Democalypse 2017 - The Election Thread

The world those NZ first supporters want sounds so boring.

And he'll still decide who forms the next Government.

Lol at NZ. 

I like Ron Marks, I like some of what Winston is trying to achieve - the updated version of the Super Card which actually introduced for example, but......

Winston has always promised so much and not delivered. He lost his credibility to me with the Wine Box. All he had to do was tell the press which pages to turn to for the evidence. That is all they wanted and that was all I wanted as a voter. Point me to it.

But no, he saw a chance to "milk it" for all it was worth and kept saying to read it and you will find it. Just point to which pages FFS. 

Winston missed his best chance with that and over the years it appears he has never learned from it as he continues along the same vein and then sues anyone whom queries it.

I'm still tipping a change of Government

Peters hatred of 3 or 4 National front benchers will see him with Labour(lite)

hope your right re change of government, but Winston will go with whoever offers him the best deal for him - He hated Jim Bolger but still went into collation with him

IBTL.

Didn't he say that he'll go with whatever party has the most votes? We could be in a scenario where National is in government by getting a couple of percent more than labor despite the fact that the two major parties on the political left get more votes combined.

He has removed himself from that particular claim. 

It's happening..

                                                      Freeway Split

looked like someone was giving Double Dipton some Oral Encouragment on the Bus if 3News footage is accurate.

Locking to adhere to electoral laws. Will be promptly unlocked at 7pm.

And re-opened.

Looks like another three years of stagnation at this stage.

That is not the case. The economy advanced .8 % in the second quarter of this year. 

Better the devil you know.

Probably, although most of the growth is because of an increase in population not productivity, I doubt wages are increasing much.

The main problem that I have is that Bill flatly refused to address automation which Jacinda had a lot of policy to preempt. If we wait three years before we start thinking about how we're going to fund education so that people can change careers more often and then eventually a UBI and earlier retirement age, then we could miss the window of change and a lot of people will feel the hurt.

The good thing is that a resurgent left has meant that National have had to promise a lot of good policies. I just worry that while Bill seems like a competent man he's proven time and time again that he's a liar. He's also very conservative and there are a lot of important bills which need to pass through parliament in the next three years including removing abortion from the criminal act so that it's a health issue and not a criminal one, leagalising euthanasia, and removing prohibition on Marijuana. A Bill English led government is likely to be opposed to all of these (despite every other major party and the bulk of New Zealanders supporting them.)

Still, three years of National is not the end of the world, I just hope they don't have to pander too much to NZ First.

Labour and the Nix. Perennial perennial strugglers.  Though that is still true for Liverpool

Thanks for the thread. I thought we all did well and not resort to name calling. roll on three years although accordinv to some, the world was meant to end yesterday. 

Has the left actually been resurgent? 

Labour has definitely, but primarily at the expense of the Greens and possibly NZ First  based on Party vote. They have taken the three seats of Dunne and the Maori Party and it is the loss of the Maori party that has stopped National from being able to form a Govt.

given where it was 8 weeks ago - yes

and only if you call a Labour a "left" party.

Think they threw that claim away 30 something years ago. 

The left has really come to mean something different from left wing, in modern day politics the left kind of just means sane.

Depending on special votes, which tend to be more left, National will be down a couple of percent, Conservatives are down a couple of percent, and Act down half a percent. So that looks to be a 5 point swing away from right parties. 

Well, even National is left wing by international standards. So the swing hasn't been to the left per se but against the incumbent coalition that has been around for the last couple of terms. 

The vote was clearly for change even if that change is a National and NZ First coalition rather than a National and Act and United Future and Māori party coalition.

It is. (My cynical hat would say it wouldn't be that high if Joyce and English hadn't lied outta their ass over the final week or so).

This popped up on my timeline just now. It's a little weird how cyclical it seems to be in the last 20 years. So there seems to be a time of trend towards the centre left so which, assuming that continues, National will need to do undertake more "left policies" to try retain power in 2020. Already saw a bit of that during the elections, such as Paid Parental Leave.

Centre right (Nat+Act+UF+Cons)

2008: 49.45%

2011: 48.98%

2014: 51.92%

2017: 46.86%, will come down further with specials.

— Greg Robins (@gregjrobins) September 24, 2017

Probably the only area that it remains remotely Conservative is in areas such as Euthenasia , Abortion etc. 

I explained to my family about Nationals lies and also how Bill English has been caught lying over and over again. That didn't sway them as they didn't "want extra tax on hard working folk in order to give hand outs to free loaders". Unfortunately even intelligent, thoughtful, and reasonable people succumb to years of tribal conditioning.

You are certainly not biased.

Possibly, but when you've got an orange man dragging the world into a nuclear conflict then he's got a point. 

Once a nuke hits Japan ?

Military intervention is absolutely last resort, Seoul and Tokyo are both in range of conventional weapons.

What your absolutely don't do is taunt the unstable military dictator who has the lives of tens of millions in his hands through social media.

Also threatening is the worst way to negotiate you either are forced to act and screw up the world or you back down and your threats lose any credibility.

Trump has put the US and the world in a lose lose position. Art of the deal? Ha!

People thought a deal with Iran was impossible but they managed it, trump is supposed to be the deal maker isn't he?

Guam is target number one for the little nutter.