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el grapadura wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:


el grapadura wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:


why put a professional sportsperson in a situation that can damage his career when there is no actual benefit for him?


What, asking a professional sportsperson to do what he does for a living is a situation that can potentially damage his career?

And of course there's a benefit to him, without his international appearances for New Zealand it would have been difficult for him to get a work permit in the UK. Plus, being an international gives him more leverage in contract negotiations, since players with such experience can use it to get higher wages/bonuses than they would have otherwise been able to get without such experience.

 
Right, we are having about 3 different arguements at once, and I'm drunk, so this is getting confusing.
 
Having said that, without his international appearances for New Zealand it would have been difficult for him to get a work permit in the UK??????? He had 4 caps for NZ when he signed for West Ham.  I am sure that was massive for him.



Well, it's a requirement in England when signing non-EU players that they had played in 75% games for their international team in a set period. So those caps he got playing for New Zealand in 2010 certainly helped him a long way to getting the work permit to play in England.
 
does he not have a Danish passport? He had a lot of interest in him from Italian clubs before the WC, so I am assuming that he could have signed for a european club before having to satisfy any criteria by playing games that mean nothing
Woof Woof
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Oh yeah, forgot about his Danish passport. Regardless.

The choice is ultimately his. If he wants to be an international, play in the World Cups and use it for his personal exposure (and you can't deny that his exposure in the footballing world exploded following the World Cup, and at the very least this put him on the West Ham radar), then you have to be prepared to do the hard slog that goes in before that. You can't pick and choose.
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el grapadura wrote:
It's not like he's doing it every month, though, is it? Other internationals at West Ham (which I'm sure Big Sam is aware of, but with him you never know I guess) are off playing internationals pretty much every month of the year, thereby exposing themselves to career ending injuries while poor West Ham has to pay their wages (clearly he's never heard of a thing called insurance).
 
When you are in London, a player having to fly 5 or so hours to play a game is acceptable (or as acceptable as it can be - like you say, players get injured...).  Flying to a game in NZ is very different from other internationals at the club.
 
 
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el grapadura wrote:
Oh yeah, forgot about his Danish passport. Regardless.

The choice is ultimately his. If he wants to be an international, play in the World Cups and use it for his personal exposure (and you can't deny that his exposure in the footballing world exploded following the World Cup, and at the very least this put him on the West Ham radar), then you have to be prepared to do the hard slog that goes in before that. You can't pick and choose.
 
but it is not regardless.
 
Ryan Nelsen picked and chose, and he is an NZ hero. 
Woof Woof
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Yes, but that's offset by the fact that the other players fly their 5-hour round trips much more often that Reid does his 48-hour round trip. So it probably averages about the same (yes, I know I'm being churlish now).

Woof Woof
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Frankie Mac wrote:

el grapadura wrote:
Oh yeah, forgot about his Danish passport. Regardless.

The choice is ultimately his. If he wants to be an international, play in the World Cups and use it for his personal exposure (and you can't deny that his exposure in the footballing world exploded following the World Cup, and at the very least this put him on the West Ham radar), then you have to be prepared to do the hard slog that goes in before that. You can't pick and choose.

�
but it is not regardless.
�
Ryan Nelsen picked and chose, and he is an NZ hero.�


Well, it is regardless, because he still benefited from representing New Zealand at the World Cup.

And Nelsen couldn't do it this time around, even though there were rumours he was planning to. Good to see NZF are starting to grow a spine. We simply can't afford to let players pick and choose if we want to be a serious international team.
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but there is no actual benefit from the NZFA growing a spine.  David Gold said today on twitter (yes, I know...) that Reid may not play again this season, and we have now signed Danny Collins on loan from Stoke.  Reid not playing in the championship does nothing for NZ football, in the same way that had Smith got injured and not playing for Ipswich would not have benefitted NZ (he was lucky that an equally jet-lagged Wood was marking him at corners).
This is how I have always seen the situation:
 
Do NZ players need to play together as often as possible? Yes
 
Should we make these games in NZ - a location that benefits a small (and lets be honest, less important part of our squad)? No
 
Should I have gone to bed an hour ago?  Yes
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Would Phoenix fans be happy if all the NZ players had to fly to the UK for friendlies in every international window, if we could organise games there every FIFA window?
 
I imagine that if SigmUnd flew 24,000 miles, but got injured when he came on in the last 15 minutes of the game after coming on as a pointless sub, things would be viewed slightly different here. 
 
What about if Muscat broke his leg playing a game for Malta vs Cyprus a month before the finals? 
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Woof Woof
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Frankie Mac wrote:


Do NZ players need to play together as often as possible? Yes
�
Should we make these games in NZ - a location that benefits a small (and lets be honest, less important part of our squad)? No
�
Should I have gone to bed an hour ago?� Yes


I certainly don't disagree with any of this (well, not too sure on the last one, but I'll take your word for it).

But we don't really play that many games in New Zealand that this should be a major problem - we had this one now, and Honduras and Paraguay in 2010, that's 3 games (and 2 trips) in 18 months, I don't think that's outrageous. NZF are trying to strike a balance between making it convenient for the majority of the players, and keeping the team in the public eye here in New Zealand.

And of course, Reid's injury could have happened even if this game had been played in London (there was talk of it earlier on), it's not as if the travel was the reason behind the injury.
Woof Woof
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Frankie Mac wrote:


Would Phoenix fans be happy if all the NZ players had�to fly to the UK for friendlies in every international window, if we could organise games there every FIFA window?
�
I imagine that if SigmUnd flew 24,000 miles, but got injured when he came on in the last 15 minutes of the game after coming on as�a pointless sub, things would be viewed slightly different here.�
�
What about if Muscat broke his leg playing a game for Malta vs Cyprus a month before the finals?�


Speaking for myself, I wouldn't have any problem with this, like I said that's the reality of having internationals in the squad.
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Can I just add that another hypothetical way he could have got concussion would be at a West Ham training session during the international break!

This whole thing is a stupid argument. If the reason he missed out on games for WH was because he was tired and jetlagged from the flight and his replacement cemented a place this whole "he shouldn't have played a meaningless friendly" position would makes sense. However the reason he is not playing is because he sustained an injury and players get injured in training all the time so the match has nothing to do with it IMHO
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Winston out today with that concussion, West Ham draw 1 all.
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still no sign of our Winnie on the pitch or on the bench for West Ham today.  Danny Collins starting at centre back
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Bloody head injury, Hammers are missing him, now third
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not featured in today's game either. Anyone got any idea when he's due back?
WeeNix
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How about next game, they could do with him.
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I was at the game last night, and Winston Reid is not what we were missing.
 
Our first choice centre back is playing in centre midfield (Tompkins) while Faye was MOM and Danny Collins played well.  This means that Our Winnie has gone from 2nd choice centre back, to 4th choice.  Even if he is fit again, I think we will struggle to see him on the bench again this season, let alone playing.
 
Massive shame for the lad, as we are looking like we will go into the play-offs (despite Reading's slip up last night, they are in a great run of form, and playing well, while we are mince at the moment).  There is a strong possibility that he will miss out on a game at Wembley, which I guess would have made him the first kiwi to play a competitive game there (Killen played for Celtic in a friendly).
Still Believin'
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West Ham lost 4- 2 to Reading and are 4 points back in third.

Winston is back in full training now. Despite what Frankie said above, you have to wonder if Sam will put him in straight back in, they have been on a poor run since he was injured.
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yesterday aside, we are ok defensively - the problem has been going forward.  I would suggest that now he is back, Our Winnie would be 4th choice centre back
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Big Sam is still going on about the injury Reid got here and the effect it has had on their season. Seems that Reid may be close to playing again.

"It was about keeping the back four together. We had Winston Reid in the most consistent form of his life, he ridiculously flies all the way to New Zealand and gets himself out of that position. Danny Collins has filled in brilliantly, but it wasn't something we wanted to do.

"Faye and Reid were striking up this partnership together with James Tomkins sitting in front of them in midfield, because he was a great replacement for Papa in that position. All the questions you get, the opinions, was it is because Tomkins is playing in midfield and he is a centre half and shouldn't be playing there and all that b******* is flying around.

"What happens is that I look at the performance of every player and just say 'You are talking b******* because that is not the case'. Tomkins has done a great job in midfield; as good as Papa Bouba Diop and as good as any of our midfield in that specific role, because he [Tomkins] is a talented, talented player.

"In terms of that his restrictions are far greater at centre-half, you can take fewer chances, but being that one in front, his skills, he can take the chances that little bit more. He has been magnificent and has been able to handle that extremely well and is the reason why he has continued to play there, because he has done so well.

"That is the b******* that is put about, because we had our most productive time of the season, playing with ten men, with James Tomkins playing centre midfield role in a two, beating Millwall 2-1, drawing with Southampton 1-1 and beating Blackpool 4-1."

Further good news was provided by the possible selection options the manager has ahead of Barnsley, with the returning trio of Reid, Demel and Diop providing competition for places. Although Joey O'Brien and Mark Noble could miss the match, the latter's injury is not as bad as first feared and he should be back sooner than first expected.

"We are still waiting for news on Mark Noble as he came off injured on Saturday. Joey O'Brien didn't make the game so we are waiting on him as well. Earlier on in the week we thought George McCartney had broken a metatarsal but it was only bruising so that's good news.

"We played QPR beyond closed doors on Tuesday and we are thankful to QPR for that as it gave Winston Reid, Papa Bouba Diop and Guy Demel a chance to regain some match fitness ahead of the run in.

"They could be available again for the weekend which would be a useful boost to the squad numbers for what is a very important two games in the space of four days. The squad will be used to its full extent with such a short space of time between the games.

"Hopefully on Friday we can continue to do what we have done consistently all season and that's winning away from home."

A win against Barnsley could see the Hammers close the gap to second-placed Reading to one point and while there is a chance to still go up automatically, Big Sam said everyone at the club must remain focused on promotion with the chance that either the Royals or Southampton slip up.

"It's unlikely that ourselves that Reading, Southampton and ourselves will all win the next six as Reading and Southampton still have to play each other! In terms of what we've got to achieve, there's nothing more important than trying to win the next game.

"We need to focus on Barnsley and me picking the best team to try and beat Barnsley on the way they play and the squad they've got. However if we win, it may be necessary to make one or two changes."

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"It's unlikely that Reading, Southampton and ourselves will all win the next six as Reading and Southampton still have to play each other!"
 
Knows his football does Big Sam
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reid comes back west hame win, dam he is good
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He got lots of praise for his play today

"The Kiwi has been steady as a rock on his return from injury.

Winston Reid wins another header. He has been imperious today. When players
return and play like he has today, you realise how much of a difference
they could have made if they hadn't got injured. Reid, of course, was
hurt about a month ago on international duty with New Zealand."hepatitis2012-04-16 10:27:44
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Full 90 in West Ham's demolition of Brighton today. 6-0 with a hat trick from Portuguese Vaz Te
WeeNix
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Lets hope Woods gets given his normal place on the bench at Bristol City on Tuesday. Hate to see Reid do a Manny.
 
Also hope Bristol get relegated. Serve them right for not playing Wood.
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uiron wrote:
Lets hope Woods gets given his normal place on the bench at Bristol City on Tuesday. Hate to see Reid do a Manny.
 
Also hope Bristol get relegated. Serve them right for not playing Wood.


Bristol started Wood and he played the full game in a 2 all draw. They are inching away from relegation. So maybe we will see Chris and Winston battle on Tuesday


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hepatitis wrote:
He got lots of praise for his play today <span style="font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black;"> </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">"The Kiwi has been steady as a rock on his return from injury.</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Winston
Reid wins another header. He has been imperious today. When players
return and play like he has today, you realise how much of a difference
they could have made if they hadn't got injured. Reid, of course, was
hurt about a month ago on international duty with New Zealand.</span>"< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332/netdefender/hui/ndhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">



Seriously, how many times does the coach need to explain that he was injured playing for New Zealand like it's our fault?
Legend
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perhaps the <> could coach him not to tackle with his head...

Tommy comes here and goes back and scores a goal...

edit: ok with Hepatitis below...but still seem like colonialist stuff- an England game is ok, but for a game in the colonies...martinb2012-04-16 13:28:28
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Luis Garcia wrote:
hepatitis wrote:
He got lots of praise for his play today"The Kiwi has been steady as a rock on his return from injury.
Winston Reid wins another header. He has been imperious today. When players return and play like he has today, you realise how much of a difference they could have made if they hadn't got injured. Reid, of course, was hurt about a month ago on international duty with New Zealand."<



Seriously, how many times does the coach need to explain that he was injured playing for New Zealand like it's our fault?


Actually that was in the match commentary, not from the coach.
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Bristol 1 v Hammers 1
Tuesday night game
 
Was All White v All White with both Wood and Reid playing the full 90.
 
 
"City were instantly resurgent and Chris Wood came close to putting them in front with a low shot that had Green scrambling across his goal."
Winston Reid had a good chance to score but got the ball stuck under his feet in the penalty box.
A useful point to help BCFC stay above the relegation spots.
Not much help for the Hammers to get automatic promotion...
 
Player ratings here:
 
REID UP FOR HAMMER OF THE YEAR:
 
"Every year West Ham fans have the opportunity to choose the player they believe has been consistently the best player for West Ham throughout the season. A tradition dated back to 1958, the Hammer of the Year is an important end of the season ceremony for many West Ham fans. This article will look at the top five candidates for this prestige award for the season 2011-2012:
 
 

ANYONE CAN VOTE FOR HAMMER OF THE YEAR here on the official West Ham website:

(no need to register etc.)

Also Reid's great goal v Millwall 4/2/12 is up for "Goal of the Season":

http://www.whufc.com/page/AwardsSurvey2012/0,,12562~2694183,00.html

Winner announced at Awards Ceremony April 30.

 
 
 
Big Pete 652012-04-19 02:45:59
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maybe we should all spam the votes and get him the award...
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Scored an equaliser this morning against leicester city.  Can't find the result of the match as yet.

Edit - Hammers won http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17724582
  George Costanza2012-04-24 08:58:55
Appiah without the pace
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Still a chance of automatic playoff with one game left this weekend.
Woof Woof
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Bit of a long-shot though, they need Southampton to lose at home to Coventry who have already been relegated. Alternatively, if Southampton draw, West Ham would have to beat Hull by 4+ goals. Both seem pretty unlikely to me, but you never know.
WeeNix
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Promotion is gained on points, then goal difference, then goals for.
If WestHam win 3 - 0 and Southampton draw 1-1 this is how it will look
                      F       A        DIF       PTS
Southampton   82     47       25         86
West Ham       82     47       25         86
 
Scrap the playoffs. We have a winner(ston) 
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Frankie Mac wrote:


yesterday aside, we are ok defensively - the problem has been going forward.� I would suggest that now he is back, Our Winnie would be 4th choice centre back


So much for 4th choice Frankie. BFS rates him and even your begrudging, "I only have eyes for tomkins" mates on KUMB have had to swallow their pride and admit Winston's got game.

Be nice to see them get lucky next week and somehow get auto promo, but figure you are also partial to a day at wembley. Will have to find a stream if they make the playoffs final.

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