Starting XI
1.6K
·
4.9K
·
about 16 years

So, there's two sides to this, both with some valid arguments:

(1) As Erceg argues: our women's national team players, apart from a few like herself on good foreign club contracts, struggle financially and are not adequately recompensed by NZ Football for their large commitment in  time and effort. Players cannot maintain a High Performance standard when they are struggling to make a living.

Her argument here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/896...

Good summary and background here from Jeremy Ruane, women's football expert:

http://www.ultimatenzsoccer.com/Scoreboard/abby_er...

My response: No doubt true in many or most cases. Could some more money be paid to those Football Ferns who are amateur?

The entire Aussie Matildas national women's team went on strike in 2015 over the pay disparity between the Matildas and Socceroos, leading to the embarrassing cancellation at short notice of the Matilda's friendly series against the USA in the USA.

Many stories about that here:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=matildas+on+strike&F...

Former Matildas captain and most senior player Melissa Barbieri did an Abby Erceg and retired from the national team over it:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backg...

'We're not asking for millions of dollars,' midfielder Teresa Polias says. 'We're asking for minimum wage, to sustain our lives off the pitch to do well on it. It's as simple as that.'

A basic Matildas contract is just $21,000 a year, two-thirds of the minimum wage.

By contrast, a Socceroo playing all Socceroos matches will have earned more than $200,000 so far this year alone [October]—even though the men are ranked 58th in the world and the women are 9th."

Abby Erceg's demands in contrast, are much more modest than the Matilda's: Seems that NZF do not even cover expenses.

"We are not looking for thousands or even hundred of dollars a week. We are just looking for New Zealand Football to take away our expenses so we can do our job."

Erceg mentioned on TV having to borrow money from her parents for petrol to get to training - and the petrol running out leaving her stranded.

(2) NZ Football point of view: We don't have much money in the coffers for increased funding of the women's national team program, especially since the only decent source of funding for the Ferns' program was the High Performance Sport NZ money which has been cut.

NZ Football CEO Andy Martin stated on TV that NZ men's and women's national teams are paid the same daily rate when in camp and the same split of tournament prize money.which is rare anywhere in the world.

My response: NZ Football can validly make the point that the women's national team do not generate the same level of public interest and financial return as the men's national team. Compare the crowds at games and TV viewing figures for domestic men's and women's football and there's a huge disparity. Women themselves do not turn out in any numbers to watch domestic women's football or Football Ferns games, nor do they watch women's football when it is on TV.

The Football Ferns generate very little financial return for the national body from TV revenue etc. compared for example to the millions the All Whites have generated from the 2010 World Cup, Mexico play-offs for the 2014 World Cup, Confederations Cup etc. NZ Football are earning $US 1.7 million for the All Whites just turning up at the Confederations Cup in Russia this year, more if they progress from their group.

Women's football, as everywhere in the world, doesn't generate the same public interest and financial income as men's football. When the US women's footballers protested about their poor pay compared to men's national team players, it was explained in some detail by the US Soccer Federation that although home crowds at US women's team's games are often good, the women's team doesn't actually generate that much revenue. More people actually watch US men's team's matches on TV overall and the TV rights money is much larger.

The USA may seem to have greater public interest in women's football than most other countries, but actually the success in terms of results of the women's national team has merely created passing public interest not followed by lasting financial backing or crowd turn-out for the domestic women's game. The US women's league has gone bankrupt a few times in the last decade, at times they have consequently had no national women's league, and crowds have not been great apart from isolated finals. TV coverage and revenue and viewing figures are minimal. Same in Brazil, where women's national team players have voiced their concerns about struggling on low wages. The situation is much worse in all other South American countries outside of Brazil and Colombia (the only two countries in South America with strong women's national team programs) and in most countries in the world (only about half of whom have a women's national team). Germany, Sweden, Japan and a handful of developed countries are exceptions.

However, if it is true that Football Ferns players are not even being paid expenses for getting to training etc., then this needs to be remedied. Matildas players in Australia receive an annual salary, which no doubt increased after their 2015 strike action. Even if NZF won't give Ferns players a salary, more no doubt could be done to help players who are struggling financially. The above article link on the Matildas' strike, mentions that some national team players were unemployed or cleaning toilets. No doubt some Football Ferns face similar challenges.  

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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about 15 years

Big Pete 65 wrote:

However, if it is true that Football Ferns players are not even being paid expenses for getting to training etc., then this needs to be remedied. 

Provided they do it across all teams. Then its fair, just like the FFs getting the same per diem as the AWs
Legend
13K
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25K
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over 9 years

Why don't the domestic FFS & Abbey approach the Russian meat millionaire (sorry don't remember his name) living in ChCh to bankroll a Kiwi team in the W League. He has mooted supporting a ChCh A League bid before.

It’s a short summer league. All the players that are students would be on uni holidays, they could find some cheap accommodation in ChCh for a few mths (maybe they can all pitch tents on Big Pete's front lawn!), and our Russian friend has apparently has setup some great training facilities at Halswell.

Those in Auckland with jobs would either have to commute, make themselves unavailable or ask for a few mths off work.

Help appease all those people that criticise women’s program for being too Auckland centric.

Just an idea but I like it - just need to convince the Ruskie & FFA of course!!

ChCh is unlikely to get an A League side, so if the Ruskie wants to support a Trans Tasman team in ChCh a women’s side is probably his best beat.

Probably fanciful stuff, but crazier ideas have come to fruition.

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
·
about 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Big Pete 65 wrote:

However, if it is true that Football Ferns players are not even being paid expenses for getting to training etc., then this needs to be remedied. 

Provided they do it across all teams. Then its fair, just like the FFs getting the same per diem as the AWs

No, don't equate equity with equality.

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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about 15 years

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

Marquee
1.4K
·
5.3K
·
about 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.
Starting XI
4.2K
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3.7K
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over 10 years

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

WeeNix
200
·
950
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over 14 years

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

They receive money when in camp for games/tournaments. The money Erceg wants for them is for the domestic players who train day-in day-out throughout the year, and receive no money for that.

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
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about 17 years

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

Starting XI
1.6K
·
4.9K
·
about 16 years

coochiee wrote:

Why don't the domestic FFS & Abbey approach the Russian meat millionaire (sorry don't remember his name) living in ChCh to bankroll a Kiwi team in the W League. He has mooted supporting a ChCh A League bid before.

It’s a short summer league. All the players that are students would be on uni holidays, they could find some cheap accommodation in ChCh for a few mths (maybe they can all pitch tents on Big Pete's front lawn!), and our Russian friend has apparently has setup some great training facilities at Halswell.

Those in Auckland with jobs would either have to commute, make themselves unavailable or ask for a few mths off work.

Help appease all those people that criticise women’s program for being too Auckland centric.

Just an idea but I like it - just need to convince the Ruskie & FFA of course!!

ChCh is unlikely to get an A League side, so if the Ruskie wants to support a Trans Tasman team in ChCh a women’s side is probably his best beat.

Probably fanciful stuff, but crazier ideas have come to fruition.

Russian tycoon Slava Meyn doesn't seem to have ambitions in terms of women's football at this stage.

His Christchurch Football Academy in Yaldhurst is going great guns, hosting NZ's biggest annual international youth football tournament with teams from Australia and around the world.

He's concentrating on youth development and making club Christchurch United a major force again.

His coaching recruits for Chch Utd are over-kill in terms of what is required to get out of the second tier of Canterbury football and back into the Mainland Premier League, having recruited a top Brazilian coach in Fernando Lambert and as Technical Director, Dutch former Eredivisie player, Dutch FA  Coaching Development Officer and until recently Technical Director of Al Arabi in Qatar, Pieter in ‘t Groen:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/sport/87534954/Ch...

https://www.nznewsuk.co.uk/living/?id=75358&story=...

Considering that NZ women's champions Mainland Pride attract crowds of about one hundred spectators here in Chch, it's unlikely even Slava Meyn would want to put money into a W-League team, even if crowds were boosted to 500 and the odd match got on the tele (he'd probably have to pay Sky for TV coverage).

My garden is fully taken up by a vege patch and one of the largest walnut trees in Canterbury.

Starting XI
4.2K
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3.7K
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over 10 years

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

So you didn't correct me so is it safe to say I'm not wrong?

In which case why do they need more money than others?

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
·
about 17 years

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

So you didn't correct me so is it safe to say I'm not wrong?

In which case why do they need more money than others?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

Marquee
2.1K
·
6.4K
·
almost 15 years

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

So you didn't correct me so is it safe to say I'm not wrong?

In which case why do they need more money than others?

they receive nothing for training.

The money the receive is when they are playing and at tournaments.

The training is in akld organised by NZF and is "voluntary" to bridge the gap between club and playing for Ferns.

Have you listened to any of the interviews or read anything written ?

NLP
Trialist
17
·
97
·
over 9 years

she doesn't really say what she wants the players to get or at what level they should be getting it . does she want them paid on a sliding scale . (has a consistant starter earned the right to more money than a "dirt tracker" ? ) . In any sport its not a given that you'll end up making money or break even as you strife to get to the top . the only way you get to the top is to train like a professional  ( early in a sports career that comes at a huge financial cost ). when and if you get to the top then the financial rewards will follow . If the money is there then thats great - pay them .  

Legend
13K
·
25K
·
over 9 years

Big Pete 65 wrote:

Russian tycoon Slava Meyn doesn't seem to have ambitions in terms of women's football at this stage.

His Christchurch Football Academy in Yaldhurst is going great guns, hosting NZ's biggest annual international youth football tournament with teams from Australia and around the world.

He's concentrating on youth development and making club Christchurch United a major force again.

His coaching recruits for Chch Utd are over-kill in terms of what is required to get out of the second tier of Canterbury football and back into the Mainland Premier League, having recruited a top Brazilian coach in Fernando Lambert and as Technical Director, Dutch former Eredivisie player, Dutch FA  Coaching Development Officer and until recently Technical Director of Al Arabi in Qatar, Pieter in ‘t Groen:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/sport/87534954/Ch...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/sport/87534954/Ch...https://www.nznewsuk.co.uk/living/?id=75358&story=...

Considering that NZ women's champions Mainland Pride attract crowds of about one hundred spectators here in Chch, it's unlikely even Slava Meyn would want to put money into a W-League team, even if crowds were boosted to 500 and the odd match got on the tele (he'd probably have to pay Sky for TV coverage).

My garden is fully taken up by a vege patch and one of the largest walnut trees in Canterbury.

Thanks for the Slava Meyn update Big Pete. Slava obviously has some moolah.

The potential limited crowd support for a semi-pro W League side (no matter what NZ city it is based in) does raise the fundamental problem that crops up with Abbey’s plea for more cash.

Crowds of only 500 people, don’t bring in gate takings, don’t create media interest/TV rights, don’t bring in sponsorship dollars or encourage rich benefactors to throw their dollars around.

This is the same for any sport at any level whether it be played by men, women or alien life forms!

Still if I was Abbey I’d give Slava a phone call. You don’t ask, you don’t get - and the number of wealthy football benefactors/philanthropists in NZ is very limited.

Legend
2.2K
·
16K
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over 17 years

coochie for NZF Commercial Director

Cock
2.7K
·
16K
·
about 15 years

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

I get the point you are making Bullion I do, but you are not taking your own point to the next logical conclusion because the next headline will be
"Durante retires from AWs over lack of pay for domestic players. NZF can do it for the women but not for the men" 

then you have the sycophants come out of the woods saying that the men generate all the money so why should they not get the same as the women and it would turn absolutely sexist.

Regardless, NZF must keep the remuneration identical across both teams because they'll open up more cans of worms than they would like.

I would also put this trolling phrase at you: The men should get more because qualification to Russia brings in min $5m to ensure the next 4 years at NZF and in turn, other teams, is funded.

(I don't believe that but there will be people out there that absolutely advocate that position)

Marquee
1.4K
·
5.3K
·
about 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

I get the point you are making Bullion I do, but you are not taking your own point to the next logical conclusion because the next headline will be
"Durante retires from AWs over lack of pay for domestic players. NZF can do it for the women but not for the men" 

then you have the sycophants come out of the woods saying that the men generate all the money so why should they not get the same as the women and it would turn absolutely sexist.

Regardless, NZF must keep the remuneration identical across both teams because they'll open up more cans of worms than they would like.

I would also put this trolling phrase at you: The men should get more because qualification to Russia brings in min $5m to ensure the next 4 years at NZF and in turn, other teams, is funded.

(I don't believe that but there will be people out there that absolutely advocate that position)

Do you think Durante's standard of living is more negatively impacted from his participation with the AWs than an amateur FFs standard of living with their participation with the FFs?
Cock
2.7K
·
16K
·
about 15 years

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

I get the point you are making Bullion I do, but you are not taking your own point to the next logical conclusion because the next headline will be
"Durante retires from AWs over lack of pay for domestic players. NZF can do it for the women but not for the men" 

then you have the sycophants come out of the woods saying that the men generate all the money so why should they not get the same as the women and it would turn absolutely sexist.

Regardless, NZF must keep the remuneration identical across both teams because they'll open up more cans of worms than they would like.

I would also put this trolling phrase at you: The men should get more because qualification to Russia brings in min $5m to ensure the next 4 years at NZF and in turn, other teams, is funded.

(I don't believe that but there will be people out there that absolutely advocate that position)

Do you think Durante's standard of living is more negatively impacted from his participation with the AWs than an amateur FFs standard of living with their participation with the FFs?

Huh? That makes no sense.
Abbey herself is a fulltime pro so she is not negatively impacted but she came out and said it relative to the girls that do the FFs training. If Durante says the same thing about the boys that do the AWs training, then that equally applies.

Marquee
1.4K
·
5.3K
·
about 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Bananas wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

This is all about equity. Its the central fudgeing argument.
This has to apply both ways. We would be the first to say 'give them the same per diem' if they were getting less than the AWs so why can the reverse not apply?

If for a minute you don't think of this as an AWs vs FFs - who gets the money, zero sum equation; but just as what can be done to allow the FFs to continuing meeting NZF expectations of them as well as being able to maintain a standard of living.

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they currently receiving the same money from NZF per day?

If so why do the FFs need more money?  Surely if its not enough, it isnt enough for anyone.

I get the point you are making Bullion I do, but you are not taking your own point to the next logical conclusion because the next headline will be
"Durante retires from AWs over lack of pay for domestic players. NZF can do it for the women but not for the men" 

then you have the sycophants come out of the woods saying that the men generate all the money so why should they not get the same as the women and it would turn absolutely sexist.

Regardless, NZF must keep the remuneration identical across both teams because they'll open up more cans of worms than they would like.

I would also put this trolling phrase at you: The men should get more because qualification to Russia brings in min $5m to ensure the next 4 years at NZF and in turn, other teams, is funded.

(I don't believe that but there will be people out there that absolutely advocate that position)

Do you think Durante's standard of living is more negatively impacted from his participation with the AWs than an amateur FFs standard of living with their participation with the FFs?

Huh? That makes no sense.
Abbey herself is a fulltime pro so she is not negatively impacted but she came out and said it relative to the girls that do the FFs training. If Durante says the same thing about the boys that do the AWs training, then that equally applies.

It's not about Abby. It's not, as much as you try, an AWs vs FFs thing. You can treat the AWs and FFs equally, you can treat those within the FFs equally amongst each other but it is still not fair on those that are struggling.


The issue that Abby is raising is that some of the FFs are under stress trying to maintain a standard of living.

"I will be stepping back in the hopes to create change for the current and future generations of nz footballers." - Abby's instagram post

"What we trying to put together now is something that allows players to be in an environment where they can not only perform but live, pay the bills and do what most people do in a working environment," she told RNZ.

"There comes a point where if you're going to commit as much time as we been asked to and perform at the level we do, it is not just about the passion.

"We can't maintain the standards we're being held to without the necessary input to perform at that level. It gets to a point where players break down essentially."

Cock
2.7K
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16K
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about 15 years

I complete understand all of that and I'm not making it an AWs vs FFs thing. 

Again, I go back to the next logical step. Regardless what you say or how you dress it, if you give the FFs one thing, there will be so much pressure from stakeholders in football to see the men get the same because on a contribution basis, the men bring more to the the table period. If you think that wont happen, then you are kidding yourself. The FFs get more than the AWs at the moment via HPS and failed. You take from other programs in NZF (be it juniors, futsal, beach soccer, men, women, youth, marketing, refs) there will be a crazy backlash if they do not succeed because investment does not equal success - we just have  hypothetical that they can. Not withstanding that there is no money anyway, you then create a rule for others to want more cash and they can go 'well we may not succeed but thats ok cause the FFs didn't either'

There is no way in hell there will a difference in funding level to being FFs up to a certain level just because they 'do it harder' than others or perceive that they do. They are the ones making the noise at the moment but I have heard that there are other areas of the game just as disgruntled with NZF funding but keep their gobs shut.

NLP
Trialist
17
·
97
·
over 9 years

interesting read.   http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/438845/us-olympic-wins-not-due-government-involvement

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
·
about 17 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

I complete understand all of that and I'm not making it an AWs vs FFs thing. 

Again, I go back to the next logical step. Regardless what you say or how you dress it, if you give the FFs one thing, there will be so much pressure from stakeholders in football to see the men get the same because on a contribution basis, the men bring more to the the table period. If you think that wont happen, then you are kidding yourself. The FFs get more than the AWs at the moment via HPS and failed. You take from other programs in NZF (be it juniors, futsal, beach soccer, men, women, youth, marketing, refs) there will be a crazy backlash if they do not succeed because investment does not equal success - we just have  hypothetical that they can. Not withstanding that there is no money anyway, you then create a rule for others to want more cash and they can go 'well we may not succeed but thats ok cause the FFs didn't either'

There is no way in hell there will a difference in funding level to being FFs up to a certain level just because they 'do it harder' than others or perceive that they do. They are the ones making the noise at the moment but I have heard that there are other areas of the game just as disgruntled with NZF funding but keep their gobs shut.

I don't think it's about bringing up levels but even just maintaining levels. I just don't know what the FFs expect of themselves and NZF expect of them from a performance point of view, if they want to maintain standards it seems unsustainable for some of their players - do both reduce their expectations and make things easier (less training, less international tournaments and friendlies and time away from work, not pressuring players to move to Auckland etc.)?

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
·
about 17 years

There is more a correlation between gdp per capita and population

"An ordered‐logit model estimation shows that the probability for a country to win medals at the Olympics increases with GDP per capita and population."

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1618474...

WeeNix
410
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920
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over 11 years

what does mose dyer do for a living and how much would he be "getting" to play football?

WeeNix
200
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950
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over 14 years

Whatever expenses Eastern Suburbs and Onehunga Sports cover, he's 19 or so, so probably studying or working some menial job.

Starting XI
1.6K
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4.9K
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about 16 years

Also this morning Heather du Plessis-Allen devotes her entire Herald on Sunday column to Erceg and the Ferns:

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_i...

A good well-intentioned effort from Heather as an example of someone who hasn't much knowledge of football but wants to see women's sport better-supported. 

And Tony Smith made some good points in the Press earlier in the week:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/896...

Looks like Erceg's taking a stand is having the desired effect of resonating in the wider media in NZ.

WeeNix
280
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630
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almost 17 years

Blogstering on this....

https://in-the-back-of-the.net/2017/02/24/guest-po...

And the Trade Me auction to raise some petrol money for the Ferns....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=12...

Trialist
9
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22
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over 7 years

At first, sorry, if my english is not perfect. I am not a native speaker because I am german. 

On my view it's a very clear situation:

The Ferns are top 20 of the world, while the All Whites even need a penalty shootout vs. Papua New Guinea just to win the Oceanian Cup ... 

Erceg has won the NWSL in the USA, Amber Hearn plays here in Germany, Ali Riley plays top level in sweden, Rosie White made it to the NWSL, too.
'And where are the All Whites, no one of them play on a higher level. The keeper Marinovic plays here in our 4th german division the same league as Marco Rojas, who played for the Stuttgart farm team, because he wasn't good enough for the 2nd divison team ... 

I know that every federation want to play a good role in MEN football, but NZF should evaluate WHERE they can make a statement, and where they are only the end of the bench ... 

In women football they HAVE this chance. It woud be very sad to waste this talented team.

I have read here, that a qualification for the All Whites would bring more money. That might be, but what are their chances?
Look at the current running qualification: The AW already lost two points in NEW CALEDONIA ... 
Sorry, but New Caledonia, do you know what Top 20 teams would do with them? I cannot write these bloody details, because I don't wanna abuse children reading here ... ;-)
I am pretty sure, NZL will win the oceanian competition, but how should the win the last round vs. the 5th best team of South America???

Sorry, but THIS is the reality ... 

If NZF wants to play an international role they should spend most of their efforts in the Ferns. 

Starting XI
920
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2.5K
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over 12 years

did anyone catch Football weekly after the super city derby today - some fresh perspective on the issue that has previously not been mentioned.

WeeNix
200
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950
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over 14 years

chopah wrote:

did anyone catch Football weekly after the super city derby today - some fresh perspective on the issue that has previously not been mentioned.

was there? - only had half an ear on it, but I heard de Jong launch into the thing about the HPSNZ funding going from 800/year to 500/year, which is a red herring, as the problems go back to before that (though it undoubtedly makes things harder going forward). What's needed here is something probably outside of that, or a reallocation away from arranging internationals and back towards running a programme here, though that would probably lead to its own bad effects.

Budgie lover
620
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2.2K
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about 17 years

chopah wrote:

did anyone catch Football weekly after the super city derby today - some fresh perspective on the issue that has previously not been mentioned.

Got a link?

Starting XI
920
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2.5K
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over 12 years

inafoxhole wrote:

chopah wrote:

did anyone catch Football weekly after the super city derby today - some fresh perspective on the issue that has previously not been mentioned.

was there? - only had half an ear on it, but I heard de Jong launch into the thing about the HPSNZ funding going from 800/year to 500/year, which is a red herring, as the problems go back to before that (though it undoubtedly makes things harder going forward). What's needed here is something probably outside of that, or a reallocation away from arranging internationals and back towards running a programme here, though that would probably lead to its own bad effects.

Think you missed the bit where he said the ferns had an additional funding source which provided exactly what Abby is asking for, I think he said 18k per player and that NZF can't replace that.

Starting XI
920
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2.5K
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over 12 years

liberty_nz wrote:

chopah wrote:

did anyone catch Football weekly after the super city derby today - some fresh perspective on the issue that has previously not been mentioned.

Got a link?

Was on SKY

WeeNix
200
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950
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over 14 years

chopah wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

chopah wrote:

did anyone catch Football weekly after the super city derby today - some fresh perspective on the issue that has previously not been mentioned.

was there? - only had half an ear on it, but I heard de Jong launch into the thing about the HPSNZ funding going from 800/year to 500/year, which is a red herring, as the problems go back to before that (though it undoubtedly makes things harder going forward). What's needed here is something probably outside of that, or a reallocation away from arranging internationals and back towards running a programme here, though that would probably lead to its own bad effects.

Think you missed the bit where he said the ferns had an additional funding source which provided exactly what Abby is asking for, I think he said 18k per player and that NZF can't replace that.

Cheers.

Starting XI
1.6K
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4.9K
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about 16 years

CoderboyPB wrote:

At first, sorry, if my english is not perfect. I am not a native speaker because I am german. 

On my view it's a very clear situation:

The Ferns are top 20 of the world, while the All Whites even need a penalty shootout vs. Papua New Guinea just to win the Oceanian Cup ... 

Erceg has won the NWSL in the USA, Amber Hearn plays here in Germany, Ali Riley plays top level in sweden, Rosie White made it to the NWSL, too.
'And where are the All Whites, no one of them play on a higher level. The keeper Marinovic plays here in our 4th german division the same league as Marco Rojas, who played for the Stuttgart farm team, because he wasn't good enough for the 2nd divison team ... 

I know that every federation want to play a good role in MEN football, but NZF should evaluate WHERE they can make a statement, and where they are only the end of the bench ... 

In women football they HAVE this chance. It woud be very sad to waste this talented team.

I have read here, that a qualification for the All Whites would bring more money. That might be, but what are their chances?
Look at the current running qualification: The AW already lost two points in NEW CALEDONIA ... 
Sorry, but New Caledonia, do you know what Top 20 teams would do with them? I cannot write these bloody details, because I don't wanna abuse children reading here ... ;-)
I am pretty sure, NZL will win the oceanian competition, but how should the win the last round vs. the 5th best team of South America???

Sorry, but THIS is the reality ... 

If NZF wants to play an international role they should spend most of their efforts in the Ferns. 

Our women's team aren't as successful as you make out. They have won only three of their last ten games (two of those wins were friendlies). They have appeared in four FIFA Women's World Cups and never won a game (three draws, nine losses). The same level of success as our men's team (three draws in FIFA World Cups, the rest losses). At the last Women's World Cup in Canada in 2015, we failed to win a game, finished bottom of our group and ended the tournament ranked 19th of the 24 teams taking part.

The Football Ferns have competed in three Olympics, played ten, won two, drew one and lost seven. In last year's Rio Olympics we failed to make it out of our group and finished the tournament ranked ninth of the twelve teams taking part with only Colombia, South Africa and Zimbabwe ranked worse than us (none of whom are strong in women's football).

Our women's team has improved a lot over the last 14 years with better funding and coaching. In 2004 they were beaten 11-0 by North Korea and rarely won any games. They did well in their early years 1975 until the mid 1990's when women's football was amateur in every country and not well-funded, so NZ could compete well even against countries like the USA.

There's just such a huge difference between men's and women's international football both in NZ and internationally in terms of public interest and financial backing and return, that many of your points aren't really valid.

It's easier for our women's team to gain a higher FIFA ranking than our men's team because women's football is relatively weak internationally and our women's team has a basic level of funding and a fulltime national coach which many other countries lack, and we play regularly.

FIFA has over 200 members but many of them don't even have a national women's team (most Middle Eastern countries, many African and Asian countries). Only 127 FIFA members have a women's team who have played at least one international in the last 18 months and so have a ranking. Women's football is even weak in South America where Brazil is the only country strong in women's football (their national team gets good results but the players there complain that they are not paid much nor are they respected by their FA or the public). Brazil have only had a national women's team since 1986 - the idea of women playing football has only relatively recently become acceptable in South America. The only other South American team ranked in the FIFA top 50 is Colombia. NZ usually beat Colombia and Argentina in women's football because they aren't that strong. Argentina only played it first women's international in 1993. 

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-tab...

Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Bolivia and Ecuador have not played a women's international for more than 18 months due to lack of funding and so do not even have a FIFA ranking any more !

There are only three African sides in the world's top 50.

Outside the top twenty countries in women's football there's a big fall-off in standard. NZ are ranked 19 (have fallen from 17 over the last year). But we have a record of beating all the countries ranked below us over the last decade. That's because they are not very strong, rather than NZ being particularly good. The teams ranked 21 - 30 are Scotland, Colombia, Russia, Austria, Belgium, Mexico, Ukraine, Finland, Costa Rica, Thailand. Those UEFA countries and Mexico are strong in men's football but not so much in women's.

Outside the say top 26 countries the standard in women's football is poor. Thailand are ranked 30 but NZ did not even field our national team against them late last year in two friendlies but rather an invitation "NZ A" side with a couple of internationals and several teenagers as young as 15 and still beat them comfortably.

Our national men's team, as in every country, generates much more public interest and revenue for our national association than our women's team. NZ Football are being paid $US 1.7 million for competing at the Confederations Cup in June. They earned $NZ 6 million for the TV rights for the play-off against Mexico for the last World Cup. At club level, our representative at the FIFA Club World Cup (usually Auckland City) earns a decent amount for competing, half of which goes to the other teams in our national league. 

In comparison, even if our national women's team was more successful, there just isn't the same sort of money they would generate. They would still lose money for the national body. Even in the USA with its successful women's national team, the men's team generates much more income through TV rights and spectators at games, and its women's league has gone bust a few times the last decade with poor crowds, low TV ratings and minimal commercial sponsorship. Meanwhile Major League Soccer has been very successful.

Even when the Football Ferns had their highest level of funding at last year's Rio Olympics with extra money from the government through High Performance Sport NZ because of their success in making it out of their group at the 2012 London Olympics, they couldn't repeat the success and make it out of their group again. Hence that High Performance Sport money has been cut right back with NZ Football unable to meet the shortfall.

As for your claim that "none of the All Whites play on a higher level" at club level that's an uninformed claim with Winston Reid the captain of West Ham in the English Premier League, Ryan Thomas a regular at PEC Zwolle for four seasons in the Dutch Eredivisie, Chris Wood the second-highest scorer in the Championship at Leeds, Tommy Smith at Ipswich Town, Sam Brotherton on a full pro contract at Sunderland, Bill Tuiloma at Marseilles, Themi Tzimopoulos a regular in the Greek Super League for several years, Jake Gleeson first choice goalie at Portland Timbers in Major League Soccer (playing at a much higher level than Marinovich), Jeremy Brockie is one of the highest goalscorers in the South African league the last two seasons, Michael Boxall is one of the best defenders in the South African league. Plus there's all the players who play in the A-League such as Rojas (showing how good he is again this season - he was never given a fair chance at Stuttgart due to injury problems and the club's management problems with so many changes of manager and relegation), Moss, Smeltz (second-highest scorer in the history of the A-League), McGlinchey, Barbarouses etc.

The A-League is probably under-rated in Germany but the best teams are of a similar level to the English Championship (Sam Allardyce said this after coaching both Blackburn Rovers and West Ham in friendlies against A-League clubs).

Trialist
9
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22
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over 7 years

Well I wouldn't overrate missing the knockout stage in Rio because the draw was such bad luck, it's really hard to get more bad luck: They got USA and France which made it nearly unpossible to become on of the two best 3rd ranged teams. 


In Canada it was bad luck too: First they missed a penalty and then they were fooled by the refs in the last game because China got an unjust penalty. Without this they would have won the game and would have made it to the knockout stage.


According to A-League: I have watched a Nix Game round about 2 weeks ago (0:3) and I am pretty sure my local based 3rd div team (SC Paderborn 07) could beat the Nix ...

But well, let's see, what the Ferns will reach at the Cyprus Cup, now :-) Hope that I'll find a stream to watch my Ferns :-)

Marquee
3.4K
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5.2K
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over 13 years

Here are the times of there games at the Cyprus Cup, unfortunatly not NZ friendly times.

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