Things that make you go hmmmm

Having spent some time in that country and putting religion and history completely to one side so no one takes any offence 

Palestinians are probably the nicest people on the planet

Coochie whom I don't think I have ever agreed with before in any comment, is 100 per cent correct in saying young Israelis are in top spot for being arse holes.

I wouldnt however exclude middle age and older Israeli males from that equation

The women I wouldn't tar with the same brush. Initially they are because they are used to arseholes all the time and are hostile.

When they realise you are not like their males, they become normal people.

Not to mention the biggest paradox of all - Zionist Jews commit an act of political violence/terrorism and get a nation-state out of it, Palestinians do the same, they get bombed into the stone age.

But overall you're spot on, as long as US gives unreserved support to Israel, there is no prospect of a decent compromise that can create a sense of justice for everyone, and more importantly, let everyone get on with their lives without being worried that they can randomly die simply by jumping on the bus or playing football with their mates.

Actually I think it is the 2nd moment in recent times AP, but I’m sure normal service will resume!!

Very interesting interview

The White Helmets have been exposed time and again as a group known for faking/staging attacks yet certain people and media outlets continue to use them as some sort of credible source of info as it plays into the narrative they want to push.

Why would Assad want to use gas now when he is already winning the war? What has he got to gain? how much has he got to lose? Assad is no fool after all.

Chemical attacks are the new "WMD" imo. 

I've heard some noises about this but have not looked into it enough to really put forward a strong opinion of my own, without being ignorant.

But it does seem very odd to me that Assad would do this when there is no real gain for him, and he knows it would almost certainly result in strong american aggression. 

Assad has used chemicals many times already and has committed murder against his own people for  years. His involvement in Lebanon should leave no doubt what he is capable of. The UN exposed North Korea for their facilitation of Syria's development of chemical weapons.

It's interesting that Russia warned 2 weeks prior that they had evidence the rebels were planning a false flag chemical attack, in order to incite US aggression. 

I mean that could be false in itself no doubt, perhaps Syria and Russia worked together to put that out there in anticipation of denying a forthcoming attack, but again, why would Assad be so silly as to even do this? He's winning his war against these groups, I just can't see the incentive for him to do it. 

The bantering between Trump and the Russian administration yesterday/today is pretty alarming though. It wouldn't take much for this to escalate into proper war between them - which the political left in America seem to want??? Totally bizarre. 

In other news, this article was pretty interesting, concerning the previous discussion in this thread;

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/opinion/speakin...

That's the narrative Nato would like to have you believe. Syria was a very stable country for decades until just very recently, why suddenly did it descend into chaos? Shades of Libya all over again and we all know what Nato got up to there.

Where's the proof he committed murder against his own people for years? ie prior to the civil war?

Chemical attacks have been reported by the White Helmets, a group notorious for staging videos showing  fake "attacks" and here the white helmets are again popping up saying there has been a chemical attack just when Assad is on the verge of defeating his enemies and winning the war.

https://fakecheck.rt.com/en/stories/4

Members of the White Helmets have involved in war crimes as well as seen in verified video footage of executions.

My question is Why would Assad even consider using chemical weapons when in such a strong position and knowing that by using them he plays into the hands of Nato et all? Doesn't make any sense at all...but it is very convenient for Nato and Israel etc because their hope of overthrowing Assad has failed so now they are clutching at straws.

It all reeks of Iraq and the WMD. A scam.

The whole irony for me being we have the USA and Nato pontificating about Syria using chemical weapons while Nato themselves have no qualms about vapourising civilians with drone strikes in the middle east....or supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons that the saudi's then use to bomb Yemen back into the stoneage, causing mass civilian casualties.

It would be a good start if Nato and the US held themselves to the same high standards they expect of others. But I won't be holding my breath on that one.

RT is Russian state media, I'd take any information that I read on there and other sites like Sputnik and Pravda with a grain of salt.

There is free press in Russia but the above examples are not among them.

They also claimed (maybe still claim) that NATO shot down MH17

Ryan there are plenty of other sources with credible evidence showing how dubious the white helmets are and also who funds them. Look them up.

Focus on the message, not the messenger.

Why would assad, who is on the verge of victory, use chemical weapons? What has he got to gain?

On the other hand the "rebels' have everything to gain from hoaxing an attack.

Given the tactics Nato have employed in the past to get what they want, setting assad up is right up their alley. Iraq was a set up, Afghanistan, Libya...Syria...All countries of strategic interest for Nato, all went down the same road: a relentless narrative besmirching the  respective regimes, instigating unrest by using clever social media campaigns, civil war breaks out, chaos ensues.,,

Only this time things aren't going to plan for Nato in Syria :)

I've just seen you use RT as a source multiple times.

Hardly call it stable.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703995

So?

If you paid attention you would also see I quote many media sources from Stuff through to RT. Sometimes I even dabble with links to youtube videos :)

Guess you're too busy chasing unicorns, flowers and rainbows in your gender fluid, war free, utopia to notice :)

You are also pie in the sky re the middle east.

Stuff isn't much better to be fair.

Oops didn’t mean to Endorse!!  For sure agree with CR's comments that US/NATO are meddling in the Middle East, to serve their own interests, but some of his other points strongly disagree.

Toured Syria for 2 weeks in 1998. Ruled by Assad’s father back then. Sure you can only learn so much from being a tourist, but country gave the impression then of being very stable. Cliche but people were easily the nicest of 5 ME countries we visited (unlike the Egyptians). 

They were happy, just curious of tourists, no hidden agenda, and you saw family groups out and out, even if most of the women were veiled. I remember a bunch of school girls burst into giggles as I ran to catch a bus in me shorts, in Homs. Having a beer atop Aleepo citadel at dusk listening to the call to prayer from all the mosques. Camel races at Palymra (spp). It’s all very very sad to me seeing the mess Syria is now.

Still have no doubt that the Assad’s we’re both dictators, who ruled with an iron fist. Their Secret Police would have used torture etc. Assad senior quelled some internal rebellion in the 1970s? with blatant plane bombing of people in Homs I think.

Current civil war sprung out of the Arab Spring - and for sure US/NATO staff would have met ‘rebel’ leaders in London or wherever - to plot Assad’s over throw. Who knows the extent of their involvement after that. Truth goes out the window in war.

The White Helmets are mostly heroes with a huge death toll, so if they stage the odd propoganda stunt to draw attention you can hardly blame them. If Assad had stood down or allowed some type of free election/power transistion, then tens of thousands of lives would have been saved, and evilness of IS wouldn’t have grown so quickly. Problem is that often the egos/selfishness of a few individuals (on both sides) over ride everything, and millions of mostly innocents suffer.

Iraq, Syria and Libya were similar. Strong man dictators and reasonably stable countries where a large % of the population would have led a fairly contented everyday safe life - working, raising families, watching football etc etc. Women generally treated okay, but sure far from perfect, and by no means democracies.

Of course if you wanted free press, political change, were an ethic minority life etc probably not so good.

Afghanistan ruled by Tabilan very very different. A cruel medieval system, barely functioning state. Women buried to their neck and stoned to death (barbaric in the extreme) if they had an ‘affair’, or maybe tried to leave their 80 yr arranged marriage husband. No education for girls. 

A fudgeing miserable place. A regime change there was a very good thing, though doubt 15 odd years later much has changed for the millions of rural Afghans. At least place now has a glimmer of hope.

Even do a Wikipedia search on Rocket attacks on Israel from Gazza and you will see it is hardly a "few rudementary  devices"

2002 - 17 Rockets 455 Mortar Shells

2003 - 123 rockets and 514 mortars

2004 - 882 mortar shells and 276  rockets

2005 - 574 mortar shells and 286 rockets

2006 - 1,247 rockets and 28 mortars

2007 - A total of 2,807 rockets and mortars

2008 - 1575 Rockets 1528 Mortars

2009 - 858 Rockets and Mortars

2010 -  569 rocket launches and 289 mortar launches.

2011 - 680 Rockets and Mortars

2012 - 2257 Rockets

2013 - 68 Rockets and Mortars

2014 - 4036 Rockets and Mortars

2015 - 4594 Rockets and Mortars

2016 - 12 Rockets

2017 - 51 Rockets

Just to add

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in...

Now lets see Israel to Gaza weaponry used as a comparison. 

Overall I agree with your point though, Hamas are no angels, but it's here I would pick up on a point Ryan has made - you are a product of your environment sometimes. If you're walled in, oppressed, abused, are you just supposed to roll over and take it? I hardly blame them. 

On RT, yes please, take with grain of salt.

But to be completely honest, I rate RT at the exactly the same credibility level as CNN, Fox, MSNBC, any of them. They're all propaganda machines. RT serves the state, the american ones serve their "state", which in reality is their financial elite. 

Here's a really interesting clip from the Joe Rogan podcast, speaking with Jimmy Dore. Now Dore is a little unhinged in this clip, and Rogan should have done a better job of holding him to account and making him name his sources and evidence, like he usually would, so I would recommend pausing and googling any particular claims you think are dubious (my normal behaviour for these sorts of things). I can confirm that the vast vast majority of what he is claiming here is most definitely true, even if I'm not entirely sure about the Syrian gas attacks. It kind of wraps it up in a super nice way to explain exactly what goes on in american politics these days. I particularly enjoyed the summary of Bill Clinton's presidency and what really went on there. The Clintons really are a scourge on the world in my opinion, and are the main reason we have ended up with Trump. That election should've been Trump vs Sanders, any day of the week. And I believe Sanders would have won by a landslide. 

I thought the CNN newsroom was completely sepperate from the commercial operations and fiercely independent? 

Not that I watch CNN.

There is certainly fault on both sides and the Palestinians are caught in the middle, but ovrall, I keep coming back to the conclusion that if Hamas wanted peace there would be peace. If Israel wanted to wipe Palestine out, they would.

Agree.  I said about the time Rump was announced as Republican candidate and people here were laughing that they have no idea of how much the Clintons are  disliked in the US.If even half of what is written about the Clintons is true, they should be dragged outside, tied to a tree and suffer some lead poisoning.

CNN is terrible

and 171 Suicide bombings killing 805, wounding 964

I think that's overly simplifying things. The only way Hamas gets peace is to bow down to Israel's unreasonable (and illegal) occupation. Without Israel there would be no Hamas.  

And Israel certainly want to wipe Palestine out, for sure. They are doing what they're doing because the US is letting them, and protecting them from the ire of the rest of the world. But even the US won't let them go as far as to just wipe them out. 

Lets be clear here, Israel are, and have been for a long time, breaking clear international law, and they are getting away with it scot free, thanks to US support, who are also incidentally breaking international law all over the place. The criticism of Israel is only very recent, as people have become more emboldened to criticise, since we now seem to be ok to separate criticism of Israel out from criticism of the Jewish religion and people. Just 5 - 10 years ago there was very little criticism, as most people feared being labelled anti-semitic. 

Interesting sidenote: the US are the only country that has ever been convicted of terrorism by the International Court of Justice, for their activity in Nicaragua in the 70s/80s. And in the 1980s, on 5 separate occasions, the UN put forward resolutions for the US to comply with the ruling, all of which they vetoed after they were out-voted heavily. Only El Salvador and Israel (surprise surprise) voted with the US each time. 

Yeah nah... 

CNN is a dogs breakfast, just like the rest of them. 

It used to be that reporters and organisations tried to paint themselves as neutral, now they don't even bother trying. 

CNN/MSNBC are Team Democrat, and Fox are Team Republican, and no one is hiding it any longer. 

In that respect, you could say RT are more credible. Yes they are for sure Team Russia but at least they don't care whether the Democrats or Republicans are in power, they give US sh*t at the same rate, hahahahaha

Countries that have supported terrorism include Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Cuba , Libya,  Yemen to name a few.

I thought CNN/NYTIMES, etc. are the "main stream media" which would then indicate the main stream are democrats if they're team democrat.

Breitbart and Fox are very clearly republican and are influenced by their owners. Sinclair is the scariest of the lot but the media that you classify as "democrat" seem to at the very least attempt to be unbiased.

you admitted you don't watch them !

equally, Hamas, and a host of others countries in the middle East wish to see Israel wiped of the face of the earth. 

Egypt has come to relative peace with Israel, admittedly after getting their butts kicked.

It is complex and I doubt the middle East problems will ever be solved but I am just pointing out that there is fault on both sides here.

But again this is a strawman argument

Why are Palestinians fighting back in the first place? 

Maybe if Israel did occupy (illegally) Palestinian land then the Palestinians would have no reason to get angry? Instead all we get is Israel, a veritable middle east super power, playing the victim card whenever anyone dares to stand in their way ie kids throwing stones and israeli troops.

Hmmmmmmmmm

That's a separate issue altogether and quite apart from the issue of the creation of Israel in 1948 and the oppression of Palestinian people.

Anyhow Egypt is the joke. When the muslim brotherhood (pro palestine) democratcially gained power in Egypt, Israel and Nato were most unimpressed so the west and israel did what they always do: seek to bring down regimes that stand in their way.

After the west agitated Egyption citizens with a cleverly co-ordinated social media campaign Egypt was undermined from within thus allowing Sisi to take control by military coup. Bye bye democracy that most treasured commodity or so we are told time and again by the west.

At this point it is worth reminding ourselves how often the US, UK, France, Israel etc go on and on about how they stand for (even fight for) democracy and freedom. Yet they were all very happy to see a democratically elected leader in Egypt taken out with a coup and replaced by a leader who was pro west and pro Israel. Yeah.

That's a big Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm from me.

Funnily enough There was just recently another election in Egypt and the Sisi steamroller continued...he basically got all the votes...and the west congratulated him on his convincing victory. meanwhile there also was a n election in Russia and Putin retained power convincingly and his victory was roundly condemned by the west and called a sham. yeah right.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm x 2.

Sisi is an OK leader for the west because he is happy to represent western interests in the region., Yet Sisi's humans rights record is appalling but the west are more than happy to turn a blind eye to these things when it suits them.

Egypt and Israel have come to an "agreement" nothing more nothing less. Sisi is a stooge.

One thing I have learned is tha Nato are rotten to the core and not to be trusted. Show me I'm wrong

Oh they are main stream, for sure. But they are also extremely biased. 

I don't know where to start, it just seems so obvious without having to delve into much evidence. 

Donna Brazile and the leaked debate questions are a good recent example, but basic stats over many years show the bias coming through. A large percentage of their stories are deliberately negative towards Republicans, and positive towards Democrats. 

There's a wikipedia page of CNN controversies outlining a lot of the bias, but I mean, watch the actual channel for a bit, it's quite clear. They operate a lot like a political party. When their team is in government, they report on how great they are, when they're not, they're busy criticising and attempting to hold the government to account. 

You are obviously very smart----- so I won't bother to name them all. The NATO countries.

So they are all rotten to the core?

LOL LOL LOL

Going to have to agree to disagree with that. White Helmets are dubious at best. Plenty of evidence out there that shows how dodgy they are.

Why should have Assad stood aside and let western interests insert a regime that they can be in control of?  Look how well things ended up in Libya...

The rise of Isis is the direct result of the west meddling in the ME, not the work of Assad. 

Look at Saudi Arabia, it's absolutely appalling. 

Every time the US criticises the human rights situation in another country I have a giggle, I can't even understand how we're supposed to take it seriously. 

They literally do not take democracy or human rights into account one single bit when they decide on which regimes need to be toppled. 

They've been committing wholesale terrorism (in the actual definition of the word, not the new definition we've formulated for the modern world) for years and years, over and over. 

Clapper admitted as much on live television just recently, and even had a laugh about it.