Things that make you go hmmmm

Ha, by your logic I’m about to lose my mod position for disagreeing (yay, less work for me). People have different opinions, it’s fine. 

So basically Caroline aren't really interested in True Diversity at all then because they value some demographics more than others, quite the opposite of diversity in fact.

Why are Caroline not being honest with us? Is this duplicity and deception or just badly thought out reactionary politics?

They aren't going to turn old white men away from their bar, they just know their target market. All successful bars have their targets, trying to cater for every single person that exists is just going to end up with a bar that nobody loves.

Where did Caroline try and be dishonest? They came out and clarified their position in the article?

FWIW - If their policy was that they refused every single all-male band, I'd be more on your side here. But that's not the policy they have.

I would prefer  you Tegal. 

But watch your back

Bands die really quickly if they don't actually get an opportunity to perform on stage. 

All sorts of bands that made it cite playing live as being instrumental in their technical improvement. 

If there was a glut of bands of all types of diversity knocking at the doors of Wellington venues who could n't get gigs then I'd understand the policy and that should have been mentioned. There isn't and it is wasn't.

So yes I think it's pc bullshark to be honest.

Essentially the event manager should have said "Can''t book you for this event as we are trying top get more women to perform at it. Of course we will look at booking you soon".

No instead she came out with a pretty snide comment that the band was part of the problem just because they are guys.  A great  way to encourage diversity. 

What is this snide comment you mention? All I see in the article is an explanation of their booking policy?

Historically male adolescent's struggled to express themselves so they did it via sports or music this is because they are bought up in the traditional male role. Females have larger social networks and thus don't necessarily need a tool such as forming a band or joining a sports team to express themselves.

Traditional roles are changing , music is changing too. 

I agree this venue could do well to have some open nights for young women to speak with, jam with established female musicians. A much more community focused method of encouraging participation that doesn't involve some weird gender partition. 

 This venue could also act as a networking hub to increase access to instruments, technology, practice rooms. Something you don't do stopping people from playing. 

Caroline event manager Emi Pogoni replied: "It's just our policy to encourage diversity in the music industry. If you can't or won't, then we don't need to book you."

So basically fudge off then because unless you radically change your line up, say dump one of your mates you're not welcome here. 

It's clear people go into an article looking to be offended and cherry pick what they read to back up their agenda. Happens when reading posts as well.

It's impossible to deal with people who are so emotional and I vote we stop this as it just goes in circles and has been the same argument for weeks. Pretty soon it will devolve into name calling, posts will get removed, it will stop and then some other article will appear that will rile up the perpetually offended anti "pc" brigade.

Rince, repeat.

To quote one of our more well-reasoned posters, stop your bullshark PC wankery Ryan! ?

Maybe it is being mentioned again because people are sick of being told what others find offensive. 

Surely the approach taken by Caroline’s is sexist? You can’t discriminate, on the basis of someone’s sex, in the workplace, so how is this acceptable in the entertainment industry?

Once again the “Old White Male” card has been played. 

Once again Ageist, rascist, & sexist. (Apparently ok though if it fits your PC narrative! FFS! )

Once again, they aren't discriminating against anyone. They have a policy that one song features a non male in any capacity in the entire night. That band could have simply played a different night.

But, as I said, the problem isn't so much the debate it's people reading what they want even if it's not actually written anywhere. I guess they call that "reading between the lines."

This also isn't about what people find offensive, that was a previous discussion, this is about trying to make things fair - because the free market has failed.

Well, the band who got turned down were discriminated against because of their gender. But the policy is a pretty tame one, so I’m not exactly outraged about it. 

There are much better ways to create diversity, than simply forcing it. Policies like this do more harm than good, and really does just seem like tokenism, or a gimmick for the venue so they stand out. 

Like what?

In all seriousness the venue was doing them a favor, when I was seventeen I too was in a terrible metal band and would have jumped at any excuse to talk to the opposite sex, because when you're in a metal band there isn't too many of those excuses.

Speak for yourself

I know plenty of young guys in metal bands who have no problems "interacting" the ladies :D

I was being facetious.

No doubt.

This thread.

They're not as important as the Old White Males think they are

? People being offended by rules from a venue that they probably don't even go to ?

Young fellas showing no respect to old white fellas in a society that has become a "it's all about me only" society. 

Unsure if this aimed at me or not, but I absolutely respect you Gunman. We have differing opinions on some things and are both happy to discuss those on platforms like this, but that doesn't mean that I don't have respect for you.

Newsflash: It's no longer 1960. People other than "old white fellas" are now entitled to an opinion.  

There were thousands of years where they were the only opinions that mattered.  Bad luck being born into the first era where everyone gets a voice.

That's where you're wrong gunman, it's gone from all about me to a little bit about everyone, including white guys (of which I am one), absolutely nothing to do with respect.

No Patrick. We might not agree but that comment was certainly not aimed at you nor anyone in particular. Call it a counter argument to how us oldies see things.

Some "oldies" see things.

Only opinion that mattered? Honestly, What a load of codswallop. 

Funnily enough if it wasn't for generations of "old white fella's" hard work and invention you wouldn't have many of the things you take for granted today. 

Credit where credit is due I say.

From what I have viewed on this forum, Patrick, you do appear to have a serious lack of respect for a number of members. Blatantly referring to some as "old white men" a couple pages back illustrates this. I am completely impartial, and it is obvious you will find an argument over anything against someone such as LG, but wouldn't dare ague with your dear mate Ryan. You are inconsistent.

Don't get me wrong, you do a shark ton of work for YF which is appreciated. But, in my opinion, you come across arrogant. You can't be wrong, your quick to tell other members they are wrong and as a moderator you blatantly support certain members over others. 

But hey, this is just my opinion and I am just putting it out there. I've seen it, others have seen it (its really obvious) and its a bit pathetic. In fact, its so obvious that you felt obliged to defend yourself against LG's post which didnt appear to be about anyone in particular - you just presumed it was about you. Because your disrespectful and rude

The irony.

Is it wrong for me to this this?

No.  This it hard.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Someone's farming 'This'es

Yes because the world you have left everyone else is just fudgeing fantastic. Trump, Brexit, what ever group of racists manage the concentration camps in Australia, Putin's Russia, FIFA, Murdoch and his cronies, Fox News, Climate change, the gap between the top 1% and the rest of the planet, slavery, homophobia, racism, corruption, corporate rule, self-interest.

The problem is the rest of the world is suffering from the 'credit' that is 'due' and will until the whole thing just collapses into itself.

"concentration camps" for illegal immigrants pfft. I have no problem with illegal immigrants being kept out. What part of illegal do you not understand? You want to go to a country then follow the proper channels, if you want to try and sneak in illegally expect to get the book thrown at you.

Borders exist for a reason and I am all for them.

The wealth gap is indeed an issue but to say it is solely the fault of OWM is dishonest. There are plenty of races around the world with their own select elite, not just white folk. There are plenty of women in powerful positions now too. 

Give me Putin over Trump any day. 

Fox news is fake news just like CNN and BBC and all the rest of those lackeys. It's no secret.

Climate change is a worry. Do you have a car? I hope not otherwise you're a hypocrite.

yes there is a lot of racism and homophobia in the world, especially in the middle east and africa. Sadly no one continent, race, or creed has a monopoly when it comes to racism, homophobia etc: its every where, its global. There are even neo-nazis in Mongolia according to Ross Kemp.

South Africa is currently devouring itself and you can't blame that on the old white fella's

There's a lot of slavery going on in Africa these days too and its being run by other africans,

Sure there are some dodgy old white fellas out there, but then again there are dodgy people in EVERY demographic. Its called human nature. We can all be good we can all be bad, But hey lets blame old white fellas for every perceived wrong in the world because that suits the narrative that you have bought into.

Oh and as for Brexit, who would want to be part of the EU anyhow? The EU is rotten to the core and I look forward to its demise.

IMO even when the demographics change drastically in the future we are still going to have the same issues because the problem is to do with human's and the way they act, rather than the colour of their skin.

But its just too easy to go for the divide and conquer route isn't it.

As far as I’m aware, Patrick has never met Ryan. Meanwhile he and I disagreed on this very topic - we are both mods. We are also good friends. That doesn’t show that he supports certain members over others, because shouldn’t he then be agreeing with me (a fellow mod and friend) over Ryan (who I’m not sure he’s ever met)?

Sorry, does that not fit your narrative? Bugger. 

This thread definately needs more C+C Music Factory lyrics.

And youngn's are supposed to respect this sort of opinion?

#worth

The issue I have with the venue is this. 

If you want diversity, then book acts that have the diversity you seek. If you have x slots per night/week, then book however many slots for the divesity angle you want. Don't go telling other bands 'hey man, you need to be diverse'. Thats a right you don't have. 

If that were the case, you could rule out U2, Rolling Stones, The Beatles. How would the Pointer Sisters have gone if they were told 'You need to have a man in this group' ?

I get they want to be diverse and thats their right but there is a smarter way to go about it than what they have which they could have done with out broadcasting and attracting the negativity this is getting.