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New Zealand Men's U-17s

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Posted March 04, 2020 09:55 · last edited March 04, 2020 10:06

ClubOranje wrote:

martyyn wrote:

Baiter wrote:

Ridiculous that one of our key age group teams hasn't just selected the best elligible players in the age group from across the whole country for close to a decade.

Re: the bolded section... really? Some examples?

Whilst I can't speak for the last decade, are you trying to say last year's team was a selection of the best eligible players?

No, with last year's team I would agree with the suggestion that there was an oversized Wellington Phoenix Football Academy influence, at the expense of talented players from Auckland clubs and the Olé Football Academy.

But the idea that similar has happened consistently in 2017/2015/2013/2011/2009 I take issue with. Not to say there haven't been issues, but nothing as egregious as in 2019.

This is far from a perfect measure, as there's an element of survivor bias, but 32 players eligible for 2009 U-17 World Cup onwards have become All Whites and 20 of them played at U-17 World Cups. 10 of the other 12 played at an U-20 World Cup and seven of those were in the younger year of their U-17 cohort, where there's a worldwide bias against them.

Oh yeah?  Who? Verney excepted, who I rate highly.

People are under the false impression there was an "oversized Phoenix" contingent. Those boys were THERE because they were considered some of the best around they were NOT selected because they were there.

Bark and Drake weren't there until after the qualifying, which they both attended, Paulson Naiker and Old just a bit before, already in the frame, all out of Auckland BECAUSE they were considered some of the best prospects, as were Hillis and van Hattum from Nelson and Taranaki respectively.

Leaving aside Kennet, who was younger #3 GK going for the experience, that leaves 2, who were probably considered among best capital prospects along with the top Ole boys - most of which were also "Imports", there also because they are talented players.

Phoenix and Ole run professional academies and head hunt the best players and I would expect the bulk of the squad to come from there ultimately. But not every player invited made the cut, some invited but didn't accept did, as did some not even invited. 

Didn't see any of this sensationalist bollocks for girl squads that have 19/21 from Auckland, or 9/21 from Forrest Hill Milford.

I might have more to say, but I'll leave this here to start.

Best-represented cities and clubs, NZU17MNT World Cup squads

2007: Auckland 10, Western Suburbs 6
2009: Auckland 14, Central United 6
2011: Auckland 13, Asia-Pacific Football Academy 5
2013: Auckland 15, Multiple clubs 3
2015: Auckland 12, Wellington Phoenix/Olé Football Academy 4
2017: Auckland 10, Onehunga Sports 5
2019: Wellington 14, Wellington Phoenix 10

Best-represented cities and clubs, NZU17WNT World Cup squads

2008: Auckland 17, Glenfield Rovers 6
2010: Auckland 14, Metro 6
2012: Auckland 10, Coastal Spirit/Waterside Karori 4
2014: Auckland 9, Claudelands Rovers/Lynn-Avon United 3
2016: Auckland 13, Eastern Suburbs/Forrest Hill Milford 3
2018: Auckland 10, Forrest Hill Milford 4

Edit: Oh, and the example of an under-20 women's team, where an Auckland club picks up non-Aucklander adults moving to the city where the U-20 national team is trying to put a regular training programme together, is incomparable. Not that there are any "sensationalistic bollocks" anywhere here, but that's why there was no outrage about that.

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Unknown editor edited March 04, 2020 10:06
ClubOranje wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:
martyyn wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:
Baiter wrote:

Ridiculous that one of our key age group teams hasn't just selected the best elligible players in the age group from across the whole country for close to a decade.

Re: the bolded section... really? Some examples?

Whilst I can't speak for the last decade, are you trying to say last year's team was a selection of the best eligible players?

No, with last year's team I would agree with the suggestion that there was an oversized Wellington Phoenix Football Academy influence, at the expense of talented players from Auckland clubs and the Olé Football Academy.

But the idea that similar has happened consistently in 2017/2015/2013/2011/2009 I take issue with. Not to say there haven't been issues, but nothing as egregious as in 2019.

This is far from a perfect measure, as there's an element of survivor bias, but 32 players eligible for 2009 U-17 World Cup onwards have become All Whites and 20 of them played at U-17 World Cups. 10 of the other 12 played at an U-20 World Cup and seven of those were in the younger year of their U-17 cohort, where there's a worldwide bias against them.

Oh yeah?  Who? Verney excepted, who I rate highly.

People are under the false impression there was an "oversized Phoenix" contingent. Those boys were THERE because they were considered some of the best around they were NOT selected because they were there.

Bark and Drake weren't there until after the qualifying, which they both attended, Paulson Naiker and Old just a bit before, already in the frame, all out of Auckland BECAUSE they were considered some of the best prospects, as were Hillis and van Hattum from Nelson and Taranaki respectively.

Leaving aside Kennet, who was younger #3 GK going for the experience, that leaves 2, who were probably considered among best capital prospects along with the top Ole boys - most of which were also "Imports", there also because they are talented players.

Phoenix and Ole run professional academies and head hunt the best players and I would expect the bulk of the squad to come from there ultimately. But not every player invited made the cut, some invited but didn't accept did, as did some not even invited. 

Didn't see any of this sensationalist bollocks for girl squads that have 19/21 from Auckland, or 9/21 from Forrest Hill Milford.

I might have more to say, but I'll leave this here to start.

Best-represented cities and clubs, NZU17MNT World Cup squads

2007: Auckland 10, Western Suburbs 6
2009: Auckland 14, Central United 6
2011: Auckland 13, Asia-Pacific Football Academy 5
2013: Auckland 15, Multiple clubs 3
2015: Auckland 12, Wellington Phoenix/Olé Football Academy 4
2017: Auckland 10, Onehunga Sports 5
2019: Wellington 14, Wellington Phoenix 10

Best-represented cities and clubs, NZU17WNT World Cup squads

2008: Auckland 17, Glenfield Rovers 6
2010: Auckland 14, Metro 6
2012: Auckland 10, Coastal Spirit/Waterside Karori 4
2014: Auckland 9, Claudelands Rovers/Lynn-Avon United 3
2016: Auckland 13, Eastern Suburbs/Forrest Hill Milford 3
2018: Auckland 10, Forrest Hill Milford 4