitely see a drop in NZ player quality, if you had 3-4 teams.
Canberra & Auckland come in and the A League is 14 teams.
Then the plan seems to be that once teams in the new proposed NSD show are financially stable you can start to look at pro/rel. Gradually maybe promoting 6 teams (without relegation), and then creating an A1 & A2 type split of 10 teams each. That at a stretch could include a ChCh team.
But this is all very optimistic stuff until is some clear financial stability. That may never happen, and a NSD may never even get off the ground.
Apologies for the sarcasm, I'd like to see a second team established and the first get a bit closer to breaking even before we thought too much about more teams. Long term I think Christchurch is the only other market that could plausibly support a side.
No, I think we should explore your idea - I'm sure reviving the NZFC, only professional, would be a real banger. Looking to go to the first YoungHeart Manawatu revival.
Auckland will be successful this time because the entry fee is so high it has no option otherwise. Previous Auckland teams were not resourced properly, to afford the entry fee a new owner will be able to afford to match the resourcing of the other teams and to justify the investment it will be.
Owners of the newest A-Leagues expansion teams should be announced within weeks, anticipates APL CEO Danny Townsend, with a bumper patch of player sales also spurring the league to eye further investment in its transfer infrastructure.https://t.co/g4eNOE4Weg
That's a little bit exciting!! I hope hope hope that Auckland has a) been given the chance to take a place in the 2024 season and b) has a decent owner with money and plans.
With the topic of atmosphere and experience I think the issue with past (and somewhat present) NZ clubs has been the lack of away fans, because like some people said on here already fans don’t actually care too much, so there’s no atmosphere. But away fans, especially vocal ones make home fans feel like they have a responsibility match that and be louder in their support, but if it’s just a couple home fans yelling with no away fans the feeling is more “what are you doing” because there’s no responsibility. something I want to try is pretending to support the opposition, who ever it is. Also agree on oversized stadiums
We have a National League. A lot of players in there are semi pros anyway, not too much of a step up for them.
I thought the issue was that many NL players are just not interested in playing pro, they'd prefer to play for Trillian Trust bucks as their "side hustle" and keep their day jobs
We have a National League. A lot of players in there are semi pros anyway, not too much of a step up for them.
I thought the issue was that many NL players are just not interested in playing pro, they'd prefer to play for Trillian Trust bucks as their "side hustle" and keep their day jobs
Exactly, they can have a good full time job paying $80k to $120k or whatever and then be earning their rent/mortgage repayment each weekend. The wages on offer can equal less than that
With the topic of atmosphere and experience I think the issue with past (and somewhat present) NZ clubs has been the lack of away fans, because like some people said on here already fans don’t actually care too much, so there’s no atmosphere. But away fans, especially vocal ones make home fans feel like they have a responsibility match that and be louder in their support, but if it’s just a couple home fans yelling with no away fans the feeling is more “what are you doing” because there’s no responsibility. something I want to try is pretending to support the opposition, who ever it is. Also agree on oversized stadiums
NZ A League derbies (ALM & ALW) could be a real game changer for the code, and even NZ sport as whole. You get some travelling fans with NZ Super Rugby games, but never a big bloc all in one place in the away ground.
So a few hundred Auckland FC supporters standing in a specific isle at the ROF, and then the travelling Yellow Fever at Eden Park - would be a unique experience in NZ. Plus all the pre match banter in the pubs and walking as a large group to the ground. Would fefinitely help atract the casuals, as currently there is nothing similar happening in Godzone. You can see how the travelling fans - Dutch, USA etc - themselves became an attraction with the WWC.
It's why it's so important that any Auckland club quickly get their own fan club up and running - maybe with a bigger drum.
You'd also want both ROF & Eden Park/Mt Smart to get organised with a specific isle for travelling fans to stand in, and letting other fans know is a standing only area. You want to create the best loud match day atmosphere you can.
Appointing Danny Hay as Auckland's coach (he's a good shout I reckon) would also be a useful marketing masterstroke. Immediate pantomine villain. He's never really been a friend of Wellington.
What is Hay currently doing? Personally I think the new club needs a higher profile coach with a greater pedegree than him to start their campaign. Danny Hay as coach is not going to excite many people tbh.coochiee
Mby bb
With the topic of atmosphere and experience I think the issue with past (and somewhat present) NZ clubs has been the lack of away fans, because like some people said on here already fans don’t actually care too much, so there’s no atmosphere. But away fans, especially vocal ones make home fans feel like they have a responsibility match that and be louder in their support, but if it’s just a couple home fans yelling with no away fans the feeling is more “what are you doing” because there’s no responsibility. something I want to try is pretending to support the opposition, who ever it is. Also agree on oversized stadiums
NZ A League derbies (ALM & ALW) could be a real game changer for the code, and even NZ sport as whole. You get some travelling fans with NZ Super Rugby games, but never a big bloc all in one place in the away ground.
So a few hundred Auckland FC supporters standing in a specific isle at the ROF, and then the travelling Yellow Fever at Eden Park - would be a unique experience in NZ. Plus all the pre match banter in the pubs and walking as a large group to the ground. Would fefinitely help atract the casuals, as currently there is nothing similar happening in Godzone. You can see how the travelling fans - Dutch, USA etc - themselves became an attraction with the WWC.
It's why it's so important that any Auckland club quickly get their own fan club up and running - maybe with a bigger drum.
You'd also want both ROF & Eden Park/Mt Smart to get organised with a specific isle for travelling fans to stand in, and letting other fans know is a standing only area. You want to create the best loud match day atmosphere you can.
Appointing Danny Hay as Auckland's coach (he's a good shout I reckon) would also be a useful marketing masterstroke. Immediate pantomine villain. He's never really been a friend of Wellington.
I don't think we can expect much higher profile than Hay unless you went to Nelsen to see if he wanted another crack at coaching?
Hay would at least generate some interest... but does he have the right badges?
What about Des? Is coaching in the A League more appealing that India or is it not enough of a step up?
Hay might be interested in an A-league gig? Not sure if Des would want to given his connections with the city group, if he was going to an a-league club it would be Melbourne City. As much as I think he'd be decent with an a-league team I have a feeling he is doing his time before being given an opportunity in England with an age group Manchester team before getting a shot at EPL.
With a Perth WA NPL club, not their NPL club. Anyway Perth Soccer Club ain't going to hold Hay back if Auckland or any ALM club came calling.
Hay can be a polarising figure. The new Auckland owners may want someone seen as more collaborative, to bring together the various parts of the Auckland football community. Could be someone from overseas, but now seems foreign coaches without some prior knowledge of the ALM are a greater risk of failure.
And yeah does Hay have the required badges, or will the APL going foward even insist on that requirement? They don't for the Aussie coaches?
I doubt Buckingham would be interested. Almost a backwards move for him now.
Hay doesn't have the badges to coach an Aussie A-League side as a foreign manager. Does the team being based in NZ allow him to get away with lower conditionals like Aussie coaches do? I dunno
Hay doesn't have the badges to coach an Aussie A-League side as a foreign manager. Does the team being based in NZ allow him to get away with lower conditionals like Aussie coaches do? I dunno
Ramon T would be the obvious choice.
I know this was an issue for Greenacre - assume he wasn't a NZ citizen at the time.
Hay doesn't have the badges to coach an Aussie A-League side as a foreign manager. Does the team being based in NZ allow him to get away with lower conditionals like Aussie coaches do? I dunno
Ramon T would be the obvious choice.
I know this was an issue for Greenacre - assume he wasn't a NZ citizen at the time.
I think it's an issue for any non-Australian coaching in the ALM. Well at least it was when the FA were running the League. Hopefully the APL make the badge requirements equal for both Aussies & Kiwis to coach in the League.
Certainly Townsend seems far more pro Kiwi than Gallop & Co ever were. Not that, that would be hard.
Hay doesn't have the badges to coach an Aussie A-League side as a foreign manager. Does the team being based in NZ allow him to get away with lower conditionals like Aussie coaches do? I dunno
Ramon T would be the obvious choice.
Ramo T would be a good candidate. But any Auckland franchise owners maybe looking to distance themselves from ACFC somewhat, in a bid to embrace the whole Auckland football community. Though to be fair Ramon left Auckland City years ago.
lol, that would be hilarious! but would also spark the rivalry up! Didnt want to stay at Nix cos was looking at bigger and better ops, none of those turned up so I'll apply for the new NZ franchise role.
Talay will get the next A league gig that comes available. Likely to be well before Auckland get up and going. Eg. CCM's Montgomery currently linked with a job in Scotland.
Talay will get the next A league gig that comes available. Likely to be well before Auckland get up and going. Eg. CCM's Montgomery currently linked with a job in Scotland.
Talay has been linked to the impending Canberra gig previously.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
lol, that would be hilarious! but would also spark the rivalry up! Didnt want to stay at Nix cos was looking at bigger and better ops, none of those turned up so I'll apply for the new NZ franchise role.
It's not that he didn't want to stay at the Nix, it's that the Nix gave him an ultimatum and didn't want to wait for him. If the Nix job was on offer he'd probably take it.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
The coaches that got their professional break in the A-League then went overseas that you missed include: Arnie, Popovic, Buckingham, Kisnorbo, Herbert, Stajcic, Hutchinson. Probably more.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
The coaches that got their professional break in the A-League then went overseas that you missed include: Arnie, Popovic, Buckingham, Kisnorbo, Herbert, Stajcic, Hutchinson. Probably more.
Arnie had a miserable time and also canned a contract after saying the facilities were trash or something. Buckingham and Kisnorbo moved within the City group. Herbert went overseas, but not to a better job. Stajcic apart from the Philippines I don’t know, and the same with Hutchinson. Popovic didn’t last long in Greece and has returned poorly to the A league, desperately in need of some results to prove that he’s still capable.
Muscat and Ange have won titles, though Muscat just lost a Yokohama derby.
Let’s be fair, it seems much more difficult for coaches to move up the ladder from the A league than players.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
The coaches that got their professional break in the A-League then went overseas that you missed include: Arnie, Popovic, Buckingham, Kisnorbo, Herbert, Stajcic, Hutchinson. Probably more.
Arnie had a miserable time and also canned a contract after saying the facilities were trash or something. Buckingham and Kisnorbo moved within the City group. Herbert went overseas, but not to a better job. Stajcic apart from the Philippines I don’t know, and the same with Hutchinson. Popovic didn’t last long in Greece and has returned poorly to the A league, desperately in need of some results to prove that he’s still capable.
Muscat and Ange have won titles, though Muscat just lost a Yokohama derby.
Let’s be fair, it seems much more difficult for coaches to move up the ladder from the A league than players.
I just added a few more names, I didn't need justification about why I shouldn't have added them.
Ange and Muscat were both hired by city group too.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
The coaches that got their professional break in the A-League then went overseas that you missed include: Arnie, Popovic, Buckingham, Kisnorbo, Herbert, Stajcic, Hutchinson. Probably more.
Arnie had a miserable time and also canned a contract after saying the facilities were trash or something. Buckingham and Kisnorbo moved within the City group. Herbert went overseas, but not to a better job. Stajcic apart from the Philippines I don’t know, and the same with Hutchinson. Popovic didn’t last long in Greece and has returned poorly to the A league, desperately in need of some results to prove that he’s still capable.
Muscat and Ange have won titles, though Muscat just lost a Yokohama derby.
Let’s be fair, it seems much more difficult for coaches to move up the ladder from the A league than players.
I just added a few more names, I didn't need justification about why I shouldn't have added them.
Ange and Muscat were both hired by city group too.
Ha! True. Well, except Celtic and Spurs…watching Des’ next move then. And Des didn’t exactly seem short of UK offers, so not sure if you could say 100% he came up through the A league solely.
I’m confused though- are you arguing the point (that it is a lot easier and more common for players to head overseas having come up through the A league than coaches ) or not?
It’s common for players to head overseas every transfer window. Coaches/Managers heading overseas is quite rare by comparison.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
The coaches that got their professional break in the A-League then went overseas that you missed include: Arnie, Popovic, Buckingham, Kisnorbo, Herbert, Stajcic, Hutchinson. Probably more.
Arnie had a miserable time and also canned a contract after saying the facilities were trash or something. Buckingham and Kisnorbo moved within the City group. Herbert went overseas, but not to a better job. Stajcic apart from the Philippines I don’t know, and the same with Hutchinson. Popovic didn’t last long in Greece and has returned poorly to the A league, desperately in need of some results to prove that he’s still capable.
Muscat and Ange have won titles, though Muscat just lost a Yokohama derby.
Let’s be fair, it seems much more difficult for coaches to move up the ladder from the A league than players.
I just added a few more names, I didn't need justification about why I shouldn't have added them.
Ange and Muscat were both hired by city group too.
Ha! True. Well, except Celtic and Spurs…watching Des’ next move then. And Des didn’t exactly seem short of UK offers, so not sure if you could say 100% he came up through the A league solely.
I’m confused though- are you arguing the point (that it is a lot easier and more common for players to head overseas having come up through the A league than coaches ) or not?
It’s common for players to head overseas every transfer window. Coaches/Managers heading overseas is quite rare by comparison.
24 players for every coach though - well less, allowing for 2-3 coaches per side, but still- it would be rarer.
I don’t think Uffie felt too good for the Nix, just having been through the pandemic and all that, he’d done his time here and it was time for someone else.
Also in his defense too it seems much harder for a coach to go overseas from the A league based on the numbers. Muscat and Ange are about it? One of the City group guys? That’s a tiny percentage compared to the players who get gigs overseas.
The coaches that got their professional break in the A-League then went overseas that you missed include: Arnie, Popovic, Buckingham, Kisnorbo, Herbert, Stajcic, Hutchinson. Probably more.
Arnie had a miserable time and also canned a contract after saying the facilities were trash or something. Buckingham and Kisnorbo moved within the City group. Herbert went overseas, but not to a better job. Stajcic apart from the Philippines I don’t know, and the same with Hutchinson. Popovic didn’t last long in Greece and has returned poorly to the A league, desperately in need of some results to prove that he’s still capable.
Muscat and Ange have won titles, though Muscat just lost a Yokohama derby.
Let’s be fair, it seems much more difficult for coaches to move up the ladder from the A league than players.
I just added a few more names, I didn't need justification about why I shouldn't have added them.
Ange and Muscat were both hired by city group too.
Ha! True. Well, except Celtic and Spurs…watching Des’ next move then. And Des didn’t exactly seem short of UK offers, so not sure if you could say 100% he came up through the A league solely.
I’m confused though- are you arguing the point (that it is a lot easier and more common for players to head overseas having come up through the A league than coaches ) or not?
It’s common for players to head overseas every transfer window. Coaches/Managers heading overseas is quite rare by comparison.
wasn't posting any argument, just added some names.
Although, with the success of Ange and to a lesser extent Muscat, you'd expect the door will be open. Ufuk hadn't done enough to make the move though, unless it was as and assistant to the likes of Ange or Muscat
On the subject of NZ derbies, I'd say we'll probably hear from a Christchurch bid in the next 10 years (and could even be boosted if Auckland go well).
Christchurch United has rich and committed foreign ownership (Slava Meyn), has built great facilities, a growing academy program starting to produce NZ international (which recently announced a full boarding school program), has built up a really strong first team and could go perfectly with the new stadium build.
Not personally sure whether the city has the interest to sustain an AL club long-term (or whether Aus would be willing to let in a 3rd NZ team), but I expect we'll hear from them in A-League expansion discussions next 10 years.
I can see it hasn't been posted here but in the below interview it has been stated that there are several bids for the Auckland franchise. It sounds like it's almost certain Auckland will have a franchise now.
I personally think any serious offer will be some overseas bid like the City group or something. I have no problem with that personally since more opportunities for young kiwis in football is always a good thing.
Don't have time to listen, but the idea of several bidders boggles my imagination. There was one serious contender - Ivan Vuksich's Auckland FC setup - and they didn't have the $25 million. My money is still on no Auckland bid.
I can see it hasn't been posted here but in the below interview it has been stated that there are several bids for the Auckland franchise. It sounds like it's almost certain Auckland will have a franchise now.
I personally think any serious offer will be some overseas bid like the City group or something. I have no problem with that personally since more opportunities for young kiwis in football is always a good thing.
Don't have time to listen, but the idea of several bidders boggles my imagination. There was one serious contender - Ivan Vuksich's Auckland FC setup - and they didn't have the $25 million. My money is still on no Auckland bid.
Ye of little faith Doloras.
Certainly the people coming in will have some negotiating power- imagine there might be deferred payments, payments in kind, payments taken out if finals gate revenues, payments dependent on the league hitting certain metrics and a whole lot of things that people smarter than me might dream up.
Considering the product can’t have increased in value, it’s guna be a hard ask to assert the price should go up, especially as most clubs run at a loss and several clubs have gone under in the past. But I’m sure the APL is guna try…
The talk about an Auckland team from a wide variety of non-A league- tragics makes me think that it’s a done deal.
The addition of the Auckland team and Camberra one is different to WSW, and should add value to the league.
Firstly, there aren't clubs already in those areas, so its a new fan base to build on. And second, derbies bring in the punters. Welly doesn't have one really, now they and Auckland will, and this will lead to far bigger crowds on those match days than normal.
