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Away day successes for Wellington Phoenix haven't exactly been a regular occurrence during their six year history - indeed, (as many fans will probably be able to quote off the top of their heads), the 'Nix have won only 18 of their 86 games in Australia.

So the 3-1 win over Western Sydney Wanderers must go down as one of their best-ever on the road, particularly as Ernie Merrick's team trailed with just a quarter of the game remaining.

Such wins not only bring pleasure to Phoenix supporters, they also serve as a timely reminder to fans in Australia what a New Zealand team can bring to the competition. They also silence - briefly - the periodic cries across the Tasman that the 'Nix should be ditched from the A-League, in favour of an all-Australian league.

I've never subscribed to that theory.

Not only do Australia and New Zealand have a long history of shared competition at domestic level - in Rugby Union, League and Basketball, to name but three other sports - but Australians do sometimes forget that as the "big brother" in the relationship, they are doing a sterling job in helping the development of football.

Lest we forget, the Phoenix are not just the only professional football club in New Zealand, but Oceania too. Australia should remember only too well the difficulties faced by countries in that region, so, after reaching out to Asia for assistance to develop their own game, it should be only natural they do their bit elsewhere in return.

In fact, far from severing ties with New Zealand, I'd be seeking to bolster them.

Firstly, it's good news that Wellington will be allowed into the new FFA Cup starting later this year, especially after plenty would have preferred them excluded.

But a comment by Ernie Merrick in the post-game press conference in Parramatta served as a stark reminder of the problems the Phoenix face in trying to stay competitive.

Merrick re-iterated that developing Kiwi youngsters was no easy task, given the lack of a team in the Australian National Youth League.

That door has remained firmly closed to Wellington since their admittance into the senior competition in 2007. Finances are probably the main reason - but if the 'Nix can find a way to subsidise the Australian end of things, then surely it's an option worth pursuing again?

Team Wellington offers one path for youngsters through the domestic ASB Premiership, but with only 14 regular season games, developing players need more competitive matches.

The kind of experience on offer in the NYL would be invaluable for the sort of players Merrick is trying to introduce into his senior squad. As we saw in Parramatta, Matthew Ridenton, Tyler Boyd and Louis Fenton, along with others such as Alex Rufer and Luke Adams, wouldn't struggle to compete.

The clubs current injury situation also shows just how crucial having a good pool of youngsters to draw on can actually be. League leaders Brisbane have had similar woes, but have been able to draft in the likes of Donachie, Yeboah, Acton, Borrello and Theodore, all of whom have seen significant NYL action.

A stronger development path for Kiwi youngsters would also eventually strengthen the A-League. With no immediate plans for expansion by FFA, their focus (in their own words), is on ensuring the competitiveness of the existing competition.

One way they can do that is by allowing the 'Nix to compete in the NYL. The only question remaining is the money, on which note, larger crowds at the Cake Tin would certainly help swell the coffers at Phoenix HQ.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/wellingtonphoenix/hill-opinion-display/Wellington-Phoenix-Away-Success/82494
Cock
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Marquee
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That's a positive statement from Simon Hill.

I am not sure we'd ever be in a position to have a NYL team travelling across Tasman - but if I recall there was a banter about having a youth team based in Canberra??? Or sth like that.   Another option is simply to ensure the youth team travels with the senior team for the same fixture and plays its opposition youth team at the same venue?  I may be wrong (heck it is Friday evening).

Marquee
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over 13 years

How does the Warriors reserve team work?

Marquee
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Pretty sure NYL fixtures don't match HAL.
The 10th team is AIS (based in Canberra) and as the Institute of Sport is one of the key development pathways for U17 Socceroos, unlikely that Aussie will give that spot up. Best opportunity for Nix Youth might be if an A league (and it's NYL team) fall over, without replacement franchise ready to go straight away.

Legend
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Ryan wrote:

How does the Warriors reserve team work?


There's a couple of them.
No research here, just off the top of my head, so feel free to correct me anyone...
Firstly there's the U20s comp, which is really good to watch. Mainly because there's craploads of talented kids and no one can tackle to save themselves. No older players allowed like the EPL U21s or anything like that, purely U20s. I think all NRL clubs have an 20s team. The draw is aligned as closely as possible with the NRL from what I've seen - the Warriors 20s almost always play right before the senior side, they even try to match it up as best they can during the playoffs. 
Then there's also the 'feeder' comps - two I know of, the NSW Cup and the Queensland Cup. Some clubs like Newcastle, Manly, Penrith and others have straight up reserve sides, while others have feeder clubs (eg Auckland Vulcans for the Warriors, playing in the NSW cup) which are essentially reserve sides but are clubs in their own right as well I think. No idea if they have separate clubrooms or whatever... I think the draw is done with the NRL in mind there too, because quite regularly on Sundays you can watch all 3 warriors sides play back to back at Mt Smart.
U20s were the heavy focus for the warriors development for a while, and we are very successful at that level - 2 titles and 3 grand finals in the last 4 years. However Elliott has now come in and said he views the Vulcans as a better stepping stone as he thinks players should be more 'battle hardened', rather than only the helter skelter entertainment of the 20s. 
The 20s set-up is very attractive to NZ school-leavers. The Warriors have actively recruited promising young rugby players and have had substantial success with that approach. That says a lot as the rugby system in NZ is very good as well, so the 20s must be very attractive to convince guys like Hurrell and Laumape to switch over. 
I guess they get to travel and play in Australia rather than just playing provincial rugby as the next step, they get to train and liaise more closely with the senior players, and in recent years a lot of guys out of the successful 20s sides have been given good opportunities in the senior side, at a pretty early age considering the importance of physical bulk in rugby league - I'm talking guys like Johnson, Hurrell, Laumape, Fisiahi, Locke, Godinet, Henry, Tuimavave, Taylor, the Lousi brothers etc etc. Although some of those obviously didn't lack in bulk at a young age though!
The warriors system works very very well and there's a great talent pool going on there. Quite a few kiwis and other very good NRL players have come through at the warriors.
Cock
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I believe the Warriors have taken over the Vulcans. I saw something announced late last year?

Legend
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That's an interesting development. Just looked up their wikipedia page and yes, the vulcans will be replaced by a proper Warriors reserve side in the NSW cup, starting this year;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Vulcans


Guessing that could've been at Elliott's insistence given his desire to use that as the primary pathway rather than the 20s

Cock
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I think it read that ARL transferred their 'shares' in the team to the Warriors. I'm not sure if it's a good move or not. Someone more league informed can help me out.

Marquee
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Global Game wrote:

Pretty sure NYL fixtures don't match HAL.
The 10th team is AIS (based in Canberra) and as the Institute of Sport is one of the key development pathways for U17 Socceroos, unlikely that Aussie will give that spot up. Best opportunity for Nix Youth might be if an A league (and it's NYL team) fall over, without replacement franchise ready to go straight away.

I read somewhere recently that the NYL was going to get one or two new teams soon as well, one of which was North Queensland based and the other I think might have been Wooloongong (sp?). So I don't think the Nix would have to rely on an A League team failing to get a team in it. I think it would have to be Aussie based though just to save money. Maybe there's a chance we could hook up with a club in the NSWPL or VPL side and use their ground and facilities in exchange for a bit of cash or something. Only problem is that the young 'uns couldn't train with the senior squad but at least if they were based in Sydney or Melbourne the senior team and coaching staff would be over there a couple of times a year at least.
Marquee
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just had a quick search and it was a rumour about NYL expansion on Facebook, uncredited. So I might be completely full of shit

 

Marquee
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Couple of points if I may:

1. Given the strengths of the game in Aussie (league) and NZ (rugby), both codes can do pretty much whatever the hell they want with their local competitions - and invite teams from both countries to play, as they see fit. The NZRFU will be shit scared of the South Africans hooking up with Europe, there will be some heavy pressure going down on that one at present.

2. Big difference for football is we and Aussie are minnows, and we are in different confederations - AND we have FIFA laws around the make up of club leagues and player movements. 

3. Whilst the idea of sending Phoenix youth players 'on loan' to Aussie NYL teams has some appeal, those teams have a player limits, ie they are set up to develop Aussie players and so only 2 import spots per team. Those spots usually go to African, Asian, South American or European kids who have not got Aussie citizenship. So unless the Phoenix youth players have Aussie passports, no chance; and even if they do (Alex Rufer i think?) there are hundreds of Aussie A league wannabes chasing the same spots, so it's tough. As to VPL/NSWPL clubs, they're only semi-pro and - in my opinion - generally don't have the set-up/environment that we'd want young players heading into.

Which leaves us with only 2 realistic options: sort something out with ASB/Youth for 14 weeks a year (shite option); or find the money and do the politics to gain entry into NYL as fully fledged Phoenix Youth.


Seb
WeeNix
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520
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almost 11 years
Global Game wrote:
 

3. Whilst the idea of sending Phoenix youth players 'on loan' to Aussie NYL teams has some appeal, those teams have a player limits, ie they are set up to develop Aussie players and so only 2 import spots per team. Those spots usually go to African, Asian, South American or European kids who have not got Aussie citizenship. So unless the Phoenix youth players have Aussie passports, no chance; and even if they do (Alex Rufer i think?) there are hundreds of Aussie A league wannabes chasing the same spots, so it's tough. As to VPL/NSWPL clubs, they're only semi-pro and - in my opinion - generally don't have the set-up/environment that we'd want young players heading into.

Which leaves us with only 2 realistic options: sort something out with ASB/Youth for 14 weeks a year (shite option); or find the money and do the politics to gain entry into NYL as fully fledged Phoenix Youth.



Why would any Australian youth team want to develop players that they don't even own? I've never heard of youth teams loaning players..
Marquee
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over 13 years
Seb wrote:
Global Game wrote:
 

3. Whilst the idea of sending Phoenix youth players 'on loan' to Aussie NYL teams has some appeal, those teams have a player limits, ie they are set up to develop Aussie players and so only 2 import spots per team. Those spots usually go to African, Asian, South American or European kids who have not got Aussie citizenship. So unless the Phoenix youth players have Aussie passports, no chance; and even if they do (Alex Rufer i think?) there are hundreds of Aussie A league wannabes chasing the same spots, so it's tough. As to VPL/NSWPL clubs, they're only semi-pro and - in my opinion - generally don't have the set-up/environment that we'd want young players heading into.

Which leaves us with only 2 realistic options: sort something out with ASB/Youth for 14 weeks a year (shite option); or find the money and do the politics to gain entry into NYL as fully fledged Phoenix Youth.



Why would any Australian youth team want to develop players that they don't even own? I've never heard of youth teams loaning players..



Of course they wouldn't! I was just replying to Conan's suggestion.
Marquee
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I never suggested that though?  I was suggesting a Nix academy based in Sydney or Melbourne but using a state-league side's facilities

Marquee
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I never suggested that though?  I was suggesting a Nix academy based in Sydney or Melbourne but using a state-league side's facilities


Ok, sorry Conan. Not sure i see the sense in that though - state league set-up isn't pro environment; and cost would be even more prohibitive than sending a team across the ditch for games. Where is the benefit?
Trialist
15
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38
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about 10 years

The Malaysian U23 squad is playing in the Queensland NPL. If Phoenix can't join the NYL something similar might be an option?

Surely one of the state federations would do a deal??


ETA

Thinking more about it, maybe Tasmania might jump at the chance to host a Nix youth side in their league. It might help to generate a bit of interest down there. Could even include a one off game each year - Phoenix youth vs Tasmania youth - play for the "Island trophy" or something...

Tassie federation might even chip in some coin??

Appiah without the pace
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almost 17 years

We can. We just have to pay for it.

Marquee
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Global Game wrote:

I never suggested that though?  I was suggesting a Nix academy based in Sydney or Melbourne but using a state-league side's facilities


Ok, sorry Conan. Not sure i see the sense in that though - state league set-up isn't pro environment; and cost would be even more prohibitive than sending a team across the ditch for games. Where is the benefit?
Sorry for the late reply to this but I forgot about this thread. I don't think it would be more expensive to base a team in Aus if they were bulleted with a local side than it would be to fly them back and forth for games, hence the suggestion.

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