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How to rebirth the Phoenix/The "What can we do to improve?" thread

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Posted February 20, 2017 04:40 · last edited February 20, 2017 04:41

Bullion wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:

Ryan wrote:

theprof wrote:

none of the above is going to happen with an ownership group who wants to turn a profit before all other things.

What? We're not CCM here spending the minimum, this team is very expensive it's just not performing. In fact, our ownership group has never expressed any desire to make a profit - let alone make one before all other things. They've said that the end goal is for the team to be self sufficient, right now they're spending millions a season on it. 

I know for a fact that at least one of the consortium sees the Phoenix as purely philanthropic, and others have expressed in the media their desire to do this for Wellington, and to use it as a vehicle to do more for the city.

What we need though is a decent coach who is given free range, no more of this football comity business. We've seen time and time again what a good coach can do for a mediocre team, and this team is in fact a good team that is underperforming so there is a huge amount of potential.

I can only say rubbish!!!!

The fact that the team is expensive only means that the Nix ownership don't know enough about running a football business and they are not successful at it.

And I'm sorry, a good coach can do nothing for a mediocre team that is lasting, one or two good performances perhaps but at A League level you need good players that perform - full stop.

The view that this is a good team is just a fallacy, absolutely no evidence to support that. At almost every turn they are shown to be wanting and not up to A League standard. Some of you have to stop deluding yourself, the table doesn't lie especially when we are filling the bottom slots every bloody year......

I would say the team, envisaged on how Ernie wanted to set up, is a good team. WeeMac, Roly and Finkler are good HAL midfielders, Kosta and Krishna are good HAL attackers, Dura and Rossi are good HAL defenders (Rossi very good), Moss is a good HAL 'keeper. The others around the first team, Doyle, Lia, ARod have proven to be competent HAL players over the season and Tratt has surprisingly been decent.

I thought there were a couple of issues with the team, pressing with Finkler in the team and possession football with Moss as 'keeper. 

Otherwise we're performing worse than the sum of our parts.

The problem is that Ernie's tactics relied on fullbacks contributing massively and a solid DM who could tackle, screen and pass. In Ernie's best year we had Manny and Boxall who were both in rollicking form in the FB roles and Riera at his peak at DM was the best in that role in the competition. In this season's squad, with Ernie's preferred starters the FBs and DM were arguably the weakest players relative to the competition standard. If you adjust tactically to cover those weaknesses (don't have the FBs push forward, play 2 DMs, don't transition as quickly, etc) then it becomes apparent that the mix of players you have isn't really right for any other approach. You can shoehorn them into a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 but not without some of those "good" players playing out of position or not playing at all. Which is why I argue that although there are some good players it's not actually a good squad. It also makes it harder for Des and Greenie to find a way to play and any future manager to impose his style, because a lot of those guys are contracted beyond this season.

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ConanTroutman edited February 20, 2017 04:41
Bullion wrote:
Napier Phoenix wrote:
Ryan wrote:
theprof wrote:

none of the above is going to happen with an ownership group who wants to turn a profit before all other things.

What? We're not CCM here spending the minimum, this team is very expensive it's just not performing. In fact, our ownership group has never expressed any desire to make a profit - let alone make one before all other things. They've said that the end goal is for the team to be self sufficient, right now they're spending millions a season on it. 

I know for a fact that at least one of the consortium sees the Phoenix as purely philanthropic, and others have expressed in the media their desire to do this for Wellington, and to use it as a vehicle to do more for the city.

What we need though is a decent coach who is given free range, no more of this football comity business. We've seen time and time again what a good coach can do for a mediocre team, and this team is in fact a good team that is underperforming so there is a huge amount of potential.

I can only say rubbish!!!!

The fact that the team is expensive only means that the Nix ownership don't know enough about running a football business and they are not successful at it.

And I'm sorry, a good coach can do nothing for a mediocre team that is lasting, one or two good performances perhaps but at A League level you need good players that perform - full stop.

The view that this is a good team is just a fallacy, absolutely no evidence to support that. At almost every turn they are shown to be wanting and not up to A League standard. Some of you have to stop deluding yourself, the table doesn't lie especially when we are filling the bottom slots every bloody year......

I would say the team, envisaged on how Ernie wanted to set up, is a good team. WeeMac, Roly and Finkler are good HAL midfielders, Kosta and Krishna are good HAL attackers, Dura and Rossi are good HAL defenders (Rossi very good), Moss is a good HAL 'keeper. The others around the first team, Doyle, Lia, ARod have proven to be competent HAL players over the season and Tratt has surprisingly been decent.

I thought there were a couple of issues with the team, pressing with Finkler in the team and possession football with Moss as 'keeper. 

Otherwise we're performing worse than the sum of our parts.

The problem is that Ernie's tactics relied on fullbacks contributing massively and a solid DM who could tackle, screen and pass. In Ernie's best year we had Manny and Boxall who were both in rollicking form in the FB roles and Riera at his peak at DM was the best in that role in the competition. In this season's squad, with Ernie's preferred starters the FBs and DM were arguably the weakest players relative to the competition standard. If you adjust tactically to cover those weaknesses (don't have the FBs push forward, play 2 DMs, don't transition as quickly, etc) then it becomes apparent that the mix of players you have isn't really right for any other approach. You can shoehorn them into a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 but not without some of those "good" players playing out of position. Which is why I argue that although there are some good players it's not actually a good squad.