Current version

Posted September 29, 2021 22:47 · last edited September 29, 2021 22:50

lthomas20
Nelfoos
lthomas20
Monto
lthomas20
Chances of getting Reid are bugger all as we know, wouldn't even bother thinking about him.

Bit concerned that our squad will be pretty threadbare and academy players could struggle (I'm all for pushing them through as we have done, but two or three at once not five or six). 

Serious suggestion - Miramar and Welly Olympic have a lot of the remains of Team Wellington and have both looked pretty flash this year, why not raid them? Yes it'd suck for them as they'd lose those key players for their National League campaigns, but priorities! Talking Andy Bevan, Sam Mason-Smith, Mario Barcia, JH Sinclair, maybe even Gulley for the depth...
iI know this makes sense to do, but I really hate it. I'd really like to see a welly team win the NL in this new revamped format and I truly think either team could do it with those players still in. Makes good sense for the Nix though, I can't see many other options for them.
Reason I pick out raiding the Wellington teams is because you know what Auckland City and other northern sides can be difficult (and I genuinely believe that, apart from ACFC, their players aren't as desirable). Yeah I'd feel bad about us fudgeing up their NL campaigns, but again, priorities! 

If I'm honest I'm a little bit sick of us holding on to Rufer and Fenton for so damn long... I'm 100% for the club supporting Kiwi players, but shouldn't this entail bringing top domestic players through. Look at the successes that Tim Payne, Clayton Lewis, Callum McCowatt and Callan Elliot to a slightly lesser extent have been!

Fenton and Rufer are both more than servicable A-League players, releasing them would be absolutely insane. Both would look like a whale shark in a fishbowl if they dropped back down to the Handy.

You need depth & squad players to compete. A-League experience is going to be invaluable this season - plenty of other spots in the squad to bring through top performers from local sides, if Talay decides to take that approach.
Sure I get it, and tbh this close to the season starting, I think you're right that it would be stupid to release them now. But maybe envisiging a future where we bring through other Kiwis that will challenge them for positions and eventually challenge them for squad status? Sure.

You can hammer on and on about experience and all that but when Tim Payne, a Handy Prem player, came in, he overtook Louis Fenton at right back. Rufer was overtaken first by Devlin at centremid (a guy who had little to no AL experience), and then again by Lewis at centremid (a guy who had little professional experience). So I don't really buy it that they're a massive level above the domestic league - they'd look good in it no doubt, but they'd hardly rip it to pieces. 

So yeah sure no point in releasing Fenton and Rufer this close to the season, but seriously, we need to plan for a more ambitious future than they offer. 

Rufer was overtaken by Devlin, who is already looking at home in a higher quality league in the SPFL - there's no shame in having better players in the squad. Lewis & Payne were both also clearly too good for the Handy & came back to NZ after having professional experience overseas - there are very, very few players like that a) playing in the National League and b) willing to play for the Phoenix (eg, Howieson).

Both guys are more than capable of being A-League squaddies - if you want to be more ambitious than that signing NZ based players would be few and far between - we aren't in a position to be releasing A-League quality players, now or at any time in the future.

Personally, I think you're heavily under-rating both players & over-rating the Handy compared to the A-League. McCowatt was also class in the Handy (top scorer 2 years in a row) but really struggled to make the step up to A-League quality - scoring only two goals. Gulley was regarded as one of the best defenders in the Handy but looked woefully out of his depth in the A-League. The same is true for Hamish Watson. The gap in quality & the step from amateur to professional is much bigger than you're making it out to be, as history shows. I'm not saying Fenton and Rufer should be nailed on starters but there really isn't the quality in our domestic competition to replace them currently & they're the exact type of player you keep around to maintain a team culture over a period of time.

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Unknown editor edited September 29, 2021 22:50
lthomas20
Nelfoos
lthomas20
Monto
lthomas20
Chances of getting Reid are bugger all as we know, wouldn't even bother thinking about him.

Bit concerned that our squad will be pretty threadbare and academy players could struggle (I'm all for pushing them through as we have done, but two or three at once not five or six). 

Serious suggestion - Miramar and Welly Olympic have a lot of the remains of Team Wellington and have both looked pretty flash this year, why not raid them? Yes it'd suck for them as they'd lose those key players for their National League campaigns, but priorities! Talking Andy Bevan, Sam Mason-Smith, Mario Barcia, JH Sinclair, maybe even Gulley for the depth...
iI know this makes sense to do, but I really hate it. I'd really like to see a welly team win the NL in this new revamped format and I truly think either team could do it with those players still in. Makes good sense for the Nix though, I can't see many other options for them.
Reason I pick out raiding the Wellington teams is because you know what Auckland City and other northern sides can be difficult (and I genuinely believe that, apart from ACFC, their players aren't as desirable). Yeah I'd feel bad about us fudgeing up their NL campaigns, but again, priorities! 

If I'm honest I'm a little bit sick of us holding on to Rufer and Fenton for so damn long... I'm 100% for the club supporting Kiwi players, but shouldn't this entail bringing top domestic players through. Look at the successes that Tim Payne, Clayton Lewis, Callum McCowatt and Callan Elliot to a slightly lesser extent have been!

Fenton and Rufer are both more than servicable A-League players, releasing them would be absolutely insane. Both would look like a whale shark in a fishbowl if they dropped back down to the Handy.

You need depth & squad players to compete. A-League experience is going to be invaluable this season - plenty of other spots in the squad to bring through top performers from local sides, if Talay decides to take that approach.
Sure I get it, and tbh this close to the season starting, I think you're right that it would be stupid to release them now. But maybe envisiging a future where we bring through other Kiwis that will challenge them for positions and eventually challenge them for squad status? Sure.

You can hammer on and on about experience and all that but when Tim Payne, a Handy Prem player, came in, he overtook Louis Fenton at right back. Rufer was overtaken first by Devlin at centremid (a guy who had little to no AL experience), and then again by Lewis at centremid (a guy who had little professional experience). So I don't really buy it that they're a massive level above the domestic league - they'd look good in it no doubt, but they'd hardly rip it to pieces. 

So yeah sure no point in releasing Fenton and Rufer this close to the season, but seriously, we need to plan for a more ambitious future than they offer. 

Rufer was overtaken by Devlin, who is already looking at home in a higher quality league in the SPFL - there's no shame in having better players in the squad. Lewis & Payne were both also clearly too good for the Handy & came back to NZ after having professional experience overseas - there are very, very few players like that a) playing in the National League and b) willing to play for the Phoenix (eg, Howieson).

Both guys are more than capable of being A-League squaddies - if you want to be more ambitious than that signing NZ based players would be few and far between - we aren't in a position to be releasing A-League quality players, now or at any time in the future.

Personally, I think you're heavily under-rating both players & over-rating the Handy compared to the A-League. McCowatt was also class in the Handy (top scorer 2 years in a row) but really struggled to make the step up to A-League quality - scoring only two goals. Gulley was regarded as one of the best defenders in the Handy but looked woefully out of his depth in the A-League. The same is true for Hamish Watson. The gap in quality & the step from amateur to professional is much bigger than you're making it out to be. I'm not saying Fenton and Rufer should be nailed on starters but there really isn't the quality in our domestic competition to replace them currently & they're the exact type of player you keep around to maintain a team culture over a period of time.
Unknown editor edited September 29, 2021 22:49
lthomas20
Nelfoos
lthomas20
Monto
lthomas20
Chances of getting Reid are bugger all as we know, wouldn't even bother thinking about him.

Bit concerned that our squad will be pretty threadbare and academy players could struggle (I'm all for pushing them through as we have done, but two or three at once not five or six). 

Serious suggestion - Miramar and Welly Olympic have a lot of the remains of Team Wellington and have both looked pretty flash this year, why not raid them? Yes it'd suck for them as they'd lose those key players for their National League campaigns, but priorities! Talking Andy Bevan, Sam Mason-Smith, Mario Barcia, JH Sinclair, maybe even Gulley for the depth...
iI know this makes sense to do, but I really hate it. I'd really like to see a welly team win the NL in this new revamped format and I truly think either team could do it with those players still in. Makes good sense for the Nix though, I can't see many other options for them.
Reason I pick out raiding the Wellington teams is because you know what Auckland City and other northern sides can be difficult (and I genuinely believe that, apart from ACFC, their players aren't as desirable). Yeah I'd feel bad about us fudgeing up their NL campaigns, but again, priorities! 

If I'm honest I'm a little bit sick of us holding on to Rufer and Fenton for so damn long... I'm 100% for the club supporting Kiwi players, but shouldn't this entail bringing top domestic players through. Look at the successes that Tim Payne, Clayton Lewis, Callum McCowatt and Callan Elliot to a slightly lesser extent have been!

Fenton and Rufer are both more than servicable A-League players, releasing them would be absolutely insane. Both would look like a whale shark in a fishbowl if they dropped back down to the Handy.

You need depth & squad players to compete. A-League experience is going to be invaluable this season - plenty of other spots in the squad to bring through top performers from local sides, if Talay decides to take that approach.
Sure I get it, and tbh this close to the season starting, I think you're right that it would be stupid to release them now. But maybe envisiging a future where we bring through other Kiwis that will challenge them for positions and eventually challenge them for squad status? Sure.

You can hammer on and on about experience and all that but when Tim Payne, a Handy Prem player, came in, he overtook Louis Fenton at right back. Rufer was overtaken first by Devlin at centremid (a guy who had little to no AL experience), and then again by Lewis at centremid (a guy who had little professional experience). So I don't really buy it that they're a massive level above the domestic league - they'd look good in it no doubt, but they'd hardly rip it to pieces. 

So yeah sure no point in releasing Fenton and Rufer this close to the season, but seriously, we need to plan for a more ambitious future than they offer. 

Rufer was overtaken by Devlin, who is already looking at home in a higher quality league in the SPFL - there's no shame in having better players in the squad. Lewis & Payne were both also clearly too good for the Handy & came back to NZ after having professional experience overseas - there are very, very few players like that a) playing in the National League and b) willing to play for the Phoenix (eg, Howieson).

Both guys are more than capable of being A-League squaddies - if you want to be more ambitious than that signing NZ based players would be few and far between - we aren't in a position to be releasing A-League quality players, now or at any time in the future.

Personally, I think you're heavily under-rating both players & over-rating the Handy compared to the A-League. McCowatt was also class in the Handy (top scorer 2 years in a row) but really struggled to make the step up to A-League quality - scoring only two goals. Gulley was regarded as one of the best defenders in the Handy but looked woefully out of his depth in the A-League. The same is true for Hamish Watson. The gap in quality & the step from amateur to professional is much bigger than you're making it out to be. I'm not saying Fenton and Rufer should be nailed on starters but there really isn't the quality in our domestic competition to replace them currently.
Unknown editor edited September 29, 2021 22:49
lthomas20
Nelfoos
lthomas20
Monto
lthomas20
Chances of getting Reid are bugger all as we know, wouldn't even bother thinking about him.

Bit concerned that our squad will be pretty threadbare and academy players could struggle (I'm all for pushing them through as we have done, but two or three at once not five or six). 

Serious suggestion - Miramar and Welly Olympic have a lot of the remains of Team Wellington and have both looked pretty flash this year, why not raid them? Yes it'd suck for them as they'd lose those key players for their National League campaigns, but priorities! Talking Andy Bevan, Sam Mason-Smith, Mario Barcia, JH Sinclair, maybe even Gulley for the depth...
iI know this makes sense to do, but I really hate it. I'd really like to see a welly team win the NL in this new revamped format and I truly think either team could do it with those players still in. Makes good sense for the Nix though, I can't see many other options for them.
Reason I pick out raiding the Wellington teams is because you know what Auckland City and other northern sides can be difficult (and I genuinely believe that, apart from ACFC, their players aren't as desirable). Yeah I'd feel bad about us fudgeing up their NL campaigns, but again, priorities! 

If I'm honest I'm a little bit sick of us holding on to Rufer and Fenton for so damn long... I'm 100% for the club supporting Kiwi players, but shouldn't this entail bringing top domestic players through. Look at the successes that Tim Payne, Clayton Lewis, Callum McCowatt and Callan Elliot to a slightly lesser extent have been!

Fenton and Rufer are both more than servicable A-League players, releasing them would be absolutely insane. Both would look like a whale shark in a fishbowl if they dropped back down to the Handy.

You need depth & squad players to compete. A-League experience is going to be invaluable this season - plenty of other spots in the squad to bring through top performers from local sides, if Talay decides to take that approach.
Sure I get it, and tbh this close to the season starting, I think you're right that it would be stupid to release them now. But maybe envisiging a future where we bring through other Kiwis that will challenge them for positions and eventually challenge them for squad status? Sure.

You can hammer on and on about experience and all that but when Tim Payne, a Handy Prem player, came in, he overtook Louis Fenton at right back. Rufer was overtaken first by Devlin at centremid (a guy who had little to no AL experience), and then again by Lewis at centremid (a guy who had little professional experience). So I don't really buy it that they're a massive level above the domestic league - they'd look good in it no doubt, but they'd hardly rip it to pieces. 

So yeah sure no point in releasing Fenton and Rufer this close to the season, but seriously, we need to plan for a more ambitious future than they offer. 

Rufer was overtaken by Devlin, who is already looking at home in a higher quality league in the SPFL - there's no shame in having better players in the squad. Lewis & Payne were both also clearly too good for the Handy & came back to NZ after having professional experience overseas - there are very, very few players like that a) playing in the National League and b) willing to play for the Phoenix (eg, Howieson).

Both guys are more than capable of being A-League squaddies - if you want to be more ambitious than that signing NZ based players would be few and far between - we aren't in a position to be releasing A-League quality players, now or at any time in the future.

Personally, I think you're heavily underrating both players & over-rating the Handy compared to the A-League. McCowatt was also class in the Handy (top scorer 2 years in a row) but really struggled to make the step up to A-League quality - scoring only two goals. Gulley was regarded as one of the best defenders in the Handy but looked woefully out of his depth in the A-League. The same is true for Hamish Watson. The gap in quality & the step from amateur to professional is much bigger than you're making it out to be. I'm not saying Fenton and Rufer should be nailed on starters but there really isn't the quality in our domestic competition to replace them currently.
Unknown editor edited September 29, 2021 22:48
lthomas20
Nelfoos
lthomas20
Monto
lthomas20
Chances of getting Reid are bugger all as we know, wouldn't even bother thinking about him.

Bit concerned that our squad will be pretty threadbare and academy players could struggle (I'm all for pushing them through as we have done, but two or three at once not five or six). 

Serious suggestion - Miramar and Welly Olympic have a lot of the remains of Team Wellington and have both looked pretty flash this year, why not raid them? Yes it'd suck for them as they'd lose those key players for their National League campaigns, but priorities! Talking Andy Bevan, Sam Mason-Smith, Mario Barcia, JH Sinclair, maybe even Gulley for the depth...
iI know this makes sense to do, but I really hate it. I'd really like to see a welly team win the NL in this new revamped format and I truly think either team could do it with those players still in. Makes good sense for the Nix though, I can't see many other options for them.
Reason I pick out raiding the Wellington teams is because you know what Auckland City and other northern sides can be difficult (and I genuinely believe that, apart from ACFC, their players aren't as desirable). Yeah I'd feel bad about us fudgeing up their NL campaigns, but again, priorities! 

If I'm honest I'm a little bit sick of us holding on to Rufer and Fenton for so damn long... I'm 100% for the club supporting Kiwi players, but shouldn't this entail bringing top domestic players through. Look at the successes that Tim Payne, Clayton Lewis, Callum McCowatt and Callan Elliot to a slightly lesser extent have been!

Fenton and Rufer are both more than servicable A-League players, releasing them would be absolutely insane. Both would look like a whale shark in a fishbowl if they dropped back down to the Handy.

You need depth & squad players to compete. A-League experience is going to be invaluable this season - plenty of other spots in the squad to bring through top performers from local sides, if Talay decides to take that approach.
Sure I get it, and tbh this close to the season starting, I think you're right that it would be stupid to release them now. But maybe envisiging a future where we bring through other Kiwis that will challenge them for positions and eventually challenge them for squad status? Sure.

You can hammer on and on about experience and all that but when Tim Payne, a Handy Prem player, came in, he overtook Louis Fenton at right back. Rufer was overtaken first by Devlin at centremid (a guy who had little to no AL experience), and then again by Lewis at centremid (a guy who had little professional experience). So I don't really buy it that they're a massive level above the domestic league - they'd look good in it no doubt, but they'd hardly rip it to pieces. 

So yeah sure no point in releasing Fenton and Rufer this close to the season, but seriously, we need to plan for a more ambitious future than they offer. 

Rufer overtaken by Devlin, who is already looking at home in a higher quality league in the SPFL. Lewis & Payne were both also clearly too good for the Handy & came back to NZ after having professional experience overseas - there are very, very few players like that a) playing in the National League and b) willing to play for the Phoenix (eg, Howieson). I'm not sayiong Fenton and Rufer should be nailed on starters but there really isn't the quality in our domestic competition to replace them currently.

Both guys are more than capable of being A-League squaddies - if you want to be more ambitious than that signing NZ based players would be few and far between - we aren't in a position to be releasing A-League quality players, now or at any time in the future.

Personally, I think you're heavily underrating both players & over-rating the Handy compared to the A-League. McCowatt was also class in the Handy (top scorer 2 years in a row) but really struggled to make the step up to A-League quality - scoring only two goals. Gulley was regarded as one of the best defenders in the Handy but looked woefully out of his depth in the A-League. The same is true for Hamish Watson. The gap in quality & the step from amateur to professional is much bigger than you're making it out to be.