Post history

History for coochiee

2022 All Whites International Fixtures

Back to topic

Current version

Posted July 08, 2022 03:50 · last edited July 08, 2022 03:55

Friar Tuck
carlind
coochiee
Yeah true Fiji is the one OFC team in NZ that would draw a bit of a crowd outside a WC qualifier.

Esp at Mt Smart a bit closer to Papatoetoe and a largish Fijian Indian popn 

But personally watching the AWs play an OFC team bores me to tears most often. However I’d be curious to watch AW wannabe David Ball up against M Boxall & B Tuiloma. But that’s just me

With the exception of the most recent games in Qatar, OFC teams have been reasonably competitive against the AWs, and even the PNG and Tahiti games were tight in March. Those games were also an unfair representation of how good those teams can be, with most of the teams being out of season and unable to train due to Covid. Before those, only four out of 22 games in the last decade saw the AWs win by more than two.

The crowd factor is also a tough one, because no realistic friendly (bar this Australia game probably) is getting a big crowd. The biggest draws will be far too expensive/apathetic to bring to New Zealand, and if you go the level below, the crowds drop accordingly; the average punter isn't scrambling to go watch El Salvador. No European team is coming, between Nations' League, Euros' qualifiers and WC qualifiers they have no time; no South American team is with their schedules either. So you get left with the weak CONCACAF, CAF or AFC sides that can't progress far in qualifying; in other words, countries that are probably smaller draws than our local OFC friends anyway.
 
We brought out two World Cup teams in Honduras and Paraguay (who were quarterfinalists) on the back of South Africa and 'only' got 18k and 16.5k, and the only friendlies since were Jamaica in 2012 ("over 15k") and South Africa in 2014 which got only 9k. We got 10k to both the Fiji and Solomon Islands games in 2017, so its possible to get reasonable crowds, even discounting for the difference between friendlies and competitive matches.

The complaint about the AWs not reaching their potential because they don't play enough is even more applicable to the other OFC nations. They probably won't ever be world class, but more games will only improve them, and a better Tahiti/PNG/Solomons etc is better for NZ. The whole desire to move to AFC isn't because we want to win, its because we want to lose, because that makes winning better. I'd love more stuff like that 4 team 'tournament' Schmid had in India in 2018, and with a local squad there would be genuine competition with nowhere near the same costs as the Middle East games (let alone bringing two 23-man squads over from Europe), plus it could help guys like Talay scout guys. I might well be in the minority, but I'd prefer home games against OFC opposition with local squads over having the AWs play behind-closed-doors, untelevised games at 5am against Oman.

I also feel that players wouldn't be that enthusiastic to come all the way over from Europe to play a game against the Phoenix. It would be a very expensive exercise in avoiding injuries, and turn into a carnival game, and the European clubs would probably view it similarly. The biggest issue is, neither are going to happen unfortunately. Also, if a 35/36-year-old David Ball is waltzing into an AWs squad ASAP, then the 'golden generation' tag should never be used again.
Bally could maybe play the 2024 OFC Nations Cup if he gets his citizenship done in time, but I’d be hoping that the likes of Singh, Just, McCowatt, Old, Champness, Rogerson, Whyte, Mata, even Otto Ingham and Kingsley Sinclair would’ve kicked on to the next level at that point. Plus if Bally shifts deeper with age then he’s competing with the likes of Garbett, Stamenic, Bell, Lewis etc.

But with it not being a WC year, some of those higher level players might not come over, leaving a spot for Ball.

Will 2024 OFC Nations Cup happen?
Would NZF bother sending a team without the Confeds Cup carrot?
If it happens, would the dates clash with 2024 Paris Olympics (July-August)?

If the Nations Cup was a month or so prior the Olympics (was last played in early June 2016), could NZF send their Olympics squad using it as a warmup? Again presuming Olywhites had qualified for Paris.

All in all there is probably a good chance of NZF running a domestic/ALM based U23 crew, in NZ/South Pacific for games. All leading up to Paris 2024.

Then the AWs just playing friendlies in Europe or CONCACAF, sadly never coming to NZ. I'd put money on that sort of scenario.

Previous versions

1 version
Unknown editor edited July 08, 2022 03:55
Friar Tuck
carlind
coochiee
Yeah true Fiji is the one OFC team in NZ that would draw a bit of a crowd outside a WC qualifier.

Esp at Mt Smart a bit closer to Papatoetoe and a largish Fijian Indian popn 

But personally watching the AWs play an OFC team bores me to tears most often. However I’d be curious to watch AW wannabe David Ball up against M Boxall & B Tuiloma. But that’s just me

With the exception of the most recent games in Qatar, OFC teams have been reasonably competitive against the AWs, and even the PNG and Tahiti games were tight in March. Those games were also an unfair representation of how good those teams can be, with most of the teams being out of season and unable to train due to Covid. Before those, only four out of 22 games in the last decade saw the AWs win by more than two.

The crowd factor is also a tough one, because no realistic friendly (bar this Australia game probably) is getting a big crowd. The biggest draws will be far too expensive/apathetic to bring to New Zealand, and if you go the level below, the crowds drop accordingly; the average punter isn't scrambling to go watch El Salvador. No European team is coming, between Nations' League, Euros' qualifiers and WC qualifiers they have no time; no South American team is with their schedules either. So you get left with the weak CONCACAF, CAF or AFC sides that can't progress far in qualifying; in other words, countries that are probably smaller draws than our local OFC friends anyway.
 
We brought out two World Cup teams in Honduras and Paraguay (who were quarterfinalists) on the back of South Africa and 'only' got 18k and 16.5k, and the only friendlies since were Jamaica in 2012 ("over 15k") and South Africa in 2014 which got only 9k. We got 10k to both the Fiji and Solomon Islands games in 2017, so its possible to get reasonable crowds, even discounting for the difference between friendlies and competitive matches.

The complaint about the AWs not reaching their potential because they don't play enough is even more applicable to the other OFC nations. They probably won't ever be world class, but more games will only improve them, and a better Tahiti/PNG/Solomons etc is better for NZ. The whole desire to move to AFC isn't because we want to win, its because we want to lose, because that makes winning better. I'd love more stuff like that 4 team 'tournament' Schmid had in India in 2018, and with a local squad there would be genuine competition with nowhere near the same costs as the Middle East games (let alone bringing two 23-man squads over from Europe), plus it could help guys like Talay scout guys. I might well be in the minority, but I'd prefer home games against OFC opposition with local squads over having the AWs play behind-closed-doors, untelevised games at 5am against Oman.

I also feel that players wouldn't be that enthusiastic to come all the way over from Europe to play a game against the Phoenix. It would be a very expensive exercise in avoiding injuries, and turn into a carnival game, and the European clubs would probably view it similarly. The biggest issue is, neither are going to happen unfortunately. Also, if a 35/36-year-old David Ball is waltzing into an AWs squad ASAP, then the 'golden generation' tag should never be used again.
Bally could maybe play the 2024 OFC Nations Cup if he gets his citizenship done in time, but I’d be hoping that the likes of Singh, Just, McCowatt, Old, Champness, Rogerson, Whyte, Mata, even Otto Ingham and Kingsley Sinclair would’ve kicked on to the next level at that point. Plus if Bally shifts deeper with age then he’s competing with the likes of Garbett, Stamenic, Bell, Lewis etc.

But with it not being a WC year, some of those higher level players might not come over, leaving a spot for Ball.

Will 2024 OFC Nations Cup happen?
Would NZF bother sending a team without the Confeds Cup carrot?
If it happens, would the dates clash with 2024 Paris Olympics (July-August)?

If the Nations Cup was a month or so prior the Olympics (was last played in early June 2016), could NZF send their Olympics squad using it as a warmup? Again presuming Olywhites had qualified for Paris