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The next All Whites coach

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Posted July 18, 2014 07:21 · last edited July 18, 2014 07:34

james dean wrote:

Bluemagic wrote:

james dean wrote:

Bluemagic wrote:

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Correct, which does beg the question, err, why is a non-football person the CEO of NZF in the first place?

[/quote]

Because being a footballer does not automatically qualify someone to run a multi million dollar enterprise. Why not give John Terry a call, he's a good footballer and seems like a top bloke also!!

I would rather have a guy who knows jack shit about football, but is a proven CEO steering NZF than someone with very little business sense potentially steering us in to financial oblivion.

Let those around him with experience of NZ football help inform him and guide him. If he has any real ability as a leader, he'll listen to those in the know and go from there.

NZF is a business and should be run as such.

Oh, so forget about any knowledge or even interest in the game, players or local scene. lets appoint a London city banker who can count the pennies coming in and the pennies going out and look to squeeze the margins. Football is more than selling a product, it is a passion, a game. It's not about selling credit default swaps. I'm not saying that the CEO has to be a footballer but I do say he has to know and love the game or you're asking for trouble.

I have a theory that FVH and RH went for Andy Martin as a snide way of getting their own back for losing their little empire. Ivan Vuksich at ACFC is a classic example of a CEO who loves football with a passion and is a great administrator. You can't have one without the other. Otherwise it's like marriage without love. 

What we need to do when we interview anyone for a senior leadership role like this is get them to sing their national anthem, and see who can do it most passionately.  That's the guy who should always get the job, because roles like this are all about PASSION. 

What an absolute load of horseshit.  Seriously, do you truly believe that NZ Football starts and ends with ACFC?

Can you give me a better example than ACFC of a successful outfit on the NZ domestic scene? I just use it as an example of what a well-run club looks like when the CEO is competent and also passionate about football. The trouble is the mere mention of any praise of ACFC has some of you jumping up and down.

Saying the CEO of NZF needs to know and love the game or you're asking for trouble doesn't seem like "horseshit" to me. Try a bit harder. BTW my reference to FVH and RH was a bit of a joke, sort of.

It's like the film business, lawyers and accountants don't make good films, which is why so much franchise crap is now being churned out by studios which were once bastions of creativity. I fear decisions are being made within NZF that are light on actual football knowhow and that concerns me. I'm happy that Ivan Vicelich is back in the frame, his input will be needed.

Ivan is such a fan of NZ Football he's filled his team with overseas players.

ACFC are by far and away the best run ASBP franchise in the country.  Much of that is based on using the gaming trust system to their advantage and their position as the dominant team in the biggest city in the country.  They have been fairly ruthless in attracting good players from other franchises.  I see very little that is replicable about that when you look at NZ Football overall. 

Knowing and loving the game are one thing, but CEO is a strategic leadership position.  I agree that an understanding and passion for the game is important, but that is not the beginning and end of the skill set.  Sporting organisations are unique in that they need to be run as businesses but outcomes are judged based on field performance.  

Your contention is that the ASBP should be the primary focus for NZF.  The fact is, correctly I think, Martin has identified the All Whites and Football ferns as his primary immediate focus.  I'm unclear on his plans for the ASBP but I agree that something needs to change.  Personally, I think the franchise model works in a couple of places but generally hasn't achieved what it set out to do which is raise standards, crowds etc.  I remain unconvinced that it's the best way forward for the sport at the top level in the country.

If we are going to keep the franchise system I think there are 2 steps I would start with.  1, let's go back to the original franchise agreement and start enforcing the original terms around things like grounds, sign age, match day experience for fans etc.  Secondly, there has to be some competitive pressure to stop teams doing a Waikato and just having a year where they play kids because there is no real problem with finishing bottom.  I think you need some level of security obviously but there neerds to be consequences for failure to promote teams to be ambitious.  Maybe the focus should be on adding an 8 team second division rather than expanding the top division?  Let's say you have Phoenix Reserves, Nelson, North Shore, Tauranga, Second Wellington Team, South Auckland, Palmerston you're then most of the way there.  I'd also tighten up the overseas player category as I don't think it's working as intended.

You constantly preach the same, non-specific mantra of more sponsorship, more investment.  But I still don't understand how you think (a) that money should be applied to improve the league and (b) how you go about improving standards for teams based in small cities with fairly weak local leagues.  The only suggestion is a "TV Highlights" package which I think frankly does little because the quality of the broadcast is low and only really serves to highlight the relatively poor on field product.

Yes the national league should be a primary focus of the NZF, not virtually ignored as is. Yes ACFC has advantages in being from Auckland but so does Waitakere. Yes, as I've said so before, more investment and sponsorship for the ASBP should go to help lift the income and playing quality of the struggling franchises. ACFC doesn't need help, but others do. I've always advocated more of a level playing field for our national league but that won't be achieved by dragging down the best franchise. It will only be achieved by lifting up the struggling franchises. As it is ACFC, by winning the O League four times in a row has plowed well over a million dollars back into the ASBP so stop harking on that they just take and don't give. What other franchise has given back so much to the competition?

By the way ACFC also won the 2014 youth league for all those who imply it just takes from the top. I think there is so much resentment of the success of ACFC it clouds reason for some of you. The reason players want to play for the club is because they're successful. That's the nature of the beast the world over.

I love ACFC and I love the national league and I want to see the whole competition prosper. I'd love to see eight teams up to ACFCs standard. Why is that so wrong? Your slur on Ivan is beneath contempt.

I would add that having a robust and competitive national league is more important than the AWs which is largely composed of overseas-based players and more important than a Nix reserve team getting playing time.

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Bluemagic edited July 18, 2014 07:34
james dean wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:
james dean wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:
MetalLegNZ wrote:

Correct, which does beg the question, err, why is a non-football person the CEO of NZF in the first place?

[/quote]

Because being a footballer does not automatically qualify someone to run a multi million dollar enterprise. Why not give John Terry a call, he's a good footballer and seems like a top bloke also!!

I would rather have a guy who knows jack shit about football, but is a proven CEO steering NZF than someone with very little business sense potentially steering us in to financial oblivion.

Let those around him with experience of NZ football help inform him and guide him. If he has any real ability as a leader, he'll listen to those in the know and go from there.

NZF is a business and should be run as such.

Oh, so forget about any knowledge or even interest in the game, players or local scene. lets appoint a London city banker who can count the pennies coming in and the pennies going out and look to squeeze the margins. Football is more than selling a product, it is a passion, a game. It's not about selling credit default swaps. I'm not saying that the CEO has to be a footballer but I do say he has to know and love the game or you're asking for trouble.

I have a theory that FVH and RH went for Andy Martin as a snide way of getting their own back for losing their little empire. Ivan Vuksich at ACFC is a classic example of a CEO who loves football with a passion and is a great administrator. You can't have one without the other. Otherwise it's like marriage without love. 

What we need to do when we interview anyone for a senior leadership role like this is get them to sing their national anthem, and see who can do it most passionately.  That's the guy who should always get the job, because roles like this are all about PASSION. 

What an absolute load of horseshit.  Seriously, do you truly believe that NZ Football starts and ends with ACFC?

Can you give me a better example than ACFC of a successful outfit on the NZ domestic scene? I just use it as an example of what a well-run club looks like when the CEO is competent and also passionate about football. The trouble is the mere mention of any praise of ACFC has some of you jumping up and down.

Saying the CEO of NZF needs to know and love the game or you're asking for trouble doesn't seem like "horseshit" to me. Try a bit harder. BTW my reference to FVH and RH was a bit of a joke, sort of.

It's like the film business, lawyers and accountants don't make good films, which is why so much franchise crap is now being churned out by studios which were once bastions of creativity. I fear decisions are being made within NZF that are light on actual football knowhow and that concerns me. I'm happy that Ivan Vicelich is back in the frame, his input will be needed.

Ivan is such a fan of NZ Football he's filled his team with overseas players.

ACFC are by far and away the best run ASBP franchise in the country.  Much of that is based on using the gaming trust system to their advantage and their position as the dominant team in the biggest city in the country.  They have been fairly ruthless in attracting good players from other franchises.  I see very little that is replicable about that when you look at NZ Football overall. 

Knowing and loving the game are one thing, but CEO is a strategic leadership position.  I agree that an understanding and passion for the game is important, but that is not the beginning and end of the skill set.  Sporting organisations are unique in that they need to be run as businesses but outcomes are judged based on field performance.  

Your contention is that the ASBP should be the primary focus for NZF.  The fact is, correctly I think, Martin has identified the All Whites and Football ferns as his primary immediate focus.  I'm unclear on his plans for the ASBP but I agree that something needs to change.  Personally, I think the franchise model works in a couple of places but generally hasn't achieved what it set out to do which is raise standards, crowds etc.  I remain unconvinced that it's the best way forward for the sport at the top level in the country.

If we are going to keep the franchise system I think there are 2 steps I would start with.  1, let's go back to the original franchise agreement and start enforcing the original terms around things like grounds, sign age, match day experience for fans etc.  Secondly, there has to be some competitive pressure to stop teams doing a Waikato and just having a year where they play kids because there is no real problem with finishing bottom.  I think you need some level of security obviously but there neerds to be consequences for failure to promote teams to be ambitious.  Maybe the focus should be on adding an 8 team second division rather than expanding the top division?  Let's say you have Phoenix Reserves, Nelson, North Shore, Tauranga, Second Wellington Team, South Auckland, Palmerston you're then most of the way there.  I'd also tighten up the overseas player category as I don't think it's working as intended.

You constantly preach the same, non-specific mantra of more sponsorship, more investment.  But I still don't understand how you think (a) that money should be applied to improve the league and (b) how you go about improving standards for teams based in small cities with fairly weak local leagues.  The only suggestion is a "TV Highlights" package which I think frankly does little because the quality of the broadcast is low and only really serves to highlight the relatively poor on field product.

Yes the national league should be a primary focus of the NZF, not virtually ignored as is. Yes ACFC has advantages in being from Auckland but so does Waitakere. Yes, as I've said so before, more investment and sponsorship for the ASBP should go to help lift the income and playing quality of the struggling franchises. ACFC doesn't need help, but others do. I've always advocated more of a level playing field for our national league but that won't be achieved by dragging down the best franchise. It will only be achieved by lifting up the struggling franchises. As it is ACFC, by winning the O League four times in a row has plowed well over a million dollars back into the ASBP so stop harking on that they just take and don't give. What other franchise has given back so much to the competition?

By the way ACFC also won the 2014 youth league for all those who imply it just takes from the top. I think there is so much resentment of the success of ACFC it clouds reason for some of you. The reason players want to play for the club is because they're successful. That's the nature of the beast the world over.

I love ACFC and I love the national league and I want to see the whole competition prosper. I'd love to see eight teams up to ACFCs standard. Why is that so wrong?