Kiwi Players Elsewhere

Kiwis at US Colleges

577 replies · 240,534 views
over 8 years ago

inafoxhole wrote:

Global Game wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

Global Game wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

sucking the country dry

Not many pathways for kiwi kids, bro. Understand why plenty choose it.

how many are choosing it under false pretences? SLASH lets build some local pathways

Such as? ACFC in A league or more quotas for Kiwis in Handy Premiership, as opposed to journeymen from Spain, Ireland, UK? What other ideas do you have?

Also, I don't understand "false pretences" either. Given the minute chances of getting any sort of pro contract, many would think it's smart to get some college education. It's not the only option, but certainly valid. Not really sure what you're getting at it - care to expand?

A, many of these colleges don't offer a decent education, so while they may get a degree, it's not really a career track degree

B, I'm not sure as to the size of this - but how many are going on full scholarships vs how many are going on partials? Earlier chat in this thread suggests many partials, so one of the main potential benefits (free education) disappears

C, wide range of standards. If you're Cory Brown at Xavier, or Sam Brotherton at Wisconsin or Rosie White at UCLA, you're in a fairly well-regarded programme. But look at how many kids are over there and the number who are at tiny liberal arts colleges in the middle of nowhere.

D, can we work with our local (excellent by world standards) universities - Uni of Waikato has Hilary Scholars for example - to give 19yo, 20yo Kiwis similar benefits? Would also need changes to our national league to make it aspirational.

E, it means that where there should be a group of kids coming through and giving NZ a strong national competition, they're going to the US

F, theres heaps of examples of kids who go for one year and don't find it to their liking.  

I believe full scholarships in "soccer" to be extremely rare - the coach has a max of 9.9 (Div 1) full scholarship amounts spread across the whole roster (average size 28 players). I understand 60% is considered very good at a good soccer programme. Conversely, the worse rated the school is educationally or soccer wise they may offer more to a good player to attract them.

Having seen some dialogue with coaches one of the initial questions may well be : "How much can you contribute" or "we need players who can contribute $20k (approx 50%)" 

Just as an example at where soccer ranks revenue wise for a very good programme::

University of Louisville (top 10 soccer ranking) 

Revenue: Basketball $45.6 mio

                US Football $40.6mio

                Soccer $147,779  

Soccer Expenses: $1,494,013 (average per player $10,368 - *not scholarship $'s  but travel,kit etc)

University sticker price: $41,306

Average Athletic Scholarship: $20,230 - All US Football & Basketball are full scholarships  so there will be plenty athletes on zero or partial scholarships

(I calculate across NCAA Div 1 the average athletic(not specifically soccer) scholarship is at approx 32%)

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over 8 years ago

Scott Travis is playing at Iowa Wesleyan, it is a Div III I beleive. They haven't updated their roster for 2017 yet but they kick off the season next weekend http://www.iwtigers.com/sport/0/7.php

I'm an optimistic pessimist. 
I'm positive things will go wrong.
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over 8 years ago

inafoxhole wrote:

Global Game wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

Global Game wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

sucking the country dry

Not many pathways for kiwi kids, bro. Understand why plenty choose it.

how many are choosing it under false pretences? SLASH lets build some local pathways

Such as? ACFC in A league or more quotas for Kiwis in Handy Premiership, as opposed to journeymen from Spain, Ireland, UK? What other ideas do you have?

Also, I don't understand "false pretences" either. Given the minute chances of getting any sort of pro contract, many would think it's smart to get some college education. It's not the only option, but certainly valid. Not really sure what you're getting at it - care to expand?

A, many of these colleges don't offer a decent education, so while they may get a degree, it's not really a career track degree

B, I'm not sure as to the size of this - but how many are going on full scholarships vs how many are going on partials? Earlier chat in this thread suggests many partials, so one of the main potential benefits (free education) disappears

C, wide range of standards. If you're Cory Brown at Xavier, or Sam Brotherton at Wisconsin or Rosie White at UCLA, you're in a fairly well-regarded programme. But look at how many kids are over there and the number who are at tiny liberal arts colleges in the middle of nowhere.

D, can we work with our local (excellent by world standards) universities - Uni of Waikato has Hilary Scholars for example - to give 19yo, 20yo Kiwis similar benefits? Would also need changes to our national league to make it aspirational.

E, it means that where there should be a group of kids coming through and giving NZ a strong national competition, they're going to the US

F, theres heaps of examples of kids who go for one year and don't find it to their liking.  

I believe full scholarships in "soccer" to be extremely rare - the coach has a max of 9.9 (Div 1) full scholarship amounts spread across the whole roster (average size 28 players). I understand 60% is considered very good at a good soccer programme. Conversely, the worse rated the school is educationally or soccer wise they may offer more to a good player to attract them.

Having seen some dialogue with coaches one of the initial questions may well be : "How much can you contribute" or "we need players who can contribute $20k (approx 50%)" 

Just as an example at where soccer ranks revenue wise for a very good programme::

University of Louisville (top 10 soccer ranking) 

Revenue: Basketball $45.6 mio

                US Football $40.6mio

                Soccer $147,779  

Soccer Expenses: $1,494,013 (average per player $10,368 - *not scholarship $'s  but travel,kit etc)

University sticker price: $41,306

Average Athletic Scholarship: $20,230 - All US Football & Basketball are full scholarships  so there will be plenty athletes on zero or partial scholarships

(I calculate across NCAA Div 1 the average athletic(not specifically soccer) scholarship is at approx 32%)

Bingo.

And once you're at that stage, a large chunk of the incentive dissapears.

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over 8 years ago

inafoxhole wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

Global Game wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

Global Game wrote:

inafoxhole wrote:

sucking the country dry

Not many pathways for kiwi kids, bro. Understand why plenty choose it.

how many are choosing it under false pretences? SLASH lets build some local pathways

Such as? ACFC in A league or more quotas for Kiwis in Handy Premiership, as opposed to journeymen from Spain, Ireland, UK? What other ideas do you have?

Also, I don't understand "false pretences" either. Given the minute chances of getting any sort of pro contract, many would think it's smart to get some college education. It's not the only option, but certainly valid. Not really sure what you're getting at it - care to expand?

A, many of these colleges don't offer a decent education, so while they may get a degree, it's not really a career track degree

B, I'm not sure as to the size of this - but how many are going on full scholarships vs how many are going on partials? Earlier chat in this thread suggests many partials, so one of the main potential benefits (free education) disappears

C, wide range of standards. If you're Cory Brown at Xavier, or Sam Brotherton at Wisconsin or Rosie White at UCLA, you're in a fairly well-regarded programme. But look at how many kids are over there and the number who are at tiny liberal arts colleges in the middle of nowhere.

D, can we work with our local (excellent by world standards) universities - Uni of Waikato has Hilary Scholars for example - to give 19yo, 20yo Kiwis similar benefits? Would also need changes to our national league to make it aspirational.

E, it means that where there should be a group of kids coming through and giving NZ a strong national competition, they're going to the US

F, theres heaps of examples of kids who go for one year and don't find it to their liking.  

I believe full scholarships in "soccer" to be extremely rare - the coach has a max of 9.9 (Div 1) full scholarship amounts spread across the whole roster (average size 28 players). I understand 60% is considered very good at a good soccer programme. Conversely, the worse rated the school is educationally or soccer wise they may offer more to a good player to attract them.

Having seen some dialogue with coaches one of the initial questions may well be : "How much can you contribute" or "we need players who can contribute $20k (approx 50%)" 

Just as an example at where soccer ranks revenue wise for a very good programme::

University of Louisville (top 10 soccer ranking) 

Revenue: Basketball $45.6 mio

                US Football $40.6mio

                Soccer $147,779  

Soccer Expenses: $1,494,013 (average per player $10,368 - *not scholarship $'s  but travel,kit etc)

University sticker price: $41,306

Average Athletic Scholarship: $20,230 - All US Football & Basketball are full scholarships  so there will be plenty athletes on zero or partial scholarships

(I calculate across NCAA Div 1 the average athletic(not specifically soccer) scholarship is at approx 32%)

Bingo.

And once you're at that stage, a large chunk of the incentive dissapears.

My opinion on some of the other points....

A/C: Yes, there is a huge diversity in the standard & "value on a CV" that a degree from a particular US (or any!) College may hold. All students know the term used is "student-athlete". The education (should) come first & are advised to ask themselves "would I still go to this college if I couldn't play my sport" ? I'd be surprised if that was true in a lot of cases & believe many "athletes" (not just Kiwi's) attend the/any school that will accept them to enable playing their sport ahead of (perceived) educational "worth" which of course is their right & choice to make.

F: Yes, some come back or transfer within the US . As "student-athletes" they must maintain a 2.0 GPA on their courses to remain eligible to compete & some may well have discounted how hard the academic side is if thinking more about the athletic side ?

Most scholarships are not guaranteed for 4 x years & are renewable annually. If you don't maintain academics, form dips, career ending injury , a new coach doesn't rate you etc - then the scholarship may not be renewed & that's likely a whole chunk of change to find for future years if you want to stay at the college.

There are lots of factors to consider for what makes a "good college" & life experience for someone so each to their own.

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over 8 years ago

First line Rene Aafjes

Raihan Azim is not going back as far as i know.

Also not sure if i missed it but Alex Clark has just started at a new college - was at Bethany, name escapes me of his new college.

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over 8 years ago

chopah wrote:

First line Rene Aafjes

Raihan Azim is not going back as far as i know.

Also not sure if i missed it but Alex Clark has just started at a new college - was at Bethany, name escapes me of his new college.

Fixed that! Thanks. 

Cannot find anything on Alex Clark. 

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over 8 years ago

Are they currently playing or is it the off season?

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over 8 years ago

Just started, college has just started in the USA a few weeks back

I'm an optimistic pessimist. 
I'm positive things will go wrong.
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over 8 years ago

As requested just a couple of US varsity movements for our club in August 17:

Jonty Bilderbeck - California State University Northridge (LA)

Dominic Wooldridge - State University of New York (Albany)

Ihaia Delaney - Lipscomb University (Nashville)

Back in NZ  

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over 8 years ago

chopah wrote:

First line Rene Aafjes

Raihan Azim is not going back as far as i know.

Also not sure if i missed it but Alex Clark has just started at a new college - was at Bethany, name escapes me of his new college.

Fixed that! Thanks. 

Cannot find anything on Alex Clark. 

finally found it - listed as Alexander Clark...

http://www.gculions.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2083&pat...

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over 8 years ago

End of season update: 

Kyle Adams - The Junior led the team in minutes played, helping keep 5 clean sheets 

Joe Bell- The Freshmen started every game. Was named to the ACC All-Freshman team

Cory Brown - The Senior will be a high chance of being drafted and signed in the new year. Earned his third straight First Team All-BIG EAST selection in 2017. Recognized as United Soccer Coaches All-Great Lakes Region Team. 

Elliot Collier - The Senior had a solid final season, with 18 games played, 4 goals and 5 assists. Another to look out for in the draft of overseas. 

Scott Doney - After transferring from Buffalo, Doney banged in 14 goals in 23 games. Another who may be on the USL radar of some teams. 

Stu Holthusen - Another successful Senior, scoring 12 goals in 23 games. Would expect him to be on the radar also. 

Ross McPhie - The Junior has set himself a great platform going into his Senior year, scoring 7 goals and assisting 3 from Midfield in his 22 games this season. 

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over 8 years ago

is it even worth mentioning this like the all great lakes regional team? What does that actually mean? Is it worth the paper it's written on/screen typed on.

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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

Cory Brown named in initial list of 60 NCAA Division I college players invited to the 2018 MLS annual Player Combine in Orlando, from January 11-17, 2018. 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/12/21/mls-invi...

Rounds one and two of the 2018 MLS SuperDraft are scheduled for January 19, 2018.

Rounds three and four of SuperDraft will be held via conference call on January 21, 2018.

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about 8 years ago

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/100385157/new-zealand-defender-cory-brown-to-audition-for-major-league-soccer-contract

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about 8 years ago

Having watched some of the combine Cory Brown has done very well, MLS website also has him as a player whose stock has risen: 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/01/18/mls-comb...

Still questions on what position he would play in the professional game it seems but I don't see a problem with a bit of versatility? He's not predicted to go in the first round of the draft mostly down to being a foreigner, but in guessing he will be a good addition to most sides, maybe Anthony will take a nudge?

All in all what's being said of him is:

Pros: Physical strength, game IQ, passing range

Cons: Speed, attacking support, height 

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about 8 years ago

He isn't the only one who could get picked up tomorrow morning with  Elliot Collier, Stuart Holthusen & Fox Slotemaker all on the list of 220 players. 
Brown is the most likely as he was at the draft, but those 3 all at least have a chance. 
Holthusen is probably the next likely as he has been mentioned in a few mock drafts

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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

Wasn't picked in the 1st 2 rounds this morning.

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about 8 years ago

Any news???? 

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about 8 years ago

JamesBo wrote:

Wasn't picked in the 1st 2 rounds this morning.

                                                                        COYN    

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about 8 years ago

The 3rd and 4th rounds are tomorrow, so still a chance of being picked up.




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about 8 years ago

Rumour has it Cory Brown's interest is still high and is considered to be one of the better players remaining. I think he has trained with Colombus Crew in the past and with them in need of a left back, that option is likely. 

If Elliot Collier is not drafted, Portland Timbers are likely to bring him over to train

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about 8 years ago

Rumour has it Cory Brown's interest is still high and is considered to be one of the better players remaining. I think he has trained with Colombus Crew in the past and with them in need of a left back, that option is likely. 

If Elliot Collier is not drafted, Portland Timbers are likely to bring him over to train

As proven here: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/01/20/clark-lo...

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about 8 years ago

Three kiwis were picked in the third round. Elliott Collier by Chicago Fire, Cory Brown by Vancouver Whitecaps and Stuart Holthusen by Portland Timbers

Rosario Central, the All Whites, Waitakere United and the mighty Phoenix! speaker of engrish

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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

Argie- wrote:

Three kiwis were picked in the third round. Elliott Collier by Chicago Fire, Cory Brown by Vancouver Whitecaps and Stuart Holthusen by Portland Timbers

Great news. But are they full MLS contracts or they effectively now on trial? 

Also interesting that nearly all the kiwis go to Western Conference MLS clubs - Collier now being an exception.

I[quote][/c

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about 8 years ago

coochiee wrote:

Argie- wrote:

Three kiwis were picked in the third round. Elliott Collier by Chicago Fire, Cory Brown by Vancouver Whitecaps and Stuart Holthusen by Portland Timbers

Great news. But are they full MLS contracts or they effectively now on trial? 

Also interesting that nearly all the kiwis go to Western Conference MLS clubs - Collier now being an exception.

MLS draft is basically a glorified trial. If they get signed they will probably be shipped off to the MLS team's NSL affiliates to develop.
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about 8 years ago · edited about 8 years ago · History

Okay thanks.

I think you mean USL affiliate clubs, and nothing wrong with playing a few seasons in that lower tier comp, learning your trade as a pro footballer.

Bevan, Wynne and Musa all scored full MLS contracts after 1-2 seasons in USL.

Hopefully these 3 kids can shine enough, over the next few months, to get fully signed.

Also be interesting to know what Tuiloma’s plans are, re accepting new deal from Portland or not? They must be expecting an answer soon.

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about 8 years ago

coochiee wrote:

Okay thanks.

I think you mean USL affiliate clubs, and nothing wrong with playing a few seasons in that lower tier comp, learning your trade as a pro footballer.

Bevan, Wynne and Musa all scored full MLS contracts after 1-2 seasons in USL.

Hopefully these 3 kids can shine enough, over the next few months, to get fully signed.

Also be interesting to know what Tuiloma’s plans are, re accepting new deal from Portland or not? They must be expecting an answer soon.

I am fairly certain he has. He is listed on their website, while others released at the same time as him aren't, so it's not just a hold over. He also instagram'd about going back to Portland.

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about 8 years ago

Hopefully to the first team and not the reserves.

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about 8 years ago

Reality is NZ had a few All Whites regulars at USL level in 2017: Wynne, Colvey, Tuiloma.

Be great if any of Brown, Holthusen or Collier can get a contract at that level.

Didier Drobga and Shaun Wright-Phillips played USL for Phoenix Rising last year, a team with an average attendance of 6000 (which is what our Phoenix get..)

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about 8 years ago

I wonder what kind of packages they would be on at USL level? bit like imports in the Handy? Living with a bunch of other players, sponsored meals etc?

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about 8 years ago

Collier has just scored for Chicago in a 2-0 win over the South Florida Bulls (football team of the University of South Florida)

Rosario Central, the All Whites, Waitakere United and the mighty Phoenix! speaker of engrish

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about 8 years ago

saw this kid play few years back for futsal whites he must have been 17ish, was hands down best technically on the court... actually probably doesn't say that much. But I liked him in that form. Hopefully kicks on with his current situation.

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about 8 years ago

Sounds like Collier is set to sign a pro contract

Rosario Central, the All Whites, Waitakere United and the mighty Phoenix! speaker of engrish

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about 8 years ago

Any news on Holthusen or Brown?

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