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Posted January 27, 2021 20:42 · last edited January 27, 2021 20:42

mrsmiis wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Feverish wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Instead of there being 11 starting places, five bench places, and seven squad places in Canterbury and in Otago – as is the case with the existing setup, Canterbury United, and Southern United, making time for youngsters very hard to come by – there are now 88 and 40 in Canterbury and 88 and 40 in Otago.

This is precisely why the new system is such a terrible idea. Let's get as much donkey into the National League, and get dumb clubs (we all know who I'm talking about) to pay them sharkloads whike they're at it. Sorru, I mean ask them to do a lot of 'coaching'.

The sad reality is that there's probably only 11-12 clubs in the country that can actually make a fist of it, so basically the whole system's been changed just to give Olympic, Birko, or Wests a chance to be in the national league.

11>8

I can get up over 20 pretty quickly...

Interested to hear who they are. There's a maximum of 5-6 clubs who can do this across Central and Mainland Leagues (and including the South in that too). So there are 15+ clubs in the Northern region who can do this? I find that extremely difficult to believe. 

Clarify what you mean by 'do this' first... but I have 20 clubs that I generally would consider to be what NZF is looking for from a club – or of the size that makes them able to become what NZF is looking for rather swiftly.

Firstly, I'm amazed that you think that NZF actually knows what they want from the clubs under this system, but nevermind.

What I mean is, clubs that have strategic and financial capability and capacity to sustainably participate in the new National League system long-term.

On the pitch, I think NZF wants clubs that have teams right down through all the 11-a-side grades and that bring players through into their first team from within their own ranks.

I'll offer this list (which also takes into account off-the-pitch factors) of 22 clubs as a starting point

Auckland City/Central United

Auckland United

Birkenhead United

Eastern Suburbs

Manukau United

Northern Rovers

West Coast Rangers

Western Springs

Hamilton Wanderers

Melville United

Napier City Rovers

Wairarapa United

Lower Hutt City

Miramar Rangers

North Wellington

Wellington Olympic

Western Suburbs

Nelson Suburbs

Cashmere Technical

Christchurch United

Nomads United

South City Royals

while admitting I don't know much about the ins and outs of Otago clubs, so may have done some an injustice by leaving them off (and that I may be being too cautious in Canterbury – I'd expect Coastal Spirit and Ferrymead Bays to contest the qualification spots down there and I'd say Selwyn United has solid structures in place).

Edit: Will add that not all of these clubs are necessary there as things stand, some are, some aren't that far away, some need a mindset shift.

I'll stay away from Northern and South Island clubs, there are better placed people than ne to comment on that. Although I certainly have strong doubts about SI clubs outside of Christchurch, the Dunedin merger notwithstanding.

But the Central League is really only 4 clubs, Miramar, Wests, NCR, and Olympic, but Olympic don't have a junior club so will  undoubtedly lean on their supporters to throw lots of cash at players.

Wairarapa, Lower Hutt, North Wellington? Forget about it. Not in our lifetimes.

Wairarapa = Paul Ifill Academy, support of an entire region

Lower Hutt = Nix

North Wellington has made major major moves in the past few years, plus Tasman links

Curious what your cutoff is for a league-ready club? NZF’s suggestion is vague at best

Wairarapa is a tiny region that naturally gravitates to Wellington, best players there will always end up in Wellington, and the only way they could compete for top spots in the Central League was when Keinzley was throwing silly money at Wellington players to get up there for the weekend and play. So unless he's prepared to do that again, they're not a factor at all.

Lower Hutt and the Nix? Having Nix take over a local club has been a bad thing for the local club, not a good thing. Just ask Wellington United, and check out where they are now.

For North Wellington, as I said above, they managed to get themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt just by being in the Central League. That's not exactly confidence-inspiring for their financial sustainability and strategic thinking. 

As for Tasman - so the region that couldn't survive in the current set-up can provide a base for both Nelson Suburbs AND North Wellington? Sure. That's likely.

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Unknown editor edited January 27, 2021 20:42
mrsmiis wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:
Feverish wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
andrewvoerman wrote:

Instead of there being 11 starting places, five bench places, and seven squad places in Canterbury and in Otago – as is the case with the existing setup, Canterbury United, and Southern United, making time for youngsters very hard to come by – there are now 88 and 40 in Canterbury and 88 and 40 in Otago.

This is precisely why the new system is such a terrible idea. Let's get as much donkey into the National League, and get dumb clubs (we all know who I'm talking about) to pay them sharkloads whike they're at it. Sorru, I mean ask them to do a lot of 'coaching'.

The sad reality is that there's probably only 11-12 clubs in the country that can actually make a fist of it, so basically the whole system's been changed just to give Olympic, Birko, or Wests a chance to be in the national league.

11>8

I can get up over 20 pretty quickly...

Interested to hear who they are. There's a maximum of 5-6 clubs who can do this across Central and Mainland Leagues (and including the South in that too). So there are 15+ clubs in the Northern region who can do this? I find that extremely difficult to believe. 

Clarify what you mean by 'do this' first... but I have 20 clubs that I generally would consider to be what NZF is looking for from a club – or of the size that makes them able to become what NZF is looking for rather swiftly.

Firstly, I'm amazed that you think that NZF actually knows what they want from the clubs under this system, but nevermind.

What I mean is, clubs that have strategic and financial capability and capacity to sustainably participate in the new National League system long-term.

On the pitch, I think NZF wants clubs that have teams right down through all the 11-a-side grades and that bring players through into their first team from within their own ranks.

I'll offer this list (which also takes into account off-the-pitch factors) of 22 clubs as a starting point

Auckland City/Central United

Auckland United

Birkenhead United

Eastern Suburbs

Manukau United

Northern Rovers

West Coast Rangers

Western Springs

Hamilton Wanderers

Melville United

Napier City Rovers

Wairarapa United

Lower Hutt City

Miramar Rangers

North Wellington

Wellington Olympic

Western Suburbs

Nelson Suburbs

Cashmere Technical

Christchurch United

Nomads United

South City Royals

while admitting I don't know much about the ins and outs of Otago clubs, so may have done some an injustice by leaving them off (and that I may be being too cautious in Canterbury – I'd expect Coastal Spirit and Ferrymead Bays to contest the qualification spots down there and I'd say Selwyn United has solid structures in place).

Edit: Will add that not all of these clubs are necessary there as things stand, some are, some aren't that far away, some need a mindset shift.

I'll stay away from Northern and South Island clubs, there are better placed people than ne to comment on that. Although I certainly have strong doubts about SI clubs outside of Christchurch, the Dunedin merger notwithstanding.

But the Central League is really only 4 clubs, Miramar, Wests, NCR, and Olympic, but Olympic don't have a junior club so will  undoubtedly lean on their supporters to throw lots of cash at players.

Wairarapa, Lower Hutt, North Wellington? Forget about it. Not in our lifetimes.

Wairarapa = Paul Ifill Academy, support of an entire region

Lower Hutt = Nix

North Wellington has made major major moves in the past few years, plus Tasman links

Curious what your cutoff is for a league-ready club? NZF’s suggestion is vague at best

Wairarapa is a tiny region that naturally gravitates to Wellington, best players there will always end up in Wellington, and the only way they could compete for top spots in the Central League was when Keinzley was throwing silly money at Wellington players to get up there for the weekend and play. So unless he's prepared to that again, they're not a factor at all.

Lower Hutt and the Nix? Having Nix take over a local club has been a bad thing for the local club, not a good thing. Just ask Wellington United, and check out where they are now.

For North Wellington, as I said above, they managed to get themselves into a ridiculous amount of debt just by being in the Central League. That's not exactly confidence-inspiring for their financial sustainability and strategic thinking. 

As for Tasman - so the region that couldn't survive in the current set-up can provide a base for both Nelson Suburbs AND North Wellington? Sure. That's likely.