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Waikato grief

101 replies · 15,441 views

over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

it doesnt matter wat roger does melville players and respected members will always have a anti view, the only way roger can do good is if in every interview he does he needs to say that aaron scott and steven holloway are by far the best players waikato have!!! if he does that the melville camp will be happy!

isnt gower park the pitch thats on a lean!it like doing hill sprints all the time and the divets ?? do u gus play golf on there? damn if u think thats up to scartch for the premier NL u got the wrong people in charge!!

personally cant wait for the local derbys next year ...besides bruce i would worry bout signing all your players to melville instead of being anti wanderers by all accounts it sounds like at least 3 of last years squad are on the move....still theres plenty of cambridge boys u could pick up...

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Paranoid clap trap.

Everyone stop acting like 12 year olds and read what is actually written.

If you read Bruce's posts in a neutral frame of mind there is very little said in there that isn't the accepted view of many neutrals. If you want personal slanging matches do it on the Melville forum.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Showstopper, back the truck up a bit and calm down. Breathe through your nose and count to 10. Then go and have a lie down.

I wrote: "in all probability he will start, given his background with Wanderers".

What that means is the coaching staff - given they both worked with wanderers over the winter - are very familiar with the package he brings to the table, far moreso than imports or those from other clubs.

I would suggest they know far more about Luke's strengths than, say, someone like me, who only saw him play once over winter. Further, as they were the club people who brought him out, a relationship already exists. I think that's material in a situation such as Waikato's where a lot of the players are very even in ability.

By the way, I am not posting anything here as a reporter, but as a fan, which is my prime relatinoship to the game over summer.

I am at a loss to understand where "sympathy" for Melville comes into the equation. Melville don't need sympathy, they're doing fine.

Finally, until you are mature enough to put your name to your postings or your thoughts, don't even think about telling others to grow up. It's easy to spout accusations when you are hiding behind anonymity, but it takes a bit of fortitude to put your name to them. Cheers.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

jeff sole got the call up from roger last year after they hit some hard times, wonder if he will get the call up again

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think Jeff Sole could still do a good job. He's in much the same mould as Bunce and seems to be in good nick. Strong waikato pedigree for those that like that sort of thing.

And Waikato are short of cover in that department. Hone Fowler would primarily appeal as a left back, though has made a good fist of the centre back role and strikes me as the best option alongside Aaron Scott.

David Samson could possible fill-in - he played there as a schoolboy, and has great athleticism, though i think is better suited to right back.

Stu watene? Possibly. Paul Stewart? a longer shot, though did fill the role in youth football.

On their named team squad Waikato listed just five defenders.

With all due deference to Luke, the bigger questinon is who should be captain now that both prime candidates have thrown their hand in.

Dan Robinson looks to have leadership qualities and a sound understanding ofthe game, and as the only keepr in the squad (Waikato are the only team to name just one keeper) is assured of starting. But there is a school of thought that shies away from goalkeeper captains.

Otherwise who? Rob Gill?

Aaron Scott captained Waikato briefly as a 19-year-old under Declan Edge. Another candidate?

jeff sole if he came back?

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bruce

we all know what you meant by the comment, you`ve talked your way around it very nicely. The coaching staff at waikato have been working with the players for 6 weeks now, i think they are aware of the strenghts and weaknesses of the payers regardless of where they played in the winter. Roger and Mark have also worked with the majority of the squad in the past not just the Wanderers payers. To say a player will be picked because of his affiliation with wanderers is saying their is bias towards Wanderers players, dress it up all you want we know what you meant.

Why is the selection of findley so debateable anyway? their is only him, watene, fowler and the welsh boy that can play left side it is not like he is getting selected in place of one of your melville players.

Your ability to accuratly judge and analyse football has been serously effected since you bacame president of Melville. Does your bitterness towards Wanderers come from them pipping you to promotion in 2006?????

As for hidding behind alias`s arnt you the creator of Cordwainer bull and Angus hereford etc.?? Some people like to express their point of view but may be criticized or disadvantaged if they put there name to it.

wanderblue2007-10-29 12:25:45

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

try to talk ur way out of it but we all know wat was meant!!

also if u only saw him play once in the winter how can u say he he will slow the play down and takes 12 touches instead of two.?? hard to judge a player after one performance!!

i saw wayne bates play in the winter for melville he was quite large and very uncoordinated then i saw him play the 2nd time and guess wat .....he was still large and uncoordinated see i can say that becuase i saw him play more than 2 times !!

with luke he could skin anyone in the league best suited behind the front two or leftmidfield.. he needs to bulk up a bit maybe try batesys diet?

in the waikato squad there is no us(wanderers them (melville) mentality its just people like u make it into a us and them thing..

I beleive A scott could gt the captaincy but very injury prone possibly stu watene...

sam wilkinson capt wanderers a few times and did well although needs to keep his temparament in check..

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I haven't talked around anything. I've very patiently tried to explain what i think, and why. and put my name to it. That's about as transparent as you can get.

It's not a bias towards "wanderers players" per se, but a natural bias towards "the devil you know". Waikato have played three pre-season games of any magnitude, and of those a number of "fringe" players would still fall short of an aggregate of 90 minutes on the pitch. Luke was probably one of them. But given the knowledge of his winter form, under the eye of the current waikato coaching staff, I still think that definitely helps his case, regardless of your paraniod statements..

If you want to write anything else into my comments, you're the one with the chip on yer shoulder.

I have no bitterness towards Wanderers. Indeed, a couple of weeks back i gave my wanderers counterpart a lift to the waikato game in Papakura after meeting him at the pub. It was good to compare notes. Wanderers face pretty much the same challenges as Melville do.

You don't see me launching personal attacks on Wanderers people in the manner you are doing here. (And I know who you are).

For the record, my 15-year-old pen names were introduced initially at the behest of a former editor, concerned about professional conflict in me writing highly opinionated comment pieces in other outlets. But I have never sought to hide my identity - as witnessed by the fact people such as yourself are aware of them.

Waikato players i've seen pop up on the left flank at national or northern league level include: Paul Stewart, Stu watene, Hone fowler, Stanley waita, Nathan Holten, Luke Findley. Plus there is the Dale williams possibility. That's 7 out of a named squad of 19. I thinks that makes it worthy of debate.

Hope this helps.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nzsportsprogrammes

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

bruce can fight his own battles, but I do think the Wanderers camp here should take a good hard look at themselves and the mud they are chucking around and ask themselves if they really think they are acting in anyone's best interests. It's a far worse reflection on them than anything bruce has come up with. just chidlish.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Stray Cat makes a good point.

Also see Marius's post about playing the ball, not the man. Go for your life discussing selections and players but steer clear of rubbishing other forum members.

Cheers.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bruce,

I have never made a personal attack on you, I am attacking your comments!

You are entitled to have an opinon but if your opinion involves making assumptions about why a player is being selected in a team you have to expect your opinion to recieve objection.

You have given a very good explanation of your comment regarding findleys selection but I stll believe when you initially made the comment you were implying that he would be selected because he has played for wanderers.

It is not the first time you have made a comment like this in an earlier post you made a comment about roger having a phoebia of melville and that this blinds him of good opportunites, what are you basing this on other than the fact they didnt swap a training game from their training ground at porritt to Gower park???

Making comments like this you are implying there is a pro Wanderers anti Melville set up at Waikato and there is not.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Wanderblue at 1.54pm:

"I have never made a personal attack on you, I am attacking your comments!"

Wanderblue earlier at 12.22pm:

"Your ability to accuratly judge and analyse football has been serously effected since you bacame president of Melville. Does your bitterness towards Wanderers come from them pipping you to promotion in 2006?????"

Hmmm. Readers can make up their own mind. Anybody else and you'd not be welcome.

Roger has always had his little patter and jokes about Melville, as someone else noted here. Everyone quotes them back to us, and more often than not we take them in good jest -- though there is a cumulative effect. It rubs off on the more immature elements, of which there are plenty.

Roger has, actually, a couple of times spoken his mind to me on exactly what he thinks of Melville and why. Funniliy enough, i agree with him to a certain extent on some issues, though can't see any point in re-litigating them here. As you say, for national league purposes we are on the same side.

If I thought there was an anti-Melville set-up at Waikato FC you would certainly have heard loud and clear from me by now. Trust me on that one.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bruce

I`m sorry if you see that as a personal attck, Once again I must state that i am attacking your comments not you. what was meant by that remark was that I believe you no longer make neutral judgments.

As someone who has read and enjoyed your work for many years I have to say that you do report everything through melville coloured spectacles since you became there president.

But Im glad to here you dont think that there is an anti Melville pro Wanderers set up at waikato.

If there is an over rpresentation of Wanderers players in the waikato starting line up surely it is because they are stronger more technical team from a higher division then melville????

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ease up on Bruce. I've refereed both sides and have to say that his observations are not too far off the mark.

I did have an earlier post on here regarding my thoughts on Luke Findley but it was deleted. I think thats shows what I thought of him.

Reading the media re the reason Williams left Waikato, it seems that there is definitely smoke in the Melville-Wanderers arguement.

In the end, its all immaterial. If they do manage to put a half decent side on the park, the in fighting will nix it all, and that a shame for Waikato football.

Cue Feedback saying I'm not allowed to have an opinion as a referee....

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

DrQuack32 wrote:

Cue Feedback saying I'm not allowed to have an opinion as a referee....

Yes, stop it.

Actually your last post got deleted more for the retaliatory posts it caused. It was borderline but the two reponses were a disgrace so i thought it better gone.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

We haven't had the starting line-up, but if it was my call, I'd have Samson, Holloway and Scott in mine. And Holten, and Stewart on the bench, as i earlier posted.

Soooo, unless you nominate six wanderers players to make the cut, I guess, under your logic, if there are more Melville players in the squad (over-representation) it will show THEY are more techincal, stronger, know better how to win games etc. Seriously, if that thinking had any credibility we wouldn't have had five melville players in the original squad, let alone a couple from ngaruawahia. It's just too silly, too desperate, too paranoid. Re-work your material, you can do better than that.

Apart from club programme and blog comments I have barely written about football in the past four years, though there was an inescapable emergency call-up when I spent a six-week spell filling in for the Times. (It was beyond my control that at the time wanderers were battling against relegation, under the spotlight for internal grief with alleged racism and setting new benchmarks for misconduct.)

I have however recently been contracted to do a bit of football stuff this summer. So watch out, the rose-spectacles will definitely come off if you don't scrub up!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Actually your last post got deleted more for the retaliatory posts it caused. It was borderline but the two reponses were a disgrace so i thought it better gone.

I got no issue with that

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Firstly Quack,

why are you still positng on here??? As a supposed referee you should not be voicing preferences towards certain teams or singling out players for crticism(Luke findley) especially when you could be reffing these players in the upcoming league. As a referee your opinion must reamain neutral, it is supposed to come wth the job.

bruce,

My point was that if there was prioroity given to Wanderers players, which there isnt! It would be understandible as they play at higher level. Surely you are not going to debate that the northern 1st division is a higher standard then the northern premer league.

It would be the equivilent of Steve Mcaren picking Man Utd players over Preston players because they play at a higher level.

I do not believe there is priority to players from any particular club when it comes to selecting the Waikato team. The comment was made to get a bite from you and..... mmmm readers can make ther mind up on that!

In all seriousness i think despite recent defections from the Waikato squad, Waikato has one of the closest knit bunch of players in the league, despite a lot of the banter, players from melville, wanderers and Ngaruawahia all get along very well.

wanderblue2007-10-29 18:09:57

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I guess in the end its just people with high thoughts of their own importance that have the issue here ...in my opine i side with Bruce, it will however be interesting too see how the cookies crumble of the side begins to pack in - who scurries first...

Aaron Scott for captain from my side

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

mate your just all about the negativity. Everyone wants Waikato to fall apart but we will see whos laughing when the lads bossing the league!!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Waikato through and through me - born and bred, i hope you are right ....

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

DrQuack32 wrote:

Your not allowed an opinion as a referee....

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Quackie... I'm going to say your humour sensor failed and hope that is how feedback meant his statement.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

That is possible.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

without being a spoil sport its true whythe F@ck is quack posting on here?? refs are meant t o neutral do u think premier league refs get on forums in the uk and talk bad bout lampard rooney etc?? conflict of interest mate!! best u sign up to forums on how to actually improve ur reffing standards cause wat i saw from u this year u were appalling..

lets cut back on the bruce thing but wanderblue I hate to agree with u you do have a point re the reporting..even when melville lost bruce always found ways in the past to mention the outstanding steven holloway etc?? there were times there when wanderers won and melville trounced yet wanderers would get 3 lines and melville get color photos plus a few paragraphs ngaras if lucky had there score put in ??? and hey im not a wanderers supporter just neutral so dont make this into a anti wanderers melville debate

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Right folks.

Final decree here.

If you want to talk bullsh*t piss off the Melville or Wanderers forums. As an ex-Wanderers junior (kind of) and a Melville supporter this crap makes Waikato football look like a complete clusterf**k.

Have some dignity and if you can't get you sh*t together on here I'll close the thread and ban the lot of you.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

News has hidden/deleted a post that puts his outburst into context. It's not, I don't believe, aimed at any of the other recent posters, whose posts you can still see.

To be fair I thought the thread had settled into a reasonable discussion, but then if you could all read this post News has deleted you'd all be reaching for the mega-neutron-ban-stick.

Keep up the good chatter though.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

As an ex-Wanderers junior

If ever there was an indictment of a junior coaching setup...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

In Wanderers defence in those days the club was called Tramway Rovers and it did not become the Wanderers Junior club until well after I left.

I did Ball Boy at Porritt Stadium for Wanderers a few times back in the 78-80 timeframe.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

From an outsider looking in, is interesting to see that certain people would put clubs above province, and would rather have a go at people rather than accept different opinions. I would have thought the melville/Wanderers bollocks would have finished a few weeks ago with the end of the season...

Waikato supporters and team need to sort their act out as waitak and auckland look their usual selves, and with stu jacobs at the helm of Team wellington, top 3 is looking miles away at the moment

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I've got my money on the bottom 2 purely because other teams save maybe Manawatu, look to have improved or held their own. Waikato look to have gone backwards with the latest furore
DrQuack322007-10-30 16:54:03

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Backwards from last season?????

What you on about quack???? waikatos squad is a hundred times better than last season!

Stick to what you do best....... making bad decisions!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ok lets evaluate and I put my thoughts out based on the squads, players, previous history and coaches.

Waitakere and Auckland are the odds on favourite for top 2 positions.
Wellington have a new coach and I think a coach that the players want to play for and Hawkes Bay have recruited well. They'd be the next 2.
Danny Halligan always puts a footballing side on the pitch because he has always had and understands football. Rufer has lost a few but seems to have picked up a few unknowns. Canterbury and Manawatu for the next 2.
Otago suffer from lack of resources and being a Uni town, a merry go round on a 4 yearly cycle of players. The only team not suffering in Otago is the Netball Rebels. With the lost of two of Waikatos best players right before the start of the season and less than stellar preseason results (yes it preseason) the he said she said of Matt Williams just makes me think that all is not happy.
They would be the bottom 2.

In the end, its all immaterial as long as I see good football. If you think different, cool. Tell me why.
DrQuack322007-10-30 22:15:19

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ok in reply to Dr mugs post.....

From last season waikato has picked up Sinkura, Van Rooyen, Fowler, Gill, Holloway, Wilkinson, Findley,Williams, Watene plus more.

Only losses of any note have been Matt Williams.

I cannot understand the logic behind you saying they have gone backwards????? If you look at the incoming players vs the outgoing ones!

As for pre season results which dont mean anything anyway, they lost 1-0 to Waitak in a game that could of gone either way and lost to Hawkes Bay, Two games that were both designed to be about increasing fitness and sharpness not about picking up a win!

Aside from Waikato your reasoning behind cantabury being strong this year is that danny Halligan always puts out a good team????????? I dont think that logic quite stacks up, If you look at their team you will see that they have lost a lot of players from last season.

Cant wait to see what you have to say when the Waikato boys are pickng up RESULTS!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

sounds like findley has the job spoke to him today and roger is keen for him to do it if its taken seriously...sam wilkinson vice possibly.. i hear jeff sole is 90% signed to the cause as well talk of matt hastings oming back from aus to fill the void .(.Matt used to play for cambridge)

michael mayne and LJ have been asked both are happy hwere they are for the ime been..

theres a new guy floating around traing as well hes a yank also with ginger hair but weird ass haircut looks like a goose possibly one of boomers mates..

wat bout karl budgen?? he once played u17 nz ....

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Unlike yourself, I wont get personal or emotional about it.

Granted I may not have used the terms backwards very well. I think that a few teams have made some smart signings and genuinely improved themselves and while Waikato may have picked up some players, i don't thnik they will be up to the pace. I saw the preseason game against Waitakere. Waikato were only in that game because Waitakere allowed them to be even thouigh it was only 1-0. Wilkinson and Findley I don't rate. IF Dale Williams gets fit then you can crow about him, but hes had how many weeks to get into shape...?
Sinkora is a good pick up and would have worked well with Matt Williams. Van Rooyen puts himself about but I think there are better midfielders in the league that may teach him a few lessons. You've got one of the better GKs in the league and Watene will add maturity yes.

Still don't see them getting results tho.. If they do, I'll gladly give you your dues right here and I'm sure you'll remind me. Oh where did you pick them to finish sorry?
DrQuack322007-10-30 23:04:33

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

it is fair enough to assume Waikato are stronger. But if all the other teams are also stronger, it is all relative, isn't it. I am a Waikato supporter but even i must admit some of the reviews of pre-season have been less than impressive. Finally, Riddler, on behalf of Waikato fans who don't come from your particular club environment, please leave out the name calling (Dr Mug) and insults to others. It adds nothing.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I'm still hopeful Waikato FC will be in the top half of the table, but picking a finishing position is a very subjective business.

Injuries could be pivotal. For instance, what happens if dan robinson gets injured this weekend? David Samson in goal? Waikato also have very little defensive cover.

On that front, i think Waikato ranks thin faster than most other teams. But if they can find a starting place for the their 11 best players Waikato can still be competitive.

We can't deny the loss of Matt Williams and Che Bunce will leave a hole, but now it puts more in the spotlight those who WILL be playing.

Pre-season waikato's midfield never really got cracking. i expect Sam Wilkinson to come back in. he can be dangerous on the edge of the box, and will be suited to a 4-4-2 formation. His challenge is to achieve consistency, rather than a few mercurial flashes.

Sinkura may get a reprieve becuase of Williams defection. I'd prefer Stanley waita to start on the left ahead of either Dale Williams - he is slowly getting fitter - or Luke Findley, though Findley offers a bit more aggression and Williams knocks a nicer ball. By contrast, Waita offers a seamless fluidity.

As long as Dave Samson hasn't blown a fuse and also left the camp I'd like to see him at right back. I fear Joe Simpkins is a touch to uncertain and indecisive at right back, but may yet do a job in midfield.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

chris brimblecombe is going to be named as reserve keeper for waikato...he played for wanderers reserves and also when given the chance did very well for the 1st team..great shot stopper and will lean a lot from robinson and dillistone..

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

FYI Bunce will beplayig the the first few games untill Waikato find cover.

Waikato have just signed the Three Kings Keeper as back up to danny robinson - you may remember him from free kick scoring fame.

Waikato are a bit thin in terms of numbers but they are bolstering the squad, with the later start to the season it means there are only half a dozen games befor the transfer window re -opens, this makes it alot easier to bring players in if a club is hit by injuries, and half the season will not have passed.

I think Waikato may turn some heads, a lot of talk about pre season games etc. but I have a feeling Waikato may just be hitting their straps at the right time!

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