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Posted June 23, 2019 04:39 · last edited June 23, 2019 04:43

coochiee wrote:

[/quote]

This is the essential difference between, say Hudson's group of AWs who played Peru in 2017, and the current U20s side.

Were the NTCs established in 2011 with the Whole of Football Plan?

If so from the 13-14 players who got minutes against Peru in 2017 - Marinovic, Reid, Smith, Durante, Wood, Wee Mac and M Boxall would never have been near one. All either had their formative football education overseas or had left NZ well before 2011. And for better all worse nearly all were dominant figures in the 2017 AWs.

So it's a blatant exaggeration to say that the majority of the AWs under Hudson had come through the WoFP system.

The welcome wholesale change in style of play from "hoofball", is only now being realised from the work started 8-10 years ago.

before the WoF there had been for a number of years a move in coaching circles to more pass and move philosophies at NZF football coaching course. The WoF plan was a natural progression of what was already starting.

I remember watching Jason Hicks for example as a 13 year old playing for Albany and coached by a guy who's nickname was Becks. Jason was a lovely player to watch back then, beautiful skilss and lots of flair. That side among many played lovely football, pass and move, creative and the players were never asked to hoof it long. This was roughly back in 2002 maybe? I forget exactly but will be within a year or two of that Cameron Lindsay was at Birkenhead and I remember him as a 9 or 10 year old being coached by a guy who also pushed the technical side of things, this was maybe 2001?. A large number of players making it into the NTC equivalent trainings around this time were going to WYNRS which was pushing technical attributes very heavily and this again was maybe 1999/2000? I watched a lot of those NTC equivalent trainings and Federation trainings at this time, they would hold camps at Kings College and all of those emphasised technique, skill pass and move etc. I forget what they were called at the time. You could tell the Wynrs kids, Wynton used to piss off the powers that be by getting his kids to all show up with wynrs t shirts. I also recall Coerver getting started here and Coerver kids being present, all kids with a pass and move, dribble and turn abilities.

Again I forget the exact date but I think in 2005 Alf Galustian founder of Coerver coming to NZ and  running a Coerver coaching clinic at St Kents, if I remember right it was part of thier expansion into Australia but NZF organised this. There had been a movement towards more technical based football coaching philosophies for a few years both from local coaches, private academies and also some from NZF. I think Paul Smalley tried to do something with the Small Whites program around this time too.

The majority of those Hudson AW's had come through an overall NZ Football scene which had moved to a more technical based preference of playing style and that became formalised with the WoF plan. A large number of the training drills at Federation and NTC trainings for the youngsters that were used before the WoF plan were still used when it came in.  Weir Rosebowl coaches from roughly 2003 were asked to select players based purely on technical ability and that physical attributes were not a selection criteria. I know this because I was one of those coaches and 2 years later at a senior coaching course held at St Kents in Auckland those same ideas were all being pushed with respect to the youngsters during open discussions. The move away from hoofball in reality for the kids started sometime at the end of the 90's, the WoF plan happily made it more of a formalised recognised approach.

My frustration stems from the fact that what we tell the kids to do ends up being thrown out at senior level because the coaches are too scared to carry on that approach, mostly because they simply dont know how to coach pass and move. 

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Unknown editor edited June 23, 2019 04:43
coochiee wrote:

[/quote]

This is the essential difference between, say Hudson's group of AWs who played Peru in 2017, and the current U20s side.

Were the NTCs established in 2011 with the Whole of Football Plan?

If so from the 13-14 players who got minutes against Peru in 2017 - Marinovic, Reid, Smith, Durante, Wood, Wee Mac and M Boxall would never have been near one. All either had their formative football education overseas or had left NZ well before 2011. And for better all worse nearly all were dominant figures in the 2017 AWs.

So it's a blatant exaggeration to say that the majority of the AWs under Hudson had come through the WoFP system.

The welcome wholesale change in style of play from "hoofball", is only now being realised from the work started 8-10 years ago.

before the WoF there had been for a number of years a move in coaching circles to more pass and move philosophies at NZF football coaching course. The WoF plan was a natural progression of what was already starting.

I remember watching Jason Hicks for example as a 13 year old playing for Albany and coached by a guy who's nickname was Becks. That side among many played lovely football, pass and move, creative and the players were never asked to hoof it long. This was roughly back in 2002 maybe? I forget exactly but will be within a year or two of that Cameron Lindsay was at Birkenhead and I remember him as a 9 or 10 year old being coached by a guy who also pushed the technical side of things, this was maybe 2001?. A large number of players making it into the NTC equivalent trainings around this time were going to WYNRS which was pushing technical attributes very heavily and this again was maybe 1999/2000? I watched a lot of those NTC equivalent trainings and Federation trainings at this time, they would hold camps at Kings College and all of those emphasised technique, skill pass and move etc. I forget what they were called at the time. You could tell the Wynrs kids, Wynton used to piss off the powers that be by getting his kids to all show up with wynrs t shirts. I also recall Coerver getting started here and Coerver kids being present, all kids with a pass and move, dribble and turn abilities.

Again I forget the exact date but I think in 2005 Alf Galustian founder of Coerver coming to NZ and  running a Coerver coaching clinic at St Kents, if I remember right it was part of thier expansion into Australia but NZF organised this. There had been a movement towards more technical based football coaching philosophies for a few years both from local coaches, private academies and also some from NZF. I think Paul Smalley tried to do something with the Small Whites program around this time too.

The majority of those Hudson AW's had come through an overall NZ Football scene which had moved to a more technical based preference of playing style and that became formalised with the WoF plan. A large number of the training drills at Federation and NTC trainings for the youngsters that were used before the WoF plan were still used when it came in.  Weir Rosebowl coaches from roughly 2003 were asked to select players based purely on technical ability and that physical attributes were not a selection criteria. I know this because I was one of those coaches and 2 years later at a senior coaching course held at St Kents in Auckland those same ideas were all being pushed with respect to the youngsters during open discussions. The move away from hoofball in reality for the kids started sometime at the end of the 90's, the WoF plan happily made it more of a formalised recognised approach.

My frustration stems from the fact that what we tell the kids to do ends up being thrown out at senior level because the coaches are too scared to carry on that approach, mostly because they simply dont know how to coach pass and move. 

Unknown editor edited June 23, 2019 04:41
coochiee wrote:

[/quote]

This is the essential difference between, say Hudson's group of AWs who played Peru in 2017, and the current U20s side.

Were the NTCs established in 2011 with the Whole of Football Plan?

If so from the 13-14 players who got minutes against Peru in 2017 - Marinovic, Reid, Smith, Durante, Wood, Wee Mac and M Boxall would never have been near one. All either had their formative football education overseas or had left NZ well before 2011. And for better all worse nearly all were dominant figures in the 2017 AWs.

So it's a blatant exaggeration to say that the majority of the AWs under Hudson had come through the WoFP system.

The welcome wholesale change in style of play from "hoofball", is only now being realised from the work started 8-10 years ago.

before the WoF there had been for a number of years a move in coaching circles to more pass and move philosophies at NZF football coaching course. The WoF plan was a natural progression of what was already starting.

I remember watching Jason Hicks for example as a 13 year old playing for Albany and coached by a guy who's nickname was Becks. That side among many played lovely football, pass and move, creative and the players were never asked to hoof it long. This was roughly back in 2002 maybe? I forget exactly but will be within a year or two of that Cameron Lindsay was at Birkenhead and I remember him as a 9 or 10 year old being coached by a guy who also pushed the technical side of things, this was maybe 2001?. A large number of players making it into the NTC equivalent trainings around this time were going to WYNRS which was pushing technical attributes very heavily and this again was maybe 1999/2000? I watched a lot of those NTC equivalent trainings and Federation trainings at this time, they would hold camps at Kings College and all of those emphasised technique, skill pass and move etc. I forget what they were called at the time. You could tell the Wynrs kids, Wynton used to piss off the powers that be by getting his kids to all show up with wynrs t shirts. I also recall Coerver getting started here and Coerver kids being present, all kids with a pass and move, dribble and turn abilities.

Again I forget the exact date but I think in 2005 Alf Gulustian running a Coerver coaching clinic at St Kents. There had been a movement towards more technical based football coaching philosophies for a few years both from local coaches, private academies and also some from NZF. I think Paul Smalley tried to do something with the Small WHites program around this time too.

The majority of those Hudson AW's had come through an overall NZ Football scene which had moved to a more technical based preference of playing style and that became formalised with the WoF plan. A large number of the training drills at Federation and NTC trainings for the youngsters that were used before the WoF plan were still used when it came in.  Weir Rosebowl coaches from roughly 2003 were asked to select players based purely on technical ability and that physical attributes were not a selection criteria. I know this because I was one of those coaches and 2 years later at a senior coaching course held at St Kents in Auckland those same ideas were all being pushed with respect to the youngsters during open discussions. The move away from hoofball in reality for the kids started sometime at the end of the 90's, the WoF plan happily made it more of a formalised recognised approach.

My frustration stems from the fact that what we tell the kids to do ends up being thrown out at senior level because the coaches are too scared to carry on that approach, mostly because they simply dont know how to coach pass and move.