All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

AW v Iraq - last chance saloon

398 replies · 8,554 views
almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well pleased with the draw.
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
3unt14 wrote:
I take it everyone who's having a go at the behaviour of coaching staff at full-time are including Glen Moss in their tirades?  He was visibly celebrating as well when the whistle went.

 Moss probably can afford to may have played himself into a higher paying contract from other clubs including europe.
 
Moss's celebrations have been widely misinterpreted. He was simply thinking "Yippee, now I get a four game break from playing behind this defence".
 
 

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cmon ay what a joke. Positivity..Rikis celebrating a draw against Iraq in a meaningless game.
If New Zealand ever wants to be taken seriously in football then we have to act like we are
out there to push top teams and not celebrate over a crap draw. Some players (the likes of Moss, Sigmund, Leo) should all be very pleased.
 
Herberts got to go...
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
I thought the celebrations were a little over the top, but was pleased to see it wasn't done by the players.  Most of them looked a bit pissed off that we didn't win, which I think was the right attitude to have (although I am certainly not understating what a massive achievement it was getting our first point at something like this).  In all honesty, for a third of the competition we were dire and that shouldn't be ignored.
 
The last game gave me some confidence for the play-off which is the most important thing.
 
Yep you shouldnt  prance about like that , after drawing a game you should have won.. I was pissed off enough with our coachs acceptance of a draw on Sat thank christ he didnt leap about Id have had words..... HT sez typical Herbert (he not a fan)  But Ive got doubts ....Kudos to the players esp  Siggy,  who doesnt know the meaning of 99.9% and Bertos  ...also if Milligans that good shouldnt he be getting regular play...
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Dire for a third of the competition? We were dire for a half (at best) if not two-thirds of the competition.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:
In Stuff today:

"But just when you thought that act of stupidity would never be matched along comes Ricki Herbert. The All Whites boss danced up and down the sideline after a scoreless draw with war-torn Iraq at the Confederations Cup."


That was written by Millmow in his column, in which he tries to be deliberately provocative. Nevertheless, he hardly leave the impression of being a die-hard football fan. Iraq was even more "war-torn" when it won the Asian Championships - so Im not sure what that proves. He and maybe others at the Dom also seem to have it in for Herbert at the moment. Almost weekly, they seem to have a snipe at something he does or says- or just football in general. Its been a repetitive ad tiresome theme in recent weeks. In Sidelines, two weeks ago, in big bold writing on the back page, they took the piss out of his comment that Tanzania "were a bloody good side" (as if they have a clue about African football) after we lost that match and then last week they found some quote from an international journo/newspaper bagging the AWs for being absolute rubbish after the Spain game.
 
To be fair, Millmow is a wind-up merchant who trades on controversy.  His articles on cricket are just as harsh.  On this one though, he's actually got to put this in context and understand why the platers and the coaches are so happy. 

Normo's coming home

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Let's hope Smeltz can reproduce that form for his club . . . . .
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Does anyone know if we are looking at getting any expat kiwis into the All Whites for the World Cup playoff, like Fallon or McGlashan? Or the guy in denmark?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The two problem areas we seem to have are Attacking Midfielder and the Right Side.
 
Not sure but with Parttime Ryan coming into the mix we could move Siggie to right back.
I understand that Tommy Smyth plays in the defense, is he a right back? Would he be available?
 
Right half is a tough one, not sure if Brockie is the man but what options do we have?
 
Attacking midfielder has always been a struggle for any NZ teams, Chris James seems out of favour, McGlinchy might be an option but I don't know too much about his play or avaliablity.
The other option is to include a physical mongrel type player, Brown doesn't quite fit that mould.
 
 
 
 
 
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I doubt very much Smith would be available.  He only played the start and end of last season due to injury and he probably still fancies his chances with England.

McGlinchey is generally considered left-sided.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thanks,
 
What realistic options do we have to improve the team, except Ryan coming back into the squad?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
can't believe that people are bagging a draw in a senior FIFA tournament as worthless.
FFS get a grip....that was one of the best days work by a NZ football team ever . Who cares if Herbert and co get excited.....That was a great boost for NZ's chances in the upcoming WC qualifiers.
 
I do think that ricki could do with a little help from an someone with some international experiance.....especially of playing in the middle east. A short term coaching consultant would be great.
 
I think we are in with a chance to qualify. Bahrain or the Saudi's will be tough be we showed against Iraq that if you get in their faces you can upset them. Plus having a fit Nelson and Siggy in defence will make a huge difference. But please..... we need to find a more solid RB than mulligan.
 Surely the guys playing in the MLS or Europe would be a better bet than the guys like Mulligan, Christie who can't even start for the Phoenix.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

What guys in the MLS?

Boyens, Smith and Oughton are the only three I can think of, apart from Boyens none of them are regular starters..

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Dino10 wrote:

What guys in the MLS?


Boyens, Smith and Oughton are the only three I can think of, apart from Boyens none of them are regular starters..



And Elliott. In fact I believe that Elliott is the only starter among them, think Boyens has not played much this season, although someone who follows MLS closely may be able to correct me on that.el grapadura2009-06-22 22:33:19
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I doubt very much Smith would be available.  He only played the start and end of last season due to injury and he probably still fancies his chances with England.

McGlinchey is generally considered left-sided.
 
I think its metioned on the other forums. But guys like Fallon (who actually wanted to play for NZ) surely he will get the call up?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Dino10 wrote:
The other option is to include a physical mongrel type player, Brown doesn't quite fit that mould.
 


Ah, no disresepect to Browny but I'm not sure what other mould he does fit?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Xcellent wrote:
I think its metioned on the other forums. But guys like Fallon (who actually wanted to play for NZ) surely he will get the call up?


He'd be unlikely to get a call ahead of Killen, Smeltz or Wood.  Maybe Jarrod Smith I guess.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I just wanted to see a goal.........

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yeah surely they will make room for him. Got to be good to have the amount of offers he's had. Might add something a bit different as Smeltz and Killen seemed a bit too similiar.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
People keep saying it was a meaningless game vs Iraq. For us in terms of the competition hen yes. But for Iraq, if they win they make the second round. Hardly a meaningless game.

To get a point against a team when they need to win and we are playing for nothing but pride makes it all the more impressive for me.

All Aboard the Phoenix/ All Whites Bandwagon!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah, it was decent result, and, as scoop says, it wasn't the meaningless game a lot are saying it was. Maybe a bit too over-celebrated by the coaching staff but their backs were really against the wall after the SA debacle and they got a result, and more importantly a performance that showed people we can play football.
As for improving the team and/or squad, surely Mulligan has played his last ever game internationally. Boyens will be back, but Mulligan, and, to a lesser extent Tim Brown, have a lot to prove to a lot of people. Brown's possibly got it in him to be better than he was in SA, I'm not sure Mulligan does.
As for Duncan Oughton, I'm not sure he'll be available too much more, I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to help out any more if I was him. I'd be throwing my hands up in despair if I was him and Mulligan kept getting picked ahead of me.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There has been much gnashing of teeth and knee jerk reaction to the whole Confeds Cup experience. The other sidebar to all of the debate that most have missed is the two world cup qualfiiers looming rather large in Oct/Nov. I feel sure we would have approached this tournament differently were it not for these games and the need to give a likely starting XI time together and experience under pressure. Here are my thoughts for what they are worth:

Mulligan v Scott - Herbert wanted to pick Scott for the Sth Africa game but his knee ruled him out, as it did for the final moments of the Iraq game. Scott has moved ahead of Mulligan at right back.
Brown in midfield - lacking in my view but always a favourite of Herbert, not sure why. A poor man's Ray Wilkins - can only pass square or to the opposition strikers. Scowls a lot but far from intimidating
Nelsen's return - this should allow for a central defensive pairing with Sigmund. Maybe then open the door for Vicelich to move into a holding midfield role (assuming he stays on). Or Sigmund and Scott as full backs. OR........ could Nelsen operate in a destroying role in midfield as well as getting forward?
Lochhead - as bad as Mulligan in my view. Not the same player since the failed Middlesbrough trip See earlier comment for replacement.
Elliott - player of the tournament for us alongside Moss. But needs an attacking option playing next to him, NOT Brown and Christie
Mulligan - exposed for pace and fitness and positioning at fullback. Get him in a midfield role where he runs his arse off, harries and chases, picks up the pieces and works like buggery - AKA Keith Mackay
Christie - on borrowed time, hard to believe he was called upon as a regular sub. My mail has him leaving the Phoenix, let alone the All Whites. Good hard working grafter but otherwise out of his depth.
Brockie - not sure, saw glimpses of promise but still not sure
Smeltz and Killen - both good players, will improve for the time together. Killy needs to play, sign him up for the Phoenix
Chris James - i have never seen this guy play outstandingly. Picked on the back of playing for Fulham reserves but what has he done?
 
Future (WC Play Offs):
Paston
Sigmund, Nelsen, Vicelich, Scott (or play Lochhead and move Vicelich into midfield)
Bertos, Elliott, Smeltz, Mulligan (maybe but i am struggling for options here, Barron??)
Fallon, Killen
 
Look to get Fallon in the mix and play him up front with Killen. Drop Smeltz into an attacking midfield role in front of Elliott and Mulligan/Vicelich and encourage him to get forward. Play two holding midfielders alongside with Bertos as your wide option to get ball into Fallon and Killen. Alternatively bomb the middle of the park and get Smeltz running off the two big men.
 
Potentially we have a side with the following 'big' men: Nelsen, Vicelich, Elliott, Killen, Smeltz, Fallon, Sigmund (plays like one). Let's play to this strength and bully the sh*t out of Saudi or Bahrain while not totally giving up on playing some football. You have enough ability to control and pass in this group as well to do something on the deck if required.
 
As for Herbert, Ricki needs to concentrate more on the job in hand and less on responding to the media or criticism. Each time they play well the first thing you hear is usually 'that will show the critics'. No, what will show the critics is playing well consistently and not turning out the kind of performances we saw against Spain and Sth Africa that lead to justifiable criticism.
 
As for the celebrations, Ricki is well aware of the history of the game in this country, he and Brian are very proud NZers. Their reaction was to finally getting the monkey off our backs of 'not ever winning a point in a FIFA competition'. I'm prepared to cut some slack and celebrate with them on this occasion.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
^ agree with pretty much everything you've said.....

if we can get Reid, Daniel  and Fallon to play for us I'd have.

                      Paston

Sigmund    Nelsen    Reid    Scott

                      Vicelich

           James    Elliott     Bertos

                       Fallon
   
                        Killen  


I'd say good bye to Mulligan, Christie and Brown

bench would have

Smith
Smeltz
Lochhead
Bannatyne
Daniel
Boyens
Oughton
Wood
smittyz112009-06-23 18:08:17
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Like the idea of saying goodbye to Christie, Mulligan and Brown (Though in browns case, i cannot see that happening) scoop2009-06-23 18:12:27

All Aboard the Phoenix/ All Whites Bandwagon!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Does anyone else find it ridiculous that James was hardly given a run?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yes.

You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
didnt James look a bit fat?

Founder

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
didnt James look a bit fat?
 
yes

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I doubt very much Smith would be available.  He only played the start and end of last season due to injury and he probably still fancies his chances with England.

McGlinchey is generally considered left-sided.
#
 
News, the other point may stand but Smith's a long, long way away from any England squads isn't he?
james dean2009-06-23 20:17:09

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
didnt James look a bit fat?


yeah its from all the bullsh*t reasons given to him by RH for not playing him....
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
News, the other point may stand but Smith's a long, long way away from any England squads isn't he?


He was a starting Centre Back for the English U17 side in South Korea.  He'd almost certainly be in line for the U20 and U21 squads.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Long way from the U17s to the seniors though News as many have found out.  Probably more of a long term prospect as he's unlikely to jump ship prior to the qualifier.
 
If we do qualify and guys start coming otu of the woodwork, do we accept them or do we go with the guys who got us there?

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That sounds like the Wilson/van Hattum connundrum of a quarter of a century ago....
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not familiar witht hat, what was the outcome?

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Long way from the U17s to the seniors though News as many have found out.� Probably more of a long term prospect as he's unlikely to jump ship prior to the qualifier.
�

If we do qualify and guys start coming otu of the woodwork, do we accept them or do we go with the guys who got us there?


You go with the best players available as well as using some of the WC prize money to get an experienced tactical coach to come along. A re-selection trial can be held for next year, where you can invite players and see if they are up to form and are motivated for the WC. Of course what some of the players did during the WCQ are taken in consideration as well. But with the best players, you are able to do more as a squad.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Are you suggesting an open trial for the NZ national team?

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Not familiar witht hat, what was the outcome?
 
 you must be joking

A dog with a bone :)

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Are you suggesting an open trial for the NZ national team?


Why not, a couple of probables verses possibles type games will be interesting match up. In the past, it has worked for the All Blacks until super Rugby TV allowed the selectors to get a decent look in.

Since a number of our players lack TV coverage because they don't line up for the first team or on the bench or playing with reserves, it can't be a bad idea to have a series of games to assess their form and competitiveness for positions.

It's more of a general assessment of where certain players are as well feedback for some fringe players. Even Vicelich can get a feedback on his general form before he makes a decision.

Also it's good publicity and makes people talk about who should go where etc.AllWhitebelievr2009-06-24 15:54:54
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