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Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

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Posted October 22, 2015 23:14 · last edited October 22, 2015 23:17

Mainland FC wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Hard News wrote:

It would be typically short sighted of them though.  

The same geniuses that thought Clive Palmer and Nathan Tinkler were good ideas are behind putting a club in a non-footballing stronghold who's limited football fanbase is generally aligned to Sydney FC.

Cannibalisation won't grow the league it will just dilute the market you have.

Mind you this is also the geniuses who think the opposing teams in a derby match lining up facing each other isn't remotely contrived or embarrassing.


De Bohun needs to spend more time making this league viable and less time out on this piss until four in the morning.

If you are referring to Sutherland, you are seriously misinformed. The people of the Sutherland Shire (and a lot of Wollongong/Illawarra) would support Sutherland and Sydney FC would lose about one third of its fan base.

On this wider issue though, there is a natural untapped derby "market" of 1.2 million in Auckland. From a franchising perspective it sharks all over supposed other Aussie regional or even Sydney/Melbourne new entry markets. Hyundai as major sponsor would surely want Auckland in the mix too. League, basketball "Aussie" leagues have been trans Tasman leagues for years. Our primary rugby and netball competitions don't work without Kiwis and Aussies working together. As much as we love to hate each other, we desperately need each other. The posturing is getting ridiculous now and both key parties need to put an end to it quickly.

On the first issue, Global Game is right - Sutherland Shire (where Graeme Arnold was a junior player) is pretty much a cradle of NSW football as much as Northern NSW. These are people who supported local football for generations, side by side with other codes; much like the South Coast (Woollongong / Illawarra).  

On the second issue, "yes, but".  There would need to be serious grassroots movement in Auckland first, clamouring for a licence to play in the A-League. Yes there has been a large population growth in Auckland in the last decade. However, it came largely from countries with minor footballing cultures (India, PRC). Getting an A-league class franchise off the ground in Auckland would need some serious corporate funding and a concerted media beat-up, while at the same time protecting the ongoing interests of the Phoenix. I know Gareth Morgan said several times that Auckland is the natural place to grow football in this country and he would be keen to give it a leg-up, but i would not want to whiteant The Nix just to grow football in Auckland.

Finally, all other Trans-Tasman competitions are not subject to overarching regulations by regional and global federations, and do not seem to have the same long-entrenched political infighting over serious money both from TV broadcasters and from FIFA. Note that I said "do not seem to have", so anyone with an insider's view on netball, basketball, NRL inside politics etc is free to correct me.

I also think that Auckland lacks a cohesive identity that fans can rally round. The Warriors are tied into a South Auckland/Pasifika identity and that seems to work well for them. I'm not so sure about the Breakers as I don't really follow them, but I get the feeling that people in Auckland don't rally around teams representing their city in the same way that people in other cities do. I honestly think that a Christchurch team could almost be a more sustainable option but they aren't a big enough market for the FFA. 

An Auckland team might work but it would have to have a clear connection to the local football community in some way. The lack of appropriate stadiums in both size and location is also an obvious issue. Maybe a South Auckland based team also playing at Mt Smart and trying to tap into migrant communities there could work? What do Auckland based feverites think would be the best way to build an Auckland team?

I agree that on paper we here in Christchurch look like a better fit than Auckland, because of a more cohesive identity and a surprisingly strong and easily identifiable old English migration, I think there are other pro- and con- factors though. Money would be a problem, due to smaller commercial base unless grassroots support for a number of smaller local teams can be channelled into a bigger franchise, but local clubs would fear money drained from them unless external backers are involved.  On the other hand we have a good local stadium and a very good local academy now happening funded by a Russian migrant with seemingly endless oodles of cash and passion for the sport. Plus, we have the right city size to unite behind one club without "regional" loyalties like Auckland; but it still only means as many bums on seats as The Nix, or for that matter, The Mariners in Gosford.   Another plus?  It is easier to fill our small rectangular stadium than the RoF. 

Auckland has more population growth happening than Adelaide, a city of the same size, where the original second (NSL) club (West Adelaide) is still unable to get into HAL - but football tradition, of several generations, is what keeps the passion going and I am yet to see where Auckland has that. Yes we could try and translate the Auckland City FC into a HAL franchise, but I do not feel qualified to discuss local Auckland scene as I do not live there.

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Mainland FC edited October 22, 2015 23:17
ConanTroutman wrote:
Mainland FC wrote:
Global Game wrote:
Hard News wrote:

It would be typically short sighted of them though.  

The same geniuses that thought Clive Palmer and Nathan Tinkler were good ideas are behind putting a club in a non-footballing stronghold who's limited football fanbase is generally aligned to Sydney FC.

Cannibalisation won't grow the league it will just dilute the market you have.

Mind you this is also the geniuses who think the opposing teams in a derby match lining up facing each other isn't remotely contrived or embarrassing.


De Bohun needs to spend more time making this league viable and less time out on this piss until four in the morning.

If you are referring to Sutherland, you are seriously misinformed. The people of the Sutherland Shire (and a lot of Wollongong/Illawarra) would support Sutherland and Sydney FC would lose about one third of its fan base.

On this wider issue though, there is a natural untapped derby "market" of 1.2 million in Auckland. From a franchising perspective it sharks all over supposed other Aussie regional or even Sydney/Melbourne new entry markets. Hyundai as major sponsor would surely want Auckland in the mix too. League, basketball "Aussie" leagues have been trans Tasman leagues for years. Our primary rugby and netball competitions don't work without Kiwis and Aussies working together. As much as we love to hate each other, we desperately need each other. The posturing is getting ridiculous now and both key parties need to put an end to it quickly.

On the first issue, Global Game is right - Sutherland Shire (where Graeme Arnold was a junior player) is pretty much a cradle of NSW football as much as Northern NSW. These are people who supported local football for generations, side by side with other codes; much like the South Coast (Woollongong / Illawarra).  

On the second issue, "yes, but".  There would need to be serious grassroots movement in Auckland first, clamouring for a licence to play in the A-League. Yes there has been a large population growth in Auckland in the last decade. However, it came largely from countries with minor footballing cultures (India, PRC). Getting an A-league class franchise off the ground in Auckland would need some serious corporate funding and a concerted media beat-up, while at the same time protecting the ongoing interests of the Phoenix. I know Gareth Morgan said several times that Auckland is the natural place to grow football in this country and he would be keen to give it a leg-up, but i would not want to whiteant The Nix just to grow football in Auckland.

Finally, all other Trans-Tasman competitions are not subject to overarching regulations by regional and global federations, and do not seem to have the same long-entrenched political infighting over serious money both from TV broadcasters and from FIFA. Note that I said "do not seem to have", so anyone with an insider's view on netball, basketball, NRL inside politics etc is free to correct me.

I also think that Auckland lacks a cohesive identity that fans can rally round. The Warriors are tied into a South Auckland/Pasifika identity and that seems to work well for them. I'm not so sure about the Breakers as I don't really follow them, but I get the feeling that people in Auckland don't rally around teams representing their city in the same way that people in other cities do. I honestly think that a Christchurch team could almost be a more sustainable option but they aren't a big enough market for the FFA. 

An Auckland team might work but it would have to have a clear connection to the local football community in some way. The lack of appropriate stadiums in both size and location is also an obvious issue. Maybe a South Auckland based team also playing at Mt Smart and trying to tap into migrant communities there could work? What do Auckland based feverites think would be the best way to build an Auckland team?

I agree that on paper we here in Christchurch look like a better fit than Auckland, because of a more cohesive identity and a surprisingly strong and easily identifiable old English migration, I think there are other pro- and con- factors though. Money would be a problem, due to smaller commercial base unless grassroots support for a number of smaller local teams can be channelled into a bigger franchise, but local clubs would fear money drained from them unless external backers are involved.  On the other hand we have a good local stadium and a very good local academy now happening funded by a Russian migrant with seemingly endless oodles of cash and passion for the sport.

Auckland has more population growth happening than Adelaide, a city of the same size, where the original second (NSL) club (West Adelaide) is still unable to get into HAL - but football tradition, of several generations, is what keeps the passion going and I am yet to see where Auckland has that. Yes we could try and translate the Auckland City FC into a HAL franchise, but I do not feel qualified to discuss local Auckland scene as I do not live there.