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All Whites' Dead End Road To Russia 2018

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Posted April 25, 2016 00:37 · last edited April 25, 2016 00:40

Aza wrote:

ConanTroutman wrote:

Aza wrote:

Leggy wrote:

TV wrote:
What a muppet comment.

If that is so obvious, then why are people comparing his club record with his international one. Some players are great at club level and rubbish at international games. Of course it can happen in reverse.

Messi says hi

edit: and instead Hudson-wihongi, Lewis or Brotherton, i want to see the more experience Scandinavian ones: Keat, James, the other Boxall...

The same Messi who's scored 50 goals in 107 games for Argentina and was their best player when they reached the World Cup final 2 years ago? The Messi who laid on 3 assists in the Copa America semifinal in 2015 then was the only Argentinian player to convert a penalty in the shoot out in the final? The Messi who assisted the only goal in the 2008 Olympic final on his way to winning the gold medal? That Messi?

It's a total myth that he doesn't shine at international level

i don't want to turn this into a messi discussion thread, and i totaly respect your opinion, my point is based in:

a) most of the 50 goals are against minor oposittion (3 goals in 3 world cups iirc)

b) he never was a factor in the decisive matches of that 2 finals

c) best player of the world cup? seriosly? do you think it was deserved?

d) sorry about the offtopic

I'll keep up the off topic until the mods tell me off (anyway, it's on topic because we might play Argentina in the WC playoff)

A) actually 5 goals in 3 WC. Not really fair to say most of his goals are against minnows. In 2012-13 he got hat tricks against Brazil and Switzerland and doubles against Paraguay and Uruguay, for instance. That's 10 goals against decent sides right there. He's also got goals against Spain, Germany, France, Portugal and Croatia in friendlies and competitive goals against Colombia, Chile, Mexico, Bosnia, Serbia and Nigeria among others as well. It's not all exhibition games against Guatemala and Hong Kong.

B) not sure what you mean exactly - Do you mean the WC final and the Copa America final?  Fair enough in that he didn't do enough to win either game but it's harsh to judge his international career on the basis of two finals considering how much he did to get his teammates to those finals 

C)I didn't say he was the best player at the WC, I said he was the best player for Argentina at the WC. He wasn't far off the best player in the end either. He was the 3rd highest scorer, playing deeper than he does from Barca, and created the most chances of any player in the tournament. I think one of ze Germans should have won the golden boot but Messi was still quality.

D) the idea that he doesn't do well in international football is largely driven by the Argentine public. He isn't a heartfelt working class hero like Maradona or Tevez and he's perceived as less Argentinian because he's been in Spain since he was 13. Any other player with his record would be lauded but because he's Messi if he doesn't singlehandedly win every game he's perceived as a failure. 

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ConanTroutman edited April 25, 2016 00:40
Aza wrote:
ConanTroutman wrote:
Aza wrote:
Leggy wrote:
TV wrote:
What a muppet comment.

If that is so obvious, then why are people comparing his club record with his international one. Some players are great at club level and rubbish at international games. Of course it can happen in reverse.

Messi says hi

edit: and instead Hudson-wihongi, Lewis or Brotherton, i want to see the more experience Scandinavian ones: Keat, James, the other Boxall...

The same Messi who's scored 50 goals in 107 games for Argentina and was their best player when they reached the World Cup final 2 years ago? The Messi who laid on 3 assists in the Copa America semifinal in 2015 then was the only Argentinian player to convert a penalty in the shoot out in the final? The Messi who assisted the only goal in the 2008 Olympic final on his way to winning the gold medal? That Messi?

It's a total myth that he doesn't shine at international level

i don't want to turn this into a messi discussion thread, and i totaly respect your opinion, my point is based in:

a) most of the 50 goals are against minor oposittion (3 goals in 3 world cups iirc)

b) he never was a factor in the decisive matches of that 2 finals

c) best player of the world cup? seriosly? do you think it was deserved?

d) sorry about the offtopic

I'll keep up the off topic until the mods tell me off (anyway, it's on topic because we might play Argentina in the WC playoff)

A) actually 5 goals in 3 WC. Not really fair to say most of his goals are against minnows. In 2012-13 he got hat tricks against Brazil and Switzerland and doubles against Paraguay and Uruguay, for instance. That's 10 goals against decent sides right there. He's also got goals against Spain, Germany, and France in friendlies and competitive goals against Colombia, Chile, Mexico, Bosnia, and Nigeria among others as well. It's not all exhibition games against Guatemala and Hong Kong.

B) not sure what you mean exactly - Do you mean the WC final and the Copa America final?  Fair enough in that he didn't do enough to win either game but it's harsh to judge his international career on the basis of two finals considering how much he did to get his teammates to those finals 

C)I didn't say he was the best player at the WC, I said he was the best player for Argentina at the WC. He wasn't far off the best player in the end either. He was the 3rd highest scorer, playing deeper than he does from Barca, and created the most chances of any player in the tournament. I think one of ze Germans should have won the golden boot but Messi was still quality.

D) the idea that he doesn't do well in international football is largely driven by the Argentine public. He isn't a heartfelt working class hero like Maradona or Tevez and he's perceived as less Argentinian because he's been in Spain since he was 13. Any other player with his record would be lauded but because he's Messi if he doesn't singlehandedly win every game he's perceived as a failure.