The starting eleven for the next two games will likely have 7 under 23 eligible players, coupled with 3 overage and then the Marko’s of this world, what else do you want?
I said what I wanted, which was for the All Whites to have played friendlies against decent opposition instead of playing the Nations Cup. Bit of a pointless comment, crying over spilt milk.
Now to be fair we're playing against decent opposition much more often than in the past.
We only have to play the OFC nations a short number of times in a 4-year cycle, and the Nations Cup is just one tournament window.
I'm sure these games are good preparation for the boys ahead of WCQs against similar teams, and also blooding some promising U23 players in the team ahead of the Olympics and their future AWs careers. Confidence and the experience will be valuable - unless we think the All Whites should only play top 60 and 70 teams which means not much scoring and not much winning.
A better performance than game 1, felt like the team's getting more used to the hot and humid conditions and although they dropped off late in the game a bit, it was a lot less than against the Solomon Islands.
Would like Fiji in the final (yes making assumptions on the semi final result)
Also I'm surprised the Rufer doesn't seem to be in the conversation for captaincy or vice captaincy roles within this squad. He looks like a leader amongst these guys to me, even the way he congratulated Elijah Just on his goal felt like a Captain to me
Probably as simple as he might not make a full strength AWs squad with the depth in his position. They might want to develop the leadership qualities of mainstays like Libby
PNG beat Samoa 2-1, and go level on points with Tahiti (GD +2). But PNG (GD -3) need Fiji to beat the Tahitians by 5 goals, to finish 2nd (play NZ in semis).
Expect the Tahitians to park the bus this afternoon in Fiji. Good practice for playing the AWs next Thursday. Being super defensive & well organised almost worked for them against the AWs at Qatar OFC tourney in 2022. Took a late Cacace strike for NZ to win 1-0.
he should though - he is one of our best 2 #6s. Stamenic & Garbett are 8s. Dibley-Dias won't commit his international future to us any time soon.
I think the captaincy is clearly decided on seniority in appearances & in how likely they are to start. Rufer hasn't made many All Whites appearances, nowhere near the likes of Cacace, Kosta, Smith, Boxall etcBrockieTheGOAT
Probably as simple as he might not make a full strength AWs squad with the depth in his position. They might want to develop the leadership qualities of mainstays like Libby
Watching the Fiji v Tahiti game, very impressed with the Fijian #21 in the centre of their defence. Apparently he’s under 20. I hope he gets a trial somewhere.
Watching some of the 2nd half Fiji verus Tahiti. Fiji up 1-0 (Krishna pen). Only watched 10 mins, and the pitch looks a bit bumpy, but it's very dire. Neither team getting more than 3-4 passes together before just hoofing it forward, or a miracle low % pass tried. There has been at least one corner from each team not enter the field of play.
Really I think it's a total myth the Island teams are improving. Unless I'm missing some Tahiti or New Caledonia guys in France, over all the non NZ OFC teams you still have Kaltak and Krishna as the most high profile players. Le'ai who seems to have been promising for years is to play lowly NPL in South Australia.
The OFC WC qualifiers will be played predominantly in NZ later this year (Oct-Nov windows). I can see a full strength AW team in home conditions hitting double figures against some of these teams.
And really I don't see much changing in the future. Apart from PNG all the Island nations have small populations. Football ain't the main code in Fiji, Samoa & Tonga. Probably ain't in PNG (league). And despite no doubt a tonne of FIFA money coming in, they are poor and still lacking top facilities & quality coaching. Though yeah there has been a new Academy opened (with some Japanese money) in Honiara the last 12 months.
Edit - of course the OFC commentator is talking it up, but I remember the same guy calling the Women's Olympics qualifying final earlier this year. Ferns were up 4-0 or 5-0 nil at HT verus Solomons and he was saying something like SI needed to score next to have hope of a comeback blah blah blah. When it was blind Freddy obvious they were out classed and the only thing to discuss was the final Ferns winning margin.
Edit 2 - Fiji win 1-0. AWs to play Tahiti next Thursday in their semi.
Watching some of the 2nd half Fiji verus Tahiti. Fiji up 1-0 (Krishna pen). Only watched 10 mins, and the pitch looks a bit bumpy, but it's very dire. Neither team getting more than 3-4 passes together before just hoofing it forward, or a miracle low % pass tried. There has been at least one corner from each team not enter the field of play.
Really I think it's a total myth the Island teams are improving. Unless I'm missing some Tahiti or New Caledonia guys in France, over all the non NZ OFC teams you still have Kaltak and Krishna as the most high profile players. Le'ai who seems to have been promising for years is to play lowly NPL in South Australia.
The OFC WC qualifiers will be played predominantly in NZ later this year (Oct-Nov windows). I can see a full strength AW team in home conditions hitting double figures against some of these teams.
And really I don't see much changing in the future. Apart from PNG all the Island nations have small populations. Football ain't the main code in Fiji, Samoa & Tonga. Probably ain't in PNG (league). And despite no doubt a tonne of FIFA money coming in, they are poor and still lacking top facilities & quality coaching. Though yeah there has been a new Academy opened (with some Japanese money) in Honiara the last 12 months.
Edit - of course the OFC commentator is talking it up, but I remember the same guy calling the Women's Olympics qualifying final earlier this year. Ferns were up 4-0 or 5-0 nil at HT verus Solomons and he was saying something like SI needed to score next to have hope of a comeback blah blah blah. When it was blind Freddy obvious they were out classed and the only thing to discuss was the final Ferns winning margin.
Edit 2 - Fiji win 1-0. AWs to play Tahiti next Thursday in their semi.
Agree with 90% of this but double digits figures are rare in international football, and expect the worst sides (American Samoa, Cook Islands, Tonga) not to reach the stage we begin in.
FYI - the last time the AWs hosted an OFC team was way back in Sept 2017. A 6-1 rout of the Solomons at Albany.
Monty Patterson & Sam Brotherton started that game. Also Themi, WeeMac, Deklan Wynne (LB) & Storm Roux (RB). Fair to say when at full strength we now have much better players. With Roux agruably not.
First round OFC WC qualifying tourney in September window. Four lowest FIFA ranked OFC teams. Likely Samoa, Cooks, American Samoa & Tonga.
Winner of that tourney, joins 7 highest ranked OFC teams when Second round WC qualifying starts in October window. Most probably NZ, Solomons, PNG, Fiji, New Caledonia, Vanuatu & Tahiti with Samoa.
2 pools of 4 teams. So Samoa could be in the AWs pool. They just lost to Fiji 9-1. Even PNG got spanked 5-1 by Fiji.
As well as enjoying the fact that we are showing no signs of struggling or tripping up against OFC opposition, I'm also glad that Bazeley is sticking with a back 4. We simply can't do a back 5 well, any defensive stability we gain is easily outweighed by the territory and possession we lose as a result against any decent opposition. Playing a back 5 in the islands might have given the misleading impression we can retain a decent amount of midfield/attacking presence while doing so, but we simply cannot against a team that isn't parking the bus against us. Sure a back 5 was effective for Ricki for a very brief period around 2010, when it happened to be the case that we were flush with quality CBs and didn't have many midfielders, but you can't describe that football we played as anything but dour & defensive.
Going to be really interesting to see Bindon & Surman as a CB pair against high quality opposition at the Olympics, as it doesn't seem that likely that Boxall will make it to the next World Cup without losing a step. Though I would be very happy to be proven wrong, he is still quite the athlete & seems to still have a really good burst of pace, and if Pepe can still do it at the Euros at 41 then maybe Mike can do it at the age of 38 in 2026.
I agree with coochies comment above. I’m not seeing much improvement from the Island countries either. What I’ve witnessed this tournament has been poor to the point of unwatchable. That includes from us.
The football has been meh, but we have looked largely untroubled in both games. That's not always the case, and given the 2nd 11 feel to this squad that's not to be sneezed at.
Refs and heat level the playing field as usual, although the quality of the pitch is much improved.
I think in general the islands are getting better, just not as quickly as us.
The football has been meh, but we have looked largely untroubled in both games. That's not always the case, and given the 2nd 11 feel to this squad that's not to be sneezed at.
Refs and heat level the playing field as usual, although the quality of the pitch is much improved.
I think in general the islands are getting better, just not as quickly as us.
I've only seen the 2 AWs games, and small amounts of Fiji verus Tahiti plus SI verus Vanuatu.
I don't really think they are getting better at all. 2-5 passes, then hoof it forward, or try a low percentage pass which never comes off. No real evidence of some tactical plan to move it around, movements into space etc. Reliant on some piece of individual skill to create something.
Watching the crowd in Port Vila has been the most interesting vision so far.
Hopefully the Island teams will get better (I not optimstic they will) and them getting some more higher level friendlies like PNG & Vanuatu got in March will help. But those games are only planned to be every even numbered year, ie biennial in the March window.
AWs I think have looked good, esp the 2nd game against the hosts. No better than we should expect, and helped by scoring early in both games, to take some wind out of the opponent's sails. But yeah they have done the job in their 2 games to date. Bazeley has coached plenty of under age teams in the Islands, so he likely has some good nous & planning on what's required.
But yeah will be interesting how it goes if AWs don't score early in either semi or final. Might unfold a bit differently, but really it's hard to see them really troubled at all. Thankfully we have the Olympics around the corner to get a bit more excited about.
Re. quality of football in the OFC - it will be fascinating to see what if any impact the incoming OFC Pro League (supposedly beginning next year) has.
Re. quality of football in the OFC - it will be fascinating to see what if any impact the incoming OFC Pro League (supposedly beginning next year) has.
It's the infrastructure that will either hasten or hinder the progress more than just having a brand spanking new professional league in place.
Unless there is serious investment in facilities, coaching, and all the tangible stuff, then the progress will be slow. Yes, the standard should improve, but it will hardly be an overnight thing. I think they've already alluded as much by saying this is in preparations for the 2030 & 2034 World Cups and beyond.
Re. quality of football in the OFC - it will be fascinating to see what if any impact the incoming OFC Pro League (supposedly beginning next year) has.
It's the infrastructure that will either hasten or hinder the progress more than just having a brand spanking new professional league in place.
Unless there is serious investment in facilities, coaching, and all the tangible stuff, then the progress will be slow. Yes, the standard should improve, but it will hardly be an overnight thing. I think they've already alluded as much by saying this is in preparations for the 2030 & 2034 World Cups and beyond.
100% this. You have to have good quality pitches. It's hard to play a more technical possession based style if you don't know if the incoming pass is going to hit your ankle, shin or knee.
Then the coaching. Watching Vanuatu a few times, it seems they get really excited when they get the ball, the sideline crowd starts yelling and screaming, then some player just loses all composure and tries that low % miracle pass. There is next to no pattern of slow possession buildup. No calm general in midfield trying to run the show.
Without improvements in these 2 above factors especially, I see next to no real noticeable improvement, even with a pro league setup.
Perhaps Fiji & Tahiti having to travel from Suva to Vanuatu contributes to the long break.
... normally you'd have the group that requires travel finishing first, so that on the day the other group finishes their matches, that first group is travelling. Doing this negates the advantage of an extra days rest.
The way they have it structured, and they were probably constrained by the late shift of pool B from Vanuatu to Fiji, is that not only do qualifiers from Pool A (NZ, Vanuatu) have an extra days rest, they also don't have to spend a day travelling, so in effect have a two day preparation advantage.
Perhaps Fiji & Tahiti having to travel from Suva to Vanuatu contributes to the long break.
... normally you'd have the group that requires travel finishing first, so that on the day the other group finishes their matches, that first group is travelling. Doing this negates the advantage of an extra days rest.
The way they have it structured, and they were probably constrained by the late shift of pool B from Vanuatu to Fiji, is that not only do qualifiers from Pool A (NZ, Vanuatu) have an extra days rest, they also don't have to spend a day travelling, so in effect have a two day preparation advantage.
As well as the bye in the first round, as it turned out (obviously not something that could have been planned for, but skews the prep even more).
Re. quality of football in the OFC - it will be fascinating to see what if any impact the incoming OFC Pro League (supposedly beginning next year) has.
It's the infrastructure that will either hasten or hinder the progress more than just having a brand spanking new professional league in place.
Unless there is serious investment in facilities, coaching, and all the tangible stuff, then the progress will be slow. Yes, the standard should improve, but it will hardly be an overnight thing. I think they've already alluded as much by saying this is in preparations for the 2030 & 2034 World Cups and beyond.
100% this. You have to have good quality pitches. It's hard to play a more technical possession based style if you don't know if the incoming pass is going to hit your ankle, shin or knee.
Then the coaching. Watching Vanuatu a few times, it seems they get really excited when they get the ball, the sideline crowd starts yelling and screaming, then some player just loses all composure and tries that low % miracle pass. There is next to no pattern of slow possession buildup. No calm general in midfield trying to run the show.
Without improvements in these 2 above factors especially, I see next to no real noticeable improvement, even with a pro league setup.
I think there are larger challenges providing a pitch in a tropical climate too, than are faced in some of NZ.
How is the role out of artificial surfaces in NZ viewed? A successful trial/initiative?
I think the next 3 games will show where the OFC is really at. Fiji has been on fire this tourney.
I think some here have forgotten how bad OFC teams used to be (see Fiji vs AWs in the 80s etc).
But there have also been times since then when OFC teams have beaten the AWs. Vanuatu 2004 (neutral Adelaide) plus 'Horror in Honiara' 2012.
This severely weakened AWs team hasn't been troubled at all to date. Don't see that changing.
I'm old enough to know that OFC teams were actually good enough to beat both the All Whites and Australia even back in the 1980's. We take them lightly at our peril, especially when playing in the Islands. That 13-0 NZ thrashing of Fiji in 1981 was really an anomaly and not typical. (That Fijian side was ill disciplined, had been out drinking before the game etc.) Fiji recovered from that 1981 low point to beat both NZ and Australia a few years later. They beat us in 1983 and in two friendlies in 1988 as well. Australia lost to Fiji in a World Cup qualifier in 1988. (They had in previous years even lost their first ever meeting with Fiji in 1977) The year before that 13-0 thrashing, NZ only won one game at the 1980 OFC Nations Cup under John Adshead with many of the same players as in 1981 and failed to progress from our group. We were thrashed 4-0 by Fiji and 3-1 by Tahiti and our sole win was over the Solomons who were weak in those days.
My impression is that in the other group, Tahiti, Fiji and PNG were stronger than Vanuatu and the Solomons in our group. Tahiti has some good players who could cause us problems. Especially Mateo Degrumelle who plays for Le Havre in Ligue 1 in France. Signed for Le Havre last season from Amiens in Ligue 2. Born in France with a French Polynesian mother and has entirely come up through the French system. 20 year-old right wing-back / midfielder who likes to get forward and score. Two goals in the tournament so far.
His French pro career stats: Amiens SC B | 31 | 1 | 1 Amiens SC U19 | 24 | 3 | - Le Havre B | 7 | - | - Amiens SC | 2 | - (Ligue 2) Other useful Tahiti players: Eddy Kaspard, 23 year-old striker who has played in France since 2020 (Trialed with Saint Etienne and Auxerre in recent years) 3 goals in 4 games for Tahiti last year. Teaonui Tehau - 31 year-old striker, 27 goals in 38 internationals. Terai Bremond - 23 year-old midfielder formerly at Toulouse in Ligue 1.
If we go solely off the 2022 OFC tourney in neutral Qatar back in March 2022 (a stronger AWs team), Tahiti will be very defensive. That game was a tight 1-0 win for the AWs, Libby with the 70th min winner. Almost seemed like the Tahitians were trying their best to take the game to ET/pens, being very defensive.
AWs have scored early goals against both Solomons & Vanuatu and coasted from there. If it's more like 2022, and scoreless for a long time, that will frustrate a young AWs side and give the Tahitians a sniff.
On the other hand the AWs agains score early, and being a knock out semi Tahiti will have to be more attacking.
If we go solely off the 2022 OFC tourney in neutral Qatar back in March 2022 (a stronger AWs team), Tahiti will be very defensive. That game was a tight 1-0 win for the AWs, Libby with the 70th min winner. Almost seemed like the Tahitians were trying their best to take the game to ET/pens, being very defensive.
AWs have scored early goals against both Solomons & Vanuatu and coasted from there. If it's more like 2022, and scoreless for a long time, that will frustrate a young AWs side and give the Tahitians a sniff.
On the other hand the AWs agains score early, and being a knock out semi Tahiti will have to be more attacking.
They were also fairly lowscoring for Group B with only a few goals, especially with some poor opposition in PNG and Samoa.
I think we can cruise if we score early - same thing helped ACFC in the Champions League final.
If we go solely off the 2022 OFC tourney in neutral Qatar back in March 2022 (a stronger AWs team), Tahiti will be very defensive. That game was a tight 1-0 win for the AWs, Libby with the 70th min winner. Almost seemed like the Tahitians were trying their best to take the game to ET/pens, being very defensive.
AWs have scored early goals against both Solomons & Vanuatu and coasted from there. If it's more like 2022, and scoreless for a long time, that will frustrate a young AWs side and give the Tahitians a sniff.
On the other hand the AWs agains score early, and being a knock out semi Tahiti will have to be more attacking.
To be fair, that game was an absolute travesty. Tahiti would have had to abandon that game due to lack of players if any competent referee team was appointed; hard to believe anyone else would allow such blatant endangerment of our players. We played very afraid in that one, well below our standards.
Obviously we can't expect any special treatment in the semifinal tomorrow, but no reason to think it'll go as badly as the last game
