History for coochiee

Nelfoos

coochiee

Mata and Waine are different sort of players. Waine definitely has more upside, but bigger bodied Mata still better equipped for now to play the lone striker role.

Waine's big work on - both Plymouth & AWs - is getting involved more, especially if he doesn't have much close support up front. He's got to have more touches, more involvement, can't afford to be anonymous. Big test for him these 3 games in France. With no Wood, he's the main man leading the line.

He's got to offer a good outlet for hold up play up front, especially when the team are struggling to escape a hard press. No good if his team mates pump it forward, and he just loses it time and again.

Little bit of cognitive dissonance when comparing Waine's pretty good striker performance this morning to this comment. Waine seems to me a far better hold up player and goal threat than Mata, and those are arguably Mata's best attributes. That's before we even touch on the fact that hitting it long to the striker and hoping is far from our preferred approach.

I don't think Mata is equipped to play any major role at international level at this stage based on what I've seen, but I guess his time in Auckland will tell us more. 

Waine is struggling sure, but in the Championship and still getting minutes whereas Mata isn't even considered good enough for that in the division below, in a league where his more target man style of play is the bread and butter. I don't understand the fact that this is even being discussed, there's daylight between them.

I've only seen highlights of the Guinea match this morning. If Waine had a good match that's great news. I only want him to succeed, especially with the Woodsman near the end of his great (by NZ standards) career. 

Waineo is still 23. Heaps of potential upside. Some on here have said he should return to the ALM. That's dumb. He only has to look to Wood and his 10 year slog in L1/The Championship before cracking the EPL. A great role model and mentor for Waine. Hopefully the maligned coach Rooney can also help this coming season.

But for the AWs Ben has struggled to make much of an impression against the bigger teams. He got 20-30 mins off the bench against Egypt and was completely anonymous. He started against Sweden last year - yes likely the toughest opponent AWs have had the last few years - and offered next to little. A game where we badly needed an outtlet forward, as they just caused us to lose the ball in bad areas with their hard press and bang, bang, bang we conceded 3 goals in 6 mins. Yet we almost blindly continued to try to play it out from the back as the only option.

Not saying Mata would in anyway have changed the result against a top team like the Swedes in Stockholm, but he does definitely offer something a bit different to Waine. The best example being against Ireland in Dublin (yes step down definitely from Sweden), where Mata came on for Wood and got himself in 2-3 half scoring positions. Failed to obviously convert any, and that is where he often looks poor. His finishing is pretty bloody average. But you do notice him on the pitch. He can get lots of touches. He makes himself a nuisance. Whilst with Waine you can wonder whether he is on the pitch, agfainst the bigger teams. 

I don't watch Plymouth games, but it seems last season that it was similar feedback. A bit anonymous, especially if on as a lone striker on the road. and the Pigrims were just hanging on trying to grind out a win/draw, playing deep.  And yeah that's tough for anyone, let along a young 21-22 kid still learning about the UK scene.

But there are enough differences between Mata and Waine, for Bazeley to sometimes lately choose Max to start ahead of Ben. Baze sees these guys close up in camp, would watch alot of their club stuff, and is obviously analysing the AWs opponents working out who is the best fit in Wood's absence. He's in the best position to judge, and lately he's seen enough from Mata to pick him.

That may not continue for the September window - when hopefully Wood is available anyway - and yeah I agree longer term Waine is the better player, greater likely upside etc. Mata will likely always be one of those guys frustrating to watch, regularly failing to convert good chances, often a poor first touch etc etc. But for the mean time he does do somethings better than Waine, namely yeah that hold up play, and higher involvement. That may quickly cease, as Waine improves. Who knows.

Mata had no pre season at Shrewsbury. He will have no such excuses on loan with Auckland FC this ALM season. But Shrewsbury decided to keep him, not release him on a free. So they must feel he could yet be good enough for League One. We wait to see how he goes with AFC. 

Note today Guinea's 3 CBs were aged 19, 21 & 21. The US will be a different sort of test for Waineo. They have 2 o/a very experienced veteran MLS, CBs in Zimmerman (31) & Robinson (27).

Nelfoos

coochiee

Mata and Waine are different sort of players. Waine definitely has more upside, but bigger bodied Mata still better equipped for now to play the lone striker role.

Waine's big work on - both Plymouth & AWs - is getting involved more, especially if he doesn't have much close support up front. He's got to have more touches, more involvement, can't afford to be anonymous. Big test for him these 3 games in France. With no Wood, he's the main man leading the line.

He's got to offer a good outlet for hold up play up front, especially when the team are struggling to escape a hard press. No good if his team mates pump it forward, and he just loses it time and again.

Little bit of cognitive dissonance when comparing Waine's pretty good striker performance this morning to this comment. Waine seems to me a far better hold up player and goal threat than Mata, and those are arguably Mata's best attributes. That's before we even touch on the fact that hitting it long to the striker and hoping is far from our preferred approach.

I don't think Mata is equipped to play any major role at international level at this stage based on what I've seen, but I guess his time in Auckland will tell us more. 

Waine is struggling sure, but in the Championship and still getting minutes whereas Mata isn't even considered good enough for that in the division below, in a league where his more target man style of play is the bread and butter. I don't understand the fact that this is even being discussed, there's daylight between them.

I've only seen highlights of the Guinea match this morning. If Waine had good match that's great news. I only want him to succeed, especially with the Woodsman near the end of his great (by NZ standards) career. 

Waineo is still 23. Heaps of potential upside. Some on here have said he should return to the ALM. That's dumb. He only has to look to Wood and his 10 year slog in L1/The Championship before cracking the EPL. A great role model and mentor for Waine. Hopefully the maligned coach Rooney can also help this coming season.

But for the AWs Ben has struggled to make much of an impression against the bigger teams. He got 20-30 mins off the bench against Egypt and was completely anonymous. He started against Sweden last year - yes likely the toughest opponent AWs have had the last few years - and offered next to little. A game where we badly needed an outtlet forward, as they just caused us to lose the ball in bad areas with their hard press and bang, bang, bang we conceded 3 goals in 6 mins.

Not saying Mata would in anyway have changed the result against a top team like the Swedes in Stockholm, but he does definitely offer something a bit different to Waine. The best example being against Ireland in Dublin (yes step down definitely from Sweden), where Mata came on for Wood and got himself in 2-3 half scoring positions. Failed to obviously convert any, and that is where he often looks poor. His finishing is pretty bloody average. But you do notice him on the pitch. He can get lots of touches. He makes himself a nuisance. Whilst with Waine you can wonder whether he is on the pitch, agfainst the bigger teams. 

I don't watch Plymouth games, but it seems last season that it was similar feedback. A bit anonymous, especially if on as a lone striker on the road. and the Pigrims were just hanging on trying to grind out a win/draw, playing deep.  And yeah that's tough for anyone, let along a young 21-22 kid still learning about the UK scene.

But there are enough differences between Mata and Waine, for Bazeley to sometimes lately choose Max to start ahead of Ben. Baze sees these guys close up in camp, would watch alot of their club stuff, and is obviously analysing the AWs opponents working out who is the best fit in Wood's absence. He's in the best position to judge, and lately he's seen enough from Mata to pick him.

That may not continue for the September window - when hopefully Wood is available anyway - and yeah I agree longer term Waine is the better player, greater likely upside etc. Mata will likely always be one of those guys frustrating to watch, regularly failing to convert good chances, often a poor first touch etc etc. But for the mean time he does do somethings better than Waine, namely yeah that hold up play, and higher involvement. That may quickly cease, as Waine improves. Who knows.

Mata had no pre season at Shrewsbury. He will have no such excuses on loan with Auckland FC this ALM season. But Shrewsbury decided to keep him, not release him on a free. So they must feel he could yet be good enough for League One. We wait to see how he goes with AFC. 

Note today Guinea's 3 CBs were aged 19, 21 & 21. The US will be a different sort of test for Waineo. They have 2 o/a very experienced veteran MLS, CBs in Zimmerman (31) & Robinson (27).

Nelfoos

coochiee

Mata and Waine are different sort of players. Waine definitely has more upside, but bigger bodied Mata still better equipped for now to play the lone striker role.

Waine's big work on - both Plymouth & AWs - is getting involved more, especially if he doesn't have much close support up front. He's got to have more touches, more involvement, can't afford to be anonymous. Big test for him these 3 games in France. With no Wood, he's the main man leading the line.

He's got to offer a good outlet for hold up play up front, especially when the team are struggling to escape a hard press. No good if his team mates pump it forward, and he just loses it time and again.

Little bit of cognitive dissonance when comparing Waine's pretty good striker performance this morning to this comment. Waine seems to me a far better hold up player and goal threat than Mata, and those are arguably Mata's best attributes. That's before we even touch on the fact that hitting it long to the striker and hoping is far from our preferred approach.

I don't think Mata is equipped to play any major role at international level at this stage based on what I've seen, but I guess his time in Auckland will tell us more. 

Waine is struggling sure, but in the Championship and still getting minutes whereas Mata isn't even considered good enough for that in the division below, in a league where his more target man style of play is the bread and butter. I don't understand the fact that this is even being discussed, there's daylight between them.

I've only seen highlights of the Guinea match this morning. If Waine had good match that's great news. I only want him to succeed, especially with the Woodsman near the end of his great (by NZ standards) career. 

Waineo is still 23. Heaps of potential upside. Some on here have said he should return to the ALM. That's dumb. He only has to look to Wood and his 10 year slog in L1/The Championship before cracking the EPL. A great role model and mentor for Waine. Hopefully the maligned coach Rooney can also help this coming season.

But for the AWs Ben has struggled to make much of an impression against the bigger teams. He got 20-30 mins off the bench against Egypt and was completely anonymous. He started against Sweden last year - yes likely the toughest opponent AWs have had the last few years - and offered next to little. A game where we badly needed an outtlet forward, as they just caused us to lose the ball in bad areas with their hard press and bang, bang, bang we conceded 3 goals in 6 mins.

Not saying Mata would in anyway have changed the result against a top team like the Swedes in Stockholm, but he does definitely offer something a bit different to Waine. The best example being against Ireland in Dublin (yes step down definitely from Sweden), where Mata came on for Wood and got himself in 2-3 half scoring positions. Failed to obviously convert any, and that is where he often looks poor. His finishing is pretty bloody average. But you do notice him on the pitch. He can get lots of touches. He makes himself a nuisance. Whilst with Waine you can wonder whether he is on the pitch, agfainst the bigger teams. 

I don't watch Plymouth games, but it seems last season that it was similar feedback. A bit anonymous, especially if on as a lone striker on the road. and the Pigrims were just hanging on trying to grind out a win/draw, playing deep.  And yeah that's tough for anyone, let along a young 21-22 kid still learning about the UK scene.

But there are enough differences between Mata and Waine, for Bazeley to sometimes lately choose Max to start ahead of Ben. Baze sees these guys close up in camp, would watch alot of their club stuff, and is obviously analysing the AWs opponents working out who is the best fit in Wood's absence. He's in the best position to judge, and lately he's seen enough from Mata to pick him.

That may not continue for the September window - when hopefully Wood is available anyway - and yeah I agree longer term Waine is the better player, greater likely upside etc. Mata will likely always be one of those guys frustrating to watch, regularly failing to convert good chances, often a poor first touch etc etc. But for the mean time he does do somethings better than Waine, namely yeah that hold up play, and higher involvement. That may quickly cease, as Waine improves. Who knows.

Mata had no pre season at Shrewsbury. He will have no such excuses on loan with Auckland FC this ALM season. But Shrewsbury decided to keep him, not release him on a free. So they must feel he could yet be good enough for League One. We wait to see how he goes with AFC. 

Note today Guinea's 3 CBs were aged 19, 21 & 21. The US will be a different sort of test for Waineo. They have 2 o/a very experienced CBs in Zimmerman (31) & Robinson (27).