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Auckland City FC - Thanks a Trillion

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Posted December 12, 2013 23:53 · last edited December 12, 2013 23:57

I have 2 points Ali which I will lay out now we have finally gotten somewhere with it.

1: (which is mainly more about where your angle is Ali) You are a massive proponent of the ASBP and supporting what is in your backyard (the search function is great for that kind of thing) I can respect that but how can you get people along to a team that people cannot identify with because there is no local players? I know that exact same argument can be thrown at the Phoenix and fair enough but the difference is exposure and media - exactly what the ASBP does not have. People can identify with the Sigmunds, Brockies etc (AWs if you like) because its an 'NZ team' and those players have profiles being AWs. Now you are essentially trying to get people down to watch that are football people already (cause no one else knows what's going on because of lack of media) so why do the people from Mangere, Western Springs, Mt Albert, Ellerslie etc (and Chopah has mentioned this too in a round about way) want to go along and support a team of players they don't even know or have any buy in with. Because of good football? They can get that on TV for free and its better football. The CWC game, there was only 3 Kiwis starting I think (Tamati, Ivan and Danko). Ivan is a beacon for the club in that respects but that's it. Why should these football people whom have time on their hands, go and support a team of what is effectively imports that get paid when they shouldn't. If you are looking at local supporters, people have to generally identify with the club. Most people don't identify with ACFC because a: Its Central in disguise (just like Waitakere is as well) and b: No one knows these players. I understand that you can say 'well why do people support Man U etc' - because of exposure. Would exposure fix the problem? In some respects Yes (for getting people along to the ASBP in general but then you have to fight the quality of football offered too) but probably not to supporting your team because again, other than Ivan, there really is no players that are identifiable or can relate to. Understand that this is not a 'you need to find a solution to this Ali' but more a 'here is the problem and why I think the import situation does not help it'

 

2: (and more the general one) The Phoenix were accused by ACFC supporters of being an Aussie club in an Aussie league and doing nothing for NZ football because they bought in Aussie journeyman. The supporters were quite vocal on going and watching a team of Kiwis that were local etc. Looking at ACFC, how does what they are doing, help provide pathways to Kiwi footballers when there are so many imports? Lets forget the cash into the ASBP because the competition is that fucked it relies on an NZ team going to CWC to survive on that payout. If what the Phoenix was doing for so long was wrong, how does a ACFC, a team that is arguable in a more realistic competition to aim at for most footballers with talent in NZ, (ASBP being easier to get into than HAL) help provide those pathways that when its obvious you can't get in because of the amount of imports? You club has a fantastic coach and coaches a fantastic style (relative to what traditionally happens in NZ) Would it not be better for football in NZ to have Kiwis playing and learning to play that way than stacking a side full of imports?

 

The bullshit point I wanted to make is out of the way and finally its been acknowledged because while I can see positives to imports, what's going on at ACFC is not good for the game in terms of pathways for Kiwi players, local support etc. If you feel that you disagree with that, that's fine, but then you can't throw stones at the Phoenix for doing the same thing.

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Jeff Vader edited December 12, 2013 23:57

I have 2 points Ali which I will lay out now we have finally gotten somewhere with it.

1: (which is mainly more about where your angle is Ali) You are a massive proponent of the ASBP and supporting what is in your backyard (the search function is great for that kind of thing) I can respect that but how can you get people along to a team that people cannot identify with because there is no local players? I know that exact same argument can be thrown at the Phoenix and fair enough but the difference is exposure and media - exactly what the ASBP does not have. People can identify with the Sigmunds, Brockies etc (AWs if you like) because its an 'NZ team' and those players have profiles being AWs. Now you are essentially trying to get people down to watch that are football people already (cause no one else knows what's going on because of lack of media) so why do the people from Mangere, Western Springs, Mt Albert, Ellerslie etc (and Chopah has mentioned this too in a round about way) want to go along and support a team of players they don't even know or have any buy in with. Because of good football? They can get that on TV for free and its better football. The CWC game, there was only 3 Kiwis starting I think (Tamati, Ivan and Danko). Ivan is a beacon for the club in that respects but that's it. Why should these football people whom have time on their hands, go and support a team of what is effectively imports that get paid when they shouldn't. If you are looking at local supporters, people have to generally identify with the club. Most people don't identify with ACFC because a: Its Central in disguise (just like Waitakere is as well) and b: No one knows these players. I understand that you can say 'well why do people support Man U etc' - because of exposure. Would exposure fix the problem? In some respects Yes (for getting people along to the ASBP in general but then you have to fight the quality of football offered too) but probably not to supporting your team because again, other than Ivan, there really is no players that are identifiable or can relate to. Understand that this is not a 'you need to find a solution to this Ali' but more a 'here is the problem and why I think the import situation does not help it'

2: (and more the general one) The Phoenix were accused by ACFC supporters of being an Aussie club in an Aussie league and doing nothing for NZ football because they bought in Aussie journeyman. The supporters were quite vocal on going and watching a team of Kiwis that were local etc. Looking at ACFC, how does what they are doing, help provide pathways to Kiwi footballers when there are so many imports? Lets forget the cash into the ASBP because the competition is that fucked it relies on an NZ team going there to survive on that payout. If what the Phoenix was doing for so long was wrong, how does a ACFC, a team that is arguable in a more realistic competition to aim at for most footballers with talent in NZ, (ASBP being easier to get into than HAL) help provide those pathways that when its obvious you can't get in because of the amount of imports? You club has a fantastic coach and coaches a fantastic style (relative to what traditionally happens in NZ) Would it not be better for football in NZ to have Kiwis playing and learning to play that way than stacking a side full of imports?

The bullshit point I wanted to make is out of the way and finally its been acknowledged because while I can see positives to imports, what's going on at ACFC is not good for the game in terms of pathways for Kiwi players, local support etc. If you feel that you disagree with that, that's fine, but then you can't throw stones at the Phoenix for doing the same thing.

Jeff Vader edited December 12, 2013 23:57

I have 2 points Ali which I will lay out now we have finally gotten somewhere with it.

1: (which is mainly more about where your angle is Ali) You are a massive proponent of the ASBP and supporting what is in your backyard (the search function is great for that kind of thing) I can respect that but how can you get people along to a team that people cannot identify with because there is no local players? I know that exact same argument can be thrown at the Phoenix and fair enough but the difference is exposure and media - exactly what the ASBP does not have. People can identify with the Sigmunds, Brockies etc (AWs if you like) because its an 'NZ team' and those players have profiles being AWs. Now you are essentially trying to get people down to watch that are football people already (cause no one else knows what's going on because of lack of media) so why do the people from Mangere, Western Springs, Mt Albert, Ellerslie etc (and Chopah has mentioned this too in a round about way) want to go along and support a team of players they don't even know or have any buy in with. Because of good football? They can get that on TV for free and its better football. The CWC game, there was only 3 Kiwis starting I think (Tamati, Ivan and Danko). Ivan is a beacon for the club in that respects but that's it. Why should these football people whom have time on their hands, go and support a team of what is effectively imports that get paid when they shouldn't. If you are looking at local supporters, people have to generally identify with the club. Most people don't identify with ACFC because a: Its Central in disguise (just like Waitakere is as well) and b: No one knows these players. I understand that you can say 'well why do people support Man U etc' - because of exposure. Would exposure fix the problem? In some respects Yes (for getting people along to the ASBP in general but then you have to fight the quality of football offered too) but probably not to supporting your team because again, other than Ivan, there really is no players that are identifiable or can relate to. Understand that this is not a 'you need to find a solution to this Ali' but more a 'here is the problem and why I think the import situation does not help it'

2: (and more the general one) The Phoenix were accused by ACFC supporters of being an Aussie club in an Aussie league and doing nothing for NZ football because they bought in Aussie journeyman. Looking at ACFC, how does what they are doing, help provide pathways to Kiwi footballers when there are so many imports? Lets forget the cash into the ASBP because the competition is that fucked it relies on an NZ team going there to survive on that payout. If what the Phoenix was doing for so long was wrong, how does a ACFC, a team that is arguable in a more realistic competition to aim at for most footballers with talent in NZ, (ASBP being easier to get into than HAL) help provide those pathways that when its obvious you can't get in because of the amount of imports? You club has a fantastic coach and coaches a fantastic style (relative to what traditionally happens in NZ) Would it not be better for football in NZ to have Kiwis playing and learning to play that way than stacking a side full of imports?

The bullshit point I wanted to make is out of the way and finally its been acknowledged because while I can see positives to imports, what's going on at ACFC is not good for the game in terms of pathways for Kiwi players, local support etc. If you feel that you disagree with that, that's fine, but then you can't throw stones at the Phoenix for doing the same thing.

Jeff Vader edited December 12, 2013 23:55

I have 2 points Ali which I will lay out now we have finally gotten somewhere with it.

1: (which is mainly more about where your angle is Ali) You are a massive proponent of the ASBP and supporting what is in your backyard (the search function is great for that kind of thing) I can respect that but how can you get people along to a team that people cannot identify with because there is no local players? I know that exact same argument can be thrown at the Phoenix and fair enough but the difference is exposure and media - exactly what the ASBP does not have. People can identify with the Sigmunds, Brockies etc (AWs if you like) because its an 'NZ team' and those players have profiles being AWs. Now you are essentially trying to get people down to watch that are football people already (cause no one else knows what's going on because of lack of media) so why do the people from Mangere, Western Springs, Mt Albert, Ellerslie etc (and Chopah has mentioned this too in a round about way) want to go along and support a team of players they don't even know or have any buy in with. Because of good football? They can get that on TV for free and its better football. The CWC game, there was only 3 Kiwis starting I think (Tamati, Ivan and Danko). Ivan is a beacon for the club in that respects but that's it. Why should these football people whom have time on their hands, go and support a team of what is effectively imports that get paid when they shouldn't. If you are looking at local supporters, people have to generally identify with the club. Most people don't identify with ACFC because a: Its Central in disguise (just like Waitakere is as well) and b: No one knows these players. I understand that you can say 'well why do people support Man U etc' - because of exposure. Would exposure fix the problem? Yes (for getting people along to the ASBP in general) but probably not to supporting your team because again, other than Ivan, there really is no players that are identifiable or can relate to. Understand that this is not a 'you need to find a solution to this Ali' but more a 'here is the problem and why I think the import situation does not help it'

2: (and more the general one) The Phoenix were accused by ACFC supporters of being an Aussie club in an Aussie league and doing nothing for NZ football because they bought in Aussie journeyman. Looking at ACFC, how does what they are doing, help provide pathways to Kiwi footballers when there are so many imports? Lets forget the cash into the ASBP because the competition is that fucked it relies on an NZ team going there to survive on that payout. If what the Phoenix was doing for so long was wrong, how does a ACFC, a team that is arguable in a more realistic competition to aim at for most footballers with talent in NZ, (ASBP being easier to get into than HAL) help provide those pathways that when its obvious you can't get in because of the amount of imports? You club has a fantastic coach and coaches a fantastic style (relative to what traditionally happens in NZ) Would it not be better for football in NZ to have Kiwis playing and learning to play that way than stacking a side full of imports?

The bullshit point I wanted to make is out of the way and finally its been acknowledged because while I can see positives to imports, what's going on at ACFC is not good for the game in terms of pathways for Kiwi players, local support etc. If you feel that you disagree with that, that's fine, but then you can't throw stones at the Phoenix for doing the same thing.