New Zealand Men's U-20s

I'm just happy we are competitive... If we manage to beat the States, then I think a few players might get looked at a little closely. You don't make the quarters based on luck.

Mostly because Australian age group talent levels have regressed massively recently.  Don't even qualify for most tournaments.

I know there is a lot of chat around about lack of Aussies in top leagues compared to golden generation but I'm calling yeah, nah. It's more a case that AFC nations have progressed a lot and Aussie doesn't get the "free ride" NZ does into these Youth World Cups. From what I see in Sydney NPL I think Aussie U20 would comfortably handle our U20s. Also, global player migration in last 10+ years has had major impact on Aussie numbers in top leagues worldwide; and this will continue to be an issue for Aussie and Kiwi players without secondary (heritage) pathway into overseas leagues.

our very best players are better than anything australia has

LOL

The pay to play model is one that has/will continue to have a detrimental effect on most sports that employ it. As a father of an elite student athlete, it costs a bomb to get him into that position in the first place and then even more to keep him there. All the time I see young kids that have just as much talent as he but they will go nowhere because there is no money to get them anywhere. Sure, a very small number might attract some form of sponsorship/grant/scholarship but they are very rare opportunities. As a lot will know, selecting talent at a young age and having them come through at the other end as an elite athlete is not always a successful [pastime.

What's the answer? who knows, Does rugby have this problem in NZ? the amount of money and support available in that game in NZ means it costs very little for these kids to play the sport and I wonder how much the kids/parents have to pay when kids reach representative level. 

Getting off topic, but the key issue is massive upswing in player migration globally. There are many more players from across the globe seeking a UK/Euro gig than during Aussie golden generation times. The influx of South American and African players playing in Europe and elsewhere is far greater than it was even 10-15 years ago. Yes there have been issues with Aussie youth development - pay to play, AIS, league structures in A league environment where there are only 10 Australian clubs in top professional tier.

Getting back on topic (a bit), there really should be annual trans tasman test series at Youth level for men and women.

Close w/ Wood and Reid innit

I wouldn't "lol" Reg without careful consideration. Man knows his footy.

I'd say that our best players are better than Australias best players, but they definitely have better players in most positions and much more depth.

However, they struggle to score goals and our best two players are in the goal scoring and goal stopping roles so if we both put out our best teams I'd pick them to dominate possession but us to win it.

As much as I agree with you, it is still an opinion. :)

Undoubtedly. I'm just pointing out that it's not an opinion of a numpty and is probably worthy of a more nuanced response than "LOL".

And wait. You AGREE with me? 

A day to remember :)

I think we have some sort of chance against this USA team.

Finishing second in our group proved a bonus because France have got Italy who have looked pretty good.

This USA team doesn't look as good as the 2015 vintage we lost 4-1 to in Auckland.

Several of their top players were unavailable due to club commitments in the Bundesliga etc.

Zemalem of Arsenal is named in the US squad but isn't playing. Is he injured? He was awesome in NZ in 2015.

I love the fact that the USA team have a player on the books of Liverpool FC called Lennon.

They also have a defender called Trusty. "Auston Trusty" - classic name for a defender.

Germany have a player called Phil Ochs which resonates with those who know their sixties US folk music and Bob Dylan.

Phil Ochs was one of the big protest folk singers in Greenwich Village in the early sixties along with Dylan.

Sadly he ended his own life in the mid-seventies.

The chances of a German u-20 football team having a player called Phil Ochs would have seemed slim. 

It would be nice for USA u-20 to play Germany u-20 with Phil Ochs up against Lennon because the two were friends and performed together in the early seventies in New York.

Phil Ochs liked NZ and toured here in the early seventies on one of his few overseas tours, after touring Allende's Chile and being jailed in fascist Argentina. Neil Young, the Clash, Billy Bragg, Pearl Jam, Jello Biafra etc. covered his songs.

Zelalem is injured, did his knee against Ecuador in opening match. I also believe Carter-Vickers, Jones and Herrera are also suspended for picking up two yellow cards

Context is U20. Here is just one list - based on 2016 U19 Aussie squad.

Would beating the USA be called a upset?.

I think he's talking in the context of senior players playing in top leagues, unless I've completely got it wrong

I usually agree with sensible people. :)

Get a room willya?   Mods...

I think we have a good chance of beating the USA. Especially if we continue to progress the way we have been in this tournament. The first 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes against France was probably some of the best football i have seen from any NZ team. If they can play like that for most of the game against the USA then we are definitely in with a chance.

The big difference for me in the NZ side now is that we fielded proper ball players. Rogerson, Singh, Bevan, McGarry etc looked comfortable on the ball...... playing triangles, passing in tight positions. They were creative and backed their ability. 

Its nice to think we have some of these promising youngsters at the Nix. I sure hope that the new Nix coaches is strong on developing and promoting youth players. Because if Rogerson, Singh and McGarry can do it against a French side packed with Ligue1 players then with the right development they should be able to produce the goods in the A-League. Exciting times coming up at the Nix(maybe)

The post that he's replying to was talking about a lack of Australians playing in the top leagues, so the context is definitely senior players.

I agree, they looked excellent and we must have a reasonable chance against the US, as log as it doesn't come down to size.

Isint their manager and 3 other players suspended for the match?

The USA would be very upset.

Most football followers around the world don't rate NZ and would consider it an upset I think.

The USA beat Colombia in the round of 16 last time in NZ and only lost in the quarters to Serbia on pens.

They have some of the best young prospects in world football like Pulisic of Dortmund (luckily for us not available due to senior national team and club commitments) and Arsenal midfielder Zemalem who is out injured for the rest of the tournament,.

Luckily for us, Carter-Vickers, Jones and Herrera are suspended for picking up two yellow cards.

I just hope we're not demotivated by what happened last time against the USA, with them not being professional footballers i got some doubts. All we need to do is play like we did yesterday and we can win anything.

Yes, Jones, Hererra and Carter-Vickers Suspended and Zelalem is also injured.

If we talk senior teams, there is a conversation there for sure.

But he was replying to a post about the senior team, a conversation naturally flows beyond the initial subject.

Pretty self explanatory. Youth development opportunities. Bored with the bickering though. Let's talk about the USA game. 

Hello friends!  USA fan here.  I was last on this forum a few years back when I was cheering for you guys to knock out Mexico in the World Cup playoff.

Regarding the game this week, you guys certainly have a good chance.  As you have already discussed in this thread, we will be without three players:  Carter-Vickers, Jones, and Herrera.  Carter-Vickers (young Spurs CB) is one of our best players.  Fortunately CB is probably our deepest position.  Jones will also be a big loss.  He wasn't very highly rated by many of our fans prior to the tournament, but came in when Zelalem (Arsenal CM) was injured in the first game.  He has been excellent since, and we don't really have another player exactly like him.  Herrera, our starting RB, is also suspended, but he has been horrible, and won't be much of a loss.  Glad will likely play RB with Redding coming in for Carter-Vickers at CB.  

Three dangerous USA players to watch out for in attack:

Josh Sargent- starting striker, and leading scorer with 3 goals in the tournament. Tall ginger. At only 17 years old, he is not currently in a professional set up, but some giant European clubs are looking at him.  I think he will end up at a top German club when he turns 18.

Luca de la Torre- Fulham attacking midfielder, got some time in EFL cup this year.  Not at all a physical player, but very technically gifted.  Shifty and hard to mark.  Will occasionally roam side to side, and drop deeper to see more of the ball.  Doesn't always shine against more physical teams.

Brooks Lennon- Winger on loan to MLS from Liverpool (What a last name for a Liverpool youngster, right?)  Has received some criticism from our fans for not being the most technical player.  He is, however, very quick.  He has been very effective at beating wing backs with pace and whipping in crosses, particularly linking well with Sargent.  Has a killer mentality that reminds me of a young Landon Donovan.

We also have an 18 year old CM, Tyler Adams from New York Red Bulls, who has bossed some games in the midfield this tournament.  He really plays box-to-box, but is much less defensive than Jones, who will be missed.

Who are some danger guys to watch for you guys? Bevan, the MLS youngster, looks to have good stats but I don't know a lot about him.  Is it true that two of your top players were called to the senior team for Confed Cup?

Thanks guys, looking forward to hearing from you.

Shhhh.  Don't tell him anything.  he's a spy.

We opened the tournament by being awful vs Vietnam and playing horrendous aimless long ball football.  After that they seemed to realise that as we had footballers in the squad we should play them  Crazy I know.

Goalkeeper Michael Woud from Sunderland has been superb.  The goals he shipped vs France were astonishing finishes and he pulled off a number of good stops during the game.  

Our Centre backs are big but at times lumbering and clumsy, probably our weakest link.

Fullbacks are likely to be a couple of Phoenix youngsters in Jack-Henry Sinclair and James McGarry with Dane Ingham called into the full national squad and now in Northern Ireland.  McGarry can play anywhere on the park and many think he is somewhat wasted at left fullback/wing back.  

Centre of the park we have lost Clayton Lewis to the All Whites but Sarpreet Singh is another Phoenix player with a pile of potential.  Alongside him will be (probably) Joe Bell who is at US College but previously was with the Phoenix and Moses Dyer who already has a pile of national team caps for some reason.

Up front Bevan is the main threat, he's likely to be partnered by either Noah Billingsley (go Gauchos) or Logan Rogerson.  Billingslley is a bit like Bevan, biggish and quick.  Rogerson is more ball at his feet and pace and guile but is prone to being selfish and not looking up.  Probably has not become the player he threatened to become at U-17 level.

Honourable mention to Conner Probert as well who at U17s looked excellent but has struggled to get much game time in this squad.

In summary - I suspect Woud will be busy for us but our strength is a midfield who are very happy on the ball and Bevan up front.  If we don't revert to type and gain some possession for our midfielders and Bevan we should be able to make a decent game of it.

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own and in no way reflect the views of all NZ Football followers.

Pretty much perfect, except you failed to emphasise the sheer ability of Moses Dyer

Billingsley is quick... he's just a donkey to boot with no touch!

Wrong again News. They reflect my views exactly.

I'm not sure about this. Although I've only watched the France match.

Woud had a bunch of shots fired straight at him which he knocked away okay. And he saved one with his shin after diving the wrong way. 

So that looked okay. But wasn't especially impressive.

On the flip side. The first goal he got two hands to but still palmed into his side netting. The second goal he got chipped from the sideline.

Are we perhaps falling into the trap of mixing up "had lots of work to do" with "made some fine saves"?

Has he been especially good in other matches?