New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites · Yellow Fever Ngā Wana Kōwhai

2ndBest

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Appiah without the pace

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about 17 years

zinidane wrote:

I still would argue strongly that the Nix have not appointed the best person for the assistant coaches job. (2nd best Advertising the job would probably been a legal requirement under employment law). I am sure that if they had wanted someone of the calibre of Emblen or Trani then something could have been worked out. Trani had been on the outer at Adelaide for some time and it was obvious that he was going to be demoted sooner or later. I'm sure Emblen, knowing that there were difficulties at Waitak, would have jumped at a full time assistant/academy coach job at the Nix. Especially if he knew that the head coach job was a possibility when Ricki stood down. He could have reduced his AW role until later in his career.

What really bugs me is the "jobs for the boys " nature of this. We have given an important full time coaching position to a complete novice while an excellent local coach with 3 national titles and extensive knowledge of the local game is left coaching 5 year olds.

1) There is no law to say that jobs must be advertised.

2) your 'jobs for the boys' argument is ridiculous. Emblen is an assistant for the AWs so you'd think Ricki likes him. Trani has been his assistant too. Surely they are just as much as one of Ricki's boys as Greenacre.

3) The reason Trani left was to be close to his ill father. I assume that is still the case.

4) Do you even know of those two applied?

5) How do you know Trani was on the outer?

6) When exactly did the Emblen/Waitak issue blow up?

7) That will do for now.

August 04, 2012 22:29 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

terminator_x

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Still Believin'

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Well said 2nd Best.

What exactly is the justification for all this sudden Emblen love anyway?

Sure, he has been succesful in the ASB Prem and the Oly-Whites played some good stuff at the Olympics.

But the bottom line is they drew one game and didn't make the knock-out stages. If it had been Ricki Herbert in charge you can bet there would be people on here calling for him to be sacked because "results matter".

Let's also not forget the Oceania qualifying tournament as recently as March this year. That was hardly a convincing campaign, especially considering we had home advantage. I don't remember anyone suggesting the Nix should snap up Emblen at that point.

Ricki Herbert was also with the Olympic team as technical advisor. If he had anything to do with the team's performance doesn't he get some credit too? And if he was just in the background letting Emblen get on with it then why the howls of protest on here about him having that role in the first place?

Don't get me wrong, Emblen did a good job at the Olympics and he is clearly a good coaching prospect for the future. But jumping from there to the conclusion that he would be a superior assistant coach for the Phoenix than Chris Greenacre (a guy that the Phoenix know inside out and vice versa) is just silly.

August 04, 2012 23:35 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

terminator_x

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Still Believin'

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By the way Zinidane, "jobs for the boys" is how it works in football all around the world.

Head coaches and managers routinely take their favourite assistants to new clubs, or appoint players they get on with into coaching or technical roles. That's how Simon Elliott got his current gig at Chivas for instance.

And no, there is no legal requirement in NZ to advertise a position. In fact, many work places (like mine) have policies that say jobs must be advertised internally first and will only be advertised externally if a suitable internal candidate cannot be found.

August 04, 2012 23:44 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

2ndBest

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Appiah without the pace

6.8K

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19K

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about 17 years

Some other's might point out his O-league campaigns.

2011/12

Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts

Tefana 6 4 1 1 15 12 +3 13

Waitakere United 6 4 0 2 21 6 +15 12

Ba 6 3 0 3 7 16 −9 9

Mont-Dore 6 0 1 5 2 11 −9 1

2010/11

Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts

Auckland City 6 4 2 0 12 2 +10 14

Waitakere United 6 2 2 2 8 8 0 8

Magenta 6 2 1 3 6 7 −1 7

Tefana 6 1 1 4 5 14 −9 4

2009/10

Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts

Waitakere United 6 3 3 0 15 6 +9 12

Auckland City 6 3 3 0 13 5 +8 12

Magenta 6 1 3 2 13 10 +3 6

Manu-Ura 6 0 1 5 3 23 −20 1 OFC Champions League
2009–10 winners

PRK Hekari United

August 04, 2012 23:46 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

General Dread

Trialist

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18

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about 12 years

Maybe the Olywhites weren't that bad in the warm-up games, maybe Japan and Korea were just really quite good. After all they have both made the semis and played some pretty good football.

August 05, 2012 16:16 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Marius Lacatus

Starting XI

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over 17 years

They are both great sides, which was obvious when we played them, the Japanese in particular

August 05, 2012 20:08 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

zinidane

First Team Squad

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1.7K

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about 16 years

Ok we will have to disagree on this.

I will never be convinced that Greenacre was the absolute best person that the Nix could have recruited to the job. So far the only arguements that I have heard in his favour are that the club knows him "inside out" and he has done his FIFA courses.

If people think this overrides other coaches who have extensive coaching experiance and have worked in age group coaching then you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

August 05, 2012 22:19 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

2ndBest

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Appiah without the pace

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about 17 years

When I applied for my current job, was I the best person for the role? Definately not. But was I the best person who applied. Yes. See the difference?

I'm still interested in you addressing the questions I raised.

August 05, 2012 22:51 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Blew.2

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Marquee

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about 13 years

I think in my drunk state( understandable) he is a go getter coach. When at one down did you see a NZ coach drag a defender and put on an attaching player. A small lose is still a loose. F...k English is to hard

August 05, 2012 23:12 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Big Pete 65

Starting XI

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about 16 years

How do people rate our players over the tournament? I find it impossible to give ratings out of ten because we were outplayed so much and it can only be relative to our team's limitations.

Thought Nelsen was the only one to suggest Premier League level - Of the u-23 players:

Chris Wood may be under contract to a Premier League club, but his play indicated a future career in the Championship at best.

Tommy Smith: Chamionship level; Kosta: did well at times and industrious but may struggle to shine at level of Greek Super League (Panathinaikos are on the verge of bankruptcy, so he may get a run due to selling their other players); Marco: UK or Euro lower leagues; Tim Payne: showed he could establish himself at Blackburn in Championship; Hogg: UK lower leagues; Thomas: third/fourth or fifth tier English footie; Michael O'Keeffe: needs to leave Fairfield University a soon as possible and either sign for a better US soccer college (as Ryan did when he transferred to Stanford) or pick up a club in MLS or UK/Europe. Showed enough to maybe have already attracted the attention of a UK/Euro club...

As far as the team performance, although it's true they tried to play positive possession football, often they looked inept and passed the ball directly to oppositon players and overall posed few threats to goal.

Having gone back and watched bits of the three games again, looks worse on second viewing, even against Belarus, who deserved their win on the balance of play (especially dominant in the second half). We were very lucky to get a draw v Egypt who were much better than us in most aspects and we posed them few threats, most of our passes going astray and shots on goal few. Actually, some of our best attacking play was against Brazil, probably because they were down to ten men for much of the game.

My team rating: v Belarus 4/10; v Egypt: 4/10; v Brazil: 4/10

August 06, 2012 15:26 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Ray Hicks

Phoenix Academy

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250

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over 12 years

I agree with your assessment of Chris Wood: he may be big and strong, but I think he's a bit of a statue mobility wise, and doesn't appear to have the required pace to be a Premiership player. Should have a decent career at championship level though.

August 06, 2012 15:58 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

N-Bomb

Starting XI

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3.1K

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about 14 years

Very difficult to tell how good of a coach Emblen is, when your team is basically secured of a top two spot every year it's hard to say how much impact the coach has. One thing I wonder about though is the number of English guys getting big time jobs, not saying they don't deserve it, just seems strange that guys like Emblen and Greenie etc have got very fast promotions, maybe we feel indebted to them for coming over or believe being English gives you some extra credentials.

Of course, maybe I'm overthinking this and they are just the best men for the job

August 06, 2012 17:39 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

james dean

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Marquee

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over 17 years

So much to like about the team - a lot of those guys played a lot better for Emblen than the have for the AWs and in the Solomons. However, I think he was a little lucky too. Sub Winston Reed in at RB (assuming he wouldn't drop Smith) and exchange Wee mac out of the midfield and we could have looked a very different side, so a difficult decision which he probably (with hindsight) got wrong the first time around. Which could be considered a black mark.

Calmness at the back and a real desire to maintain possession which has been lacking at other international tournaments. If a guy like Nelsen rates him surely that says something?

August 07, 2012 09:41 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Hard News

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Early retirement

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34K

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over 17 years

I don't think anyone has an issue with him. I've spoken to him a few times and he's a really good guy, and he's proving to be a good coach.

My issue is with people that are using it as a stick to beat Greenacre with when it ignores a large pile of evidence and circumstances around timing, experience and goals in football that mean the right decision was made for the Phoenix at the time it needed to be made.

I wouldn't rule out an Emblen involvement in addition to Greenacre at some point but the assertion that because we (in short patches) played good football at the Olympic means we should have signed Emblen is fundamentally flawed unless someone can see the future.

August 07, 2012 10:02 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

james dean

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Marquee

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over 17 years

2nd best and TX - it's so obvious which side you're going to come out on every argument. You just tow the party line and it's very boring.

Jobs for the boys is a good thing, continuity is a good thing, I just have a concern that Ricky moving upstairs (assumption) then we either have a very green Greenacre taking over or we go outside the organisation. Not sure either is particularly desirable on the assumption that whomever takes over would ideally have knowledge of the organisation and local playing stocks etc.

Not sure Emblen is the answer here either by the way - I just think he's done a really good job with this team and he needs greater exposure, either with the Phoenix or within NZF.

August 08, 2012 06:39 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

2ndBest

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Appiah without the pace

6.8K

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19K

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about 17 years

I certainly don't always come out on the same argument. There are a number of things that I stated that I think NZF or the Phoenix or Ricki or others have done wrong.

I just try to provide some balance to those who refuse to acknowledge the context that NZF and the Phoenix work in. And that few of us have full information on whatever we are talking about.

August 08, 2012 08:21 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

terminator_x

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Still Believin'

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over 17 years

james dean wrote:

2nd best and TX - it's so obvious which side you're going to come out on every argument. You just tow the party line and it's very boring.

Hey!, you don't have a monopoly on being a boring, self-opinionated twat.

At least I have some self-awareness

(please note clever use of winky emoticon further emphasising amount of self-awareness)

Anyway, agree with what you say re: Emblen. Seems like a good prospect, needs more exposure.

August 08, 2012 09:45 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

aitkenmike

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Marquee

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over 17 years

terminator_x wrote:

james dean wrote:

2nd best and TX - it's so obvious which side you're going to come out on every argument. You just tow the party line and it's very boring.

Hey!, you don't have a monopoly on being a boring, self-opinionated twat.

At least I have some self-awareness

(please note clever use of winky emoticon further emphasising amount of self-awareness)

Anyway, agree with what you say re: Emblen. Seems like a good prospect, needs more exposure.

But not to much exposure right T-x? We have tried that before and it didn't end to well. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/4897415/Pestered-coach-sent-woman-explicit-photo

August 08, 2012 10:59 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

terminator_x

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Still Believin'

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over 17 years

Steve Cain?

He's someone else Zinidane probably thinks should have got the Nix job ahead of Greenacre

(that's a winky-cheeky-devil triple emoticon combo to fully emphasise that I am just taking the piss).

August 08, 2012 12:25 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Junior82

Legend

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22K

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almost 16 years

Thank goodness for these drupal emoticons.

August 08, 2012 12:33 · Edited September 09, 2012 18:22

Big Pete 65

Starting XI

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about 16 years

Format for OFC Men's Olympic Qualifying Under Discussion:

http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/News/ViewArticl...

"The OFC Executive Committee, meeting in Auckland on Saturday, confirmed it will investigate the concept of the men’s OFC Olympic Qualifying Tournament being absorbed into next August's 2015 Pacific Games Men's Football tournament in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea.

The tournament was originally scheduled as a stand-alone tournament in Tonga in December 2015.

The new approach could see the New Zealand U-23 Men's team participate in the Pacific Games Men's Football tournament for the first time. Historically, Australian and New Zealand multisport teams and athletes have not participated in the Pacific Games but the executive expressed its support for a more rounded representation of pacific nations at the next edition."

October 23, 2014 13:21

Marto

Marquee

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over 17 years

more games for the boys... I'm behind that even if it results in a Honiara situation pitch/scheduling wise.

October 30, 2014 09:44 · Edited October 30, 2014 11:17

Global Game

Marquee

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almost 14 years

Hudson's 15 minute interview this week was instructive. The U23s has assumed much more importance as he searches for time with the players with a view to Russia qualification. The Olympic qualifying rounds and tournament itself provide good amounts of training in camp and tournament game time - for those players released by clubs.

For Brazil Olympics, eligible players would need to be born 1993 or later. Unless selected as an overage player only Tim Payne, Cam Howieson and Scott Basalaj would be eligible from the last squad that went to London under Emblem.

There will no doubt be some from the 2015 U20 squad, plus all those from the 2013 U20 squad (below) are still eligible.

Scott Basalaj 94
Max Crocrombe 93
Daniel Clarke 94
Storm Roux 93
Bill Tuiloma 95
Simon Arms 93
Luke Adams 94
Alec Solomons 93
Liam Higgins 93
Tom Biss 93
Cam Howieson 94
Tim Payne 94
Jesse Edge 95
Justin Gulley 93
Rhys Jordan 94
Hamish Watson 93
Tyler Boyd 94
Louis Fenton 93
Jonny Young 94
Van Elia 93
Ryan Thomas 94
Dale Higham 93

I imagine there a a few flying under the radar - US College perhaps or those playing overseas who miss NZ age rep team; but you would hope they've been flushed out into a NZF database now.

March 06, 2015 10:23

Jerzy Merino

Marquee

970

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6.5K

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almost 12 years

Chris Wood (born Dec 1991) would be good as one of the overage players.

March 06, 2015 10:29

Jeff Vader

Cock

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16K

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about 15 years

I guess when you look at his philosophy, it does stack up cause in 3 years times, those guys will be around the 25/26 age and should at the very least be in that frame for Russia. Focus on them now rather than letting then rise naturally.

I guess when you look at those names, its not looking as flash as I thought we had in terms of a base but I guess when you throw in Wood, McGlinchey, Kosta, Marco, Reid, Smith, Moss - the names not mentioned above, there are about 15-16 names that would make an AW squad of 23 straight off the bat.

March 06, 2015 10:31

Jerzy Merino

Marquee

970

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6.5K

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almost 12 years

Big Pete 65 wrote:

Format for OFC Men's Olympic Qualifying Under Discussion:

http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/News/ViewArticl...

"The OFC Executive Committee, meeting in Auckland on Saturday, confirmed it will investigate the concept of the men’s OFC Olympic Qualifying Tournament being absorbed into next August's 2015 Pacific Games Men's Football tournament in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea.

The tournament was originally scheduled as a stand-alone tournament in Tonga in December 2015.

The new approach could see the New Zealand U-23 Men's team participate in the Pacific Games Men's Football tournament for the first time. Historically, Australian and New Zealand multisport teams and athletes have not participated in the Pacific Games but the executive expressed its support for a more rounded representation of pacific nations at the next edition."

Just 2 months after World Cup Under 20's. Gives our kids an even greater incentive to show up.

March 06, 2015 10:38

Bullion

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Marquee

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about 17 years

Global Game wrote:

Hudson's 15 minute interview this week was instructive. The U23s has assumed much more importance as he searches for time with the players with a view to Russia qualification. The Olympic qualifying rounds and tournament itself provide good amounts of training in camp and tournament game time - for those players released by clubs.

For Brazil Olympics, eligible players would need to be born 1993 or later. Unless selected as an overage player only Tim Payne, Cam Howieson and Scott Basalaj would be eligible from the last squad that went to London under Emblem.

There will no doubt be some from the 2015 U20 squad, plus all those from the 2013 U20 squad (below) are still eligible.

Scott Basalaj 94
Max Crocrombe 93
Daniel Clarke 94
Storm Roux 93
Bill Tuiloma 95
Simon Arms 93
Luke Adams 94
Alec Solomons 93
Liam Higgins 93
Tom Biss 93
Cam Howieson 94
Tim Payne 94
Jesse Edge 95
Justin Gulley 93
Rhys Jordan 94
Hamish Watson 93
Tyler Boyd 94
Louis Fenton 93
Jonny Young 94
Van Elia 93
Ryan Thomas 94
Dale Higham 93

I imagine there a a few flying under the radar - US College perhaps or those playing overseas who miss NZ age rep team; but you would hope they've been flushed out into a NZF database now.

+ recent AW call ups:

Joel Stevens

Deklan Wynne

Jesse Edge

Oliver Sail

Matt Ridenton

Adam Mitchell

March 06, 2015 10:45

Argie-

WeeNix

230

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620

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over 9 years

The Oly Whites inclusion in the Pacific Games is confirmed? The OFC was "investigating" making it an U-23 tournament but no news have been released so far

March 06, 2015 11:09

Aza

First Team Squad

110

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1K

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over 10 years

Sam Burfoot

Cory Mitchell

Fabrizio Tavano?

March 06, 2015 13:57

Big Pete 65

Starting XI

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4.9K

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about 16 years

Argie96 wrote:

The Oly Whites inclusion in the Pacific Games is confirmed? The OFC was "investigating" making it an U-23 tournament but no news have been released so far

Seems OFC approved in January making the Pacific Games football tournament in PNG the qualifying tournament for the Olympics with NZ u-23 etc. competing and this was ratified in early February by the Pacific Games organizers:

http://www.pina.com.fj/?p=pacnews&m=read&o=1368440...

http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=295236

"At its meeting in Nuku'alofa, the PGC Executive Board also reviewed preparations for the Port Moresby 2015 Pacific Games," Minogue said.

"This included endorsement of a proposal from the Oceania Football Confederation for Men's Football to include qualification for the Rio 2016 Olympic Games, subject to certain conditions being met around the participation of New Zealand and the capacity of teams to field a full squad of players aged under 23."

And now since the Pacific Games is an Olympic qualifier for Oceania, the Pacific Games football tournament will include New Zealand as well.

According to Minogue New Zealand cannot win a Pacific Games medal.

Minogue also confirmed that OFC will now work out a format where the Pacific Games medal contentions is limited to the traditional countries of the Pacific."

http://www.pina.com.fj/index.php?p=pacnews&m=read&...

"The Pacific Games soccer will be used as the Olympic qualifier with New Zealand also taking part including Oceania Football Confederation (OFC) members. There are about 14 OFC member countries."

Will be interesting with Ricki Herbert coaching the PNG side.

March 09, 2015 01:33