I disagree. Kill all the cats. I don't really disagree but I do think people have far to much liberty to own cats, drive cars and breed and without justification nor thorough forethought nor consideration of wider consequences, global resources, and wild life. Although I challenge any of you to justify your ownership of a cat without recourse to your own selfish desires. How much do you spend on your cat? How many humans or other animals could these funds save? How much climate research could be done with the national cat food surplus? Just how bad would the consequences of cat ownership have to be for you to say "no more kitties"?
Not sure if you're taking the piss or not, so apologies if you are but you clearly own a computer and have an internet connection and spend time following a football team with a shirt sponsor and a kit manufacturer who utilise 3rd world slave labour and because of the globalised production processes add massively to carbon footprints as various parts and finished products are shipped across the globe. And you do these things for purely selfish reasons. You could devote all your free time to charity, live in the cheapest house possible, eat the cheapest food possible, never buy any consumer electronics, dress purely in the cheapest opshop clothes, and donate all your excess cash to worthy causes but I think it's safe to assume you don't. How much of your (or anyone's) behaviour and lifestyle is not driven primarily by selfish desires?
I disagree. Kill all the cats.
I don't really disagree but I do think people have far to much liberty to own cats, drive cars and breed and without justification nor thorough forethought nor consideration of wider consequences, global resources, and wild life.
Although I challenge any of you to justify your ownership of a cat without recourse to your own selfish desires.
How much do you spend on your cat? How many humans or other animals could these funds save? How much climate research could be done with the national cat food surplus?
Just how bad would the consequences of cat ownership have to be for you to say "no more kitties"?
Not sure if you're taking the piss or not, so apologies if you are but you clearly own a computer and have an internet connection and spend time following a football team with a shirt sponsor and a kit manufacturer who utilise 3rd world slave labour and because of the globalised production processes add massively to carbon footprints as various parts and finished products are shipped across the globe. And you do these things for purely selfish reasons. You could devote all your free time to charity, live in the cheapest house possible, eat the cheapest food possible, never buy any consumer electronics, dress purely in the cheapest opshop clothes, and donate all your excess cash to worthy causes but I think it's safe to assume you don't. How much of your (or anyone's) behaviour and lifestyle is not driven primarily by selfish desires?
Yes owning a cat is selfish but that's no reason to throw it anyone's face unless you don't ever do anything selfish yourself.
Ditto for Gareth Morgan - he's got plenty of spare cash. Why buy a football club if the plight of native birds worries you so much? Why not live in a 2 bedroom unit in a small beach town where property is dirt cheap and donate all that money to programmes to de-sex cats and trap predators in native bush to save the birds?
Also why are we trying to save native birds? Does every species deserve to be kept alive for ever? Because species compete for resources and when they are in an environment where they are at a comparative disadvantage in terms of being able to reproduce and have their young reach breeding age themselves, then they eventually go extinct. Humans are just another species and we have a comparative advantage. Slow flightless birds have a comparative disadvantage. Homo sapiens ability to make the most of its environment to ensure the survival of its young is why we are here. Yes we have wiped out heaps of species but we have helped others, like cats (and cows, sheep, dogs, horses, rats, pigeons, seagulls, sparrows, mice etc). Other periods of time where there have been mass extinctions have allowed for a whole new range of species to emerge once they are gone. If humans eventually poison the planet to a point where we can't survive on it then life will just evolve new forms from whatever survives. Even in the incredibly unlikely event that we wiped out all life on earth right down to those bacteria that live in rocks a kilometre down, then we are only doing what the sun would have done in a few billion years anyway when it turns into a red giant and burns our inconsequential little rock into a crisp anyway.
I'm all for keeping species in zoos and predator free zones like Zealandia so we can admire the richness of life which the evolutionary process has thrown up but surely even that is just selfish. Selfish for me and selfish for my species seeing as they are the only ones who will be aware other species used to exist. I bet my cat never wonders what it would have been like to see a dinosaur...
I'm only half serious. Wanted to see if anyone would try to justify owning a cat objectively. The cat question stems from my assertion that one cannot justify breeding. More importantly people don't feel they need to. As in the cat case people seem to think their existence and desires warrant further drain on the ecological economy irrespective of consequence or reason.
I don't deny my own selfishness, I must acknowledge it in order to overcome it. I actually do many the things you describe, partially out of poverty, partially out of philosophy. My highest aim in life is to own some land I can feasibly live off sustainably. I treat unselfishness like the moral concept of Dharma, a standard which is unattainable but should be sought after.
I'm just trying to challenge some belief systems <smiley>. If one thinks about it and realizes that they have no justification for their cat ownership perhaps they will think about their other beliefs and so on. Maybe question some important things.
In addition it is interesting to note that one can provide some selfless/unselfish justifications for things, I own a computer so that I may access knowledge to enrich myself for the ultimate goal of enriching others (teaching), or I attend football games for the benefit of my family unit and our health of our relationships and selves (obviously I also enjoy them very much). Or even I own a cat for the benefit of my children to learn animal husbandry and have greater care for animals and the environment ect to create a better human being than myself. These usually don't hold up to much scrutiny but they are justifications, if weak ones.
As for the last part and environmentalism in general I will only say that just because the world/nature/reality/the heaven and earth are harsh/impartial/indifferent to all things doesn't mean we need be and that I feel there is some inherent/innate "good" in biodiversity and a healthy ecosystem and for the time being (until we master terraforming perhaps?) that means conservation.
Cheers for the reply, I was hoping I'd get something that good <wink>