New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites

This just exacerbates the clusterfuck that was the Oceania Nations Cup. That's when we should have been getting tough about him being available, not now. The fact that he was "rested" for the ONC so that he would be available for the Olympics now looks like a bad case of mis-management and poor communication.

 

Unfortunately even the compulsory release of the u-23 players is only a new eventuality as of a late March decision by The FIFA Executive Committee, but as Hard News says this doesn't apply to the over-age players:

http://www.mail.com/int/sports/soccer/1177862-fifa-insists-enforce-olympic-release-rule.html

Compilation of relevant news articles and FIFA statutes here:

http://www.google.co.nz/webhp?sourceid=toolbar-instant&hl=en&ion=1&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4GGHP_enNZ433NZ433#q=fifa+olympic+football+player+release+rules&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4GGHP_enNZ433NZ433&prmd=imvns&ei=eg3hT_X7JuiaiQea1OSiDw&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=f16e275ddabd83c&biw=1366&bih=580&ion=1

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OVER-AGE PLAYER TO REPLACE REID?

Only candidates really are McGlinchey, Brockie, Fallon, Killen, Keat, Clapham, Vicelich and Sigmund.

If they're sticking with Smeltz and Nelsen, then I'd take either Keat or McGlinchey as our midfield is a weakness (apart from Rojas).

One experienced centreback in Nelsen is enough, so no need for Siggie. Vicelich has experience to offer as a defensive midfielder but I'd rather go with a younger player with future potential like McGlinchey or Keat. Kosta, Smeltz and Wood are adequate for strikers.

Keat is shaping up as a possible senior AW midfielder for the future and I disagree with comments posted criticizing the level he's playing at with LA Galaxy (it's true he doesn't appear much in the first team though). According to Ryan Nelsen (who should know) the best MLS sides are roughly equivalent to top-half of the Championship in England; according to Paul Ifil, the best A-League clubs are roughly bottom-half Championship (and were League One standard when he arrived). If  Keat was with one of the better Championship side slike Birmingham, Blackpool or Leeds people would rate him more, even if not appearing regularly. Yet, he's playing at about that level (team-mates like Keane, Beckham and Donovan would be snapped up by any Championship side if they could afford them...)

We have enough at the back without him. Good chance to blood some new defenders. Where we need someone is in the mid. Keat or Mac

Yeah, I never quite understood NZF's infatuation with Olympic football. I mean, it was more palatable in 2008 because of the situation then, but now it's just downright silly.

Interesting... Where does that leave the SPL? Is the A-league that much better than SPL? Karl Arnason just left Aberdeen for Rotherham, who are something like 27th tier English, yet Ifil reckons A-league = Championship! That makes the ASB Premiership roughly equivalent to the English Premiership.

Why would we need Keat or Mac when we have McGeorge?

(If Lindsay and Rowe don't make the squad I'll, I'll, I'll... be quite annoyed)

Team Wellington maybe, but they way that walked all over City this season, City probably more League 2.

Ha,well played. 

Interesting concept of 'walked all over'... And remind me of the silverware TW won this year? Oh yes... The White Ribbon Cup... The competition made up for teams so they don't feel bad about not being good enough for the O-league.

The concept of a completely amateur league,having better players than a professional one is an interesting one. 

Youd think if they were good enough it'd be preferable to get paid to play football. 

Actually Keat seems a little doubtful for the Olympics anyway due to injury - he's just had knee surgery and is supposed to be out roughly until between the end of this month and mid-July. Naming him in the squad would be too much of a risk I think:

http://www.lagalaxy.com/news/2012/06/edson-buddle-and-dan-keat-undergo-successful-knee-surgery-leonardo-undergoes-mri

 

CARSON, Calif. (Tuesday, June 5, 2012) – LA Galaxy forward Edson Buddle and midfielder Dan Keat have each undergone successful right knee surgeries and are expected to miss the next 3-6 weeks. Monday, Buddle underwent a meniscectomy on his right knee to repair damage done to his meniscus. Keat underwent the same procedure, also on his right knee, on Thursday, May 31. Both procedures were performed by Galaxy Club Physician, Dr. Bert Mandelbaum, in Santa Monica, Calif.

Keat has played in two games for the Galaxy this season, starting and playing the full 90 minutes in the 1-1 draw at Montreal on May 12 for his only league appearance of the season while also coming on in the second half of the second leg of LA’s CONCACAF Champions League Quarterfinal against Toronto FC on March 14.

So many players in NZ could be doing just this, there are many pro leagues all around the world, 2nd tier, 3rd tier, whatever... where kiwis could be playing professionally, they just dont for whatever reason. Id play in some shitty Qatari 3rd division or something if I could, wouldnt bother me even if i was only earning Pak'n Save wages

Squad announced tomorrow at 3pm

18 man squad

McGlinchey in. Good choice

With Reid out and McGlinchey in I hope this means we won't play 3-4-3 now. Although I suspect we will

Yeah i personally think it should be wood starting every game, and dont think Smeltz is neccessary. Unless we are to play a front 2?

Hope we dont play 343

 

Nearly time to take your annoyed pills

My Guess

Gleeson, O Keefe

Thomas, Myers, Mussa, Nelson, Smith, Hogg

Rojas Feneridas, McGeorge, McGlinchey, Howieson, Payne, Barbarouses

Wood, Smeltz, Draper

Very Close

 

Goalkeepers: Jake Gleeson, Michael O'Keeffe.

Defenders: Ian Hogg, Tim Myers, Tommy Smith, Ryan Nelsen*, Adam Thomas, James Musa

Midfielders: Tim Payne, Michael McGlinchey*, Alex Feneridis, Cameron Howieson, Adam McGeorge.

Forwards: Kosta Barbarouses, Shane Smeltz*, Chris Wood, Marco Rojas, Dakota Lucas.

* selected as one of three over 23-aged players.

Standby: Michael Eagar, Cameron Lindsay, Luke Rowe, Scott Basalaj.

Yuk dont like that squad. Dakota Lucas making it in surprises me.

Gotta feel for Eages & Draper who played big parts in qualifying. Sucks we cant have a 23 man squad.

 

Wonder if McGlinchey pushed out Lindsay?

For me Lindsay would have made it ahead of Feneridis or even McGeorge and Eager ahead of Thomas or Musa, but it's close to the side I expected to see if not quite the one I hoped I would see.

Hogg vs Rowe is a pretty tough call to make so I won't protest that one.

Top squad - McGlinchey possibly better choice than Reid anyway, whether or not he was available. I reckon if it was a physical possibility for this team to play the actual All White then these guys might teach them a footballing lesson.

Lindsay.... So as a guy that Herbert intimates is not far off being a regular match day player, he has been overlooked for some amateur players.

Either Emblem doesn't rate him (then what does Ricki see in him) or he is poo, or our ASB players are not so poo. Either way its hardly a glowing endorsement for the lad..

 

My exact sentiments. I really cant see how Eager got cut. And he deserves to be there

 

Emblen is in a much better position to evaluate the ASB premiership players - surely Herbert doesn't have the time what with the All Whites and the Phoenix so he sticks to what he knows ie Phoenix players.

Problem is he`s a player who doesn`t play.....Comes with a reputation but really hasn`t had the chance for many to gauge his ability.

In reality best for the Nix that he is not going so he is involved in a full pre-season with potential game time

I watched him play twice last season and in both game he was better than McGeorge or Feneridis were in the two games (Possibly four) I watched them in.

shame about draper. id prefer him over lucas from what ive seen

am slightly confused though i thought adam thomas was a defensive midfielder. so where does he play in the defence? was eager/musa the CB pairing in the tournament prior to this?

feneridis hmm. theres always one. cameron lindsay definitely unlucky

 

 

Adam Thomas played Right Back at Taupo.....Could be a Nix U21 trial

From the NZ Football website:

 

  New Zealand U23 v Belarus (Olympics) Coventry, England

2012 London Olympcs
26 July -11 August 2012; 
Great Britain

Group C
Brazil
Egypt
Belarus
New Zealand

New Zealand v Belarus
July 26th, 7.45pm (6.45am, July 27 NZT)
City of Coventry Stadium, Coventry, England

New Zealand v Egypt
July 29th, 2.45pm (1.45am, July 30 NZT)
Old Trafford, Manchester, England

New Zealand v Brazil
August 1st, 2.30pm (1.30am, August 2 NZT)
Old Trafford, Manchester, England

Any idea if these will be on free to air, dodgy interweb, or just through pay tv (sky)?

Ditto for the Ferns games.

 

I can't believe that Stefan is not there. What has this o'keefe ever done? And judging by how poor gleeson was for the all whites he needs a challenge

Apart from the call-up to the full squad earlier this month?

The Lindsay omission is just like the Chettleburgh thing all over again...

Is it nz football politics and personality clashes? i guess Chris James goes it that category too, but perhaps he brought it on himself a little bit with some bad attitude(from the grapevine)

 

of course it would be close, but a footballing lesson? half of the team would be the same. and having a handful of extra amatuers vs the additional "Pros" in the all whites  wouldnt make much difference. Sadly, we saw that in the oceania nations cup.

Didn't Emblen play 4 4 2 in the Olympic qualifiers in Taupo? He seems to be more of an English traditionalist. Agree with what he says about rationale for his over-age player choices:

 

"I feel this is Michael's chance to really kick on...

He's coming off the back of another very good A-League season and Asian Champions League campaign and it gives us that spine of the team with Nelsen, McGlinchey and Smeltz at centre back, centre midfield and centre forward.

We have a senior player in every third of the pitch."

The full Olympic squad will be named at 3pm today and Emblen said Jake Gleeson remained his likely choice in goal.

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I hope Stefan Marinovic makes the cut in goal, as he impressed me in last year's U-20 World Cup in Colombia.

Marinovic gained a permanent place in SV Wiesbaden's first team squad the season just past, promoted from the second (u-23) team. He had previously played for the first team in the 3 Bundesliga twice in 2010 as an 18 year-old when all first team keepers were injured. Wiesbaden are one of the bigger clubs in the new German nationwide Third Div. which replaced the regional leagues a couple of years ago. They were a Second Div.club in 2009.

Oh well, roll on the squad announcement at 3pm...just hope NZ Football have improved their scouting of age-group players, as it's always been a weak point. As a South Island-based follower of NZ teams since about 1980, we're only too aware of this failing to adequately scout even NZ-based players, what to speak of overseas-based ones.

Interesting historical example: a player who would figure in any "best All White squad of all time," Mike McGarry, was never selected for any NZ age group side. He was scouted by Newcastle United in England's top flight and played in their youth team for a season in 1983 alongside Paul Gascoigne. (McGarry apparently was offered a full contract by Newcastle ahead of Gascoigne but famously walked out on them, disgusted by the shambles the club was at the time with its sadistic youth coach and drinking culture.) McGarry made his full senior debut aged 21 in 1986, yet never played at age group level despite only being unavailable for one year perhaps whilst at Newcastle Utd...

NZ have never seen fit to spend money on sending coaching staff overseas to watch prospective senior or age group players. They've usually relied on phoning coaches of NZ players based overseas for their opinion, on media reports etc. but that's not adequate. I chatted with then All Whites coach Irishman Joe McGrath whilst he was watching a game in Christchurch in 1997, scouting players for the up-coming Oceania World Cup qualifiers. It was astounding that he had never heard of many players such as Fred de Jong who had played 53 games in the Dutch First Div. for Fortuna Sittard in the early 90's and had returned to NZ to play for Central at the end of 1994 (still aged only 33 in 1997 and playing regularly for Central). This was, as Joe lamented to me, because there was no scouting system for NZ national teams as Joe was used to in Ireland and he had to rely solely on watching players himself playing in NZ. With no national association scouting apparatus, Joe was never provided with any reliable up-to-date info on prospective All White players and he had no ability to watch Kiwis playing overseas or have his staff do so. Little wonder the two foreign AW's coaches brought in by Soccer NZ in the mid-90's lasted only one year each before resigning.

Interesting even the Aussie women's Olympic football team budget is such they sent their coach to Auckland this week to watch the Football Ferns play China - they even scout teams (NZ) they are about to play in friendlies !!!

 

The way I see it is Cameron Lindsay will become a very good player. Ricki Herbert knows that. But right now, he's still very young. He's under 20 isn't he? In an Under-23 squad.