Fritz Schmid - All Whites babysitter

I'm happy with Schmid, but I would have also been happy with Ramon. I think Ramon has done every he can domestically and at the CWC to prove his worth.

In regards to Ramon's apparent lack of qualifications, am I being too naive when I ask how is a semi pro coach meant to get time off and fund multiple trips and fee instances in order to get his pro licence? 

He definitely gives it a bit more than a tweak, but the principles stay pretty much the same, often I feel to his teams detriment in the Handy, where I think they can look a bit pedestrian.

I guess he can either fund it himself or work for a club which will support him to get the license.

Very hard as mentioned in the article for anyone in NZ as the courses aren't offered over here. Then again, to be devil's advocate, IIRC Ramon spends quite a lot of time back in Europe in the off-season, so it's not like he's tied up with ACFC 24/7 every day of the year.

Not sure if playing/coaching experience gives you 'extra credits' - as I seem to recall it's always easier for former elite players to gain these sort of quals.  He probably misses the mark there, but having coached at national level/OFC/CWC might help him a bit?

Which could get even more shambolic - FIFA is now considering stripping Qatar of the hosting rights over bribery allegations. FIFA? Corruption? Never thought I'd see those words in the same sentence.  

http://www.goal.com/en-ae/news/fifa-edge-closer-to...

Ramon could move to one of the less resourced Handy teams to prove that he can have success with less to work with, then he might be a proven candidate for the Nix or AW jobs.

Why on earth would be do this? 

He's had remarkable success at Auckland City, playing some of the best football in the league, and often preparing the team to be competitive against fully professional sides in the Club World Cup.

Why should he take a step down, rather than a step up, just to prove to some nobody on the internet that he is actually a good manager.

This is absolute rubbish and attitudes like this just hold our game back.

Ramon took Auckland City to 3rd place in the Club World Cup - they won 4 games in 10 days and took South American Champions to extra time in the semi final - what he did was phenomenal - up there with the likes of Denmark and Greece winning the Euros.

and to say our National League coaches aren't good enough for the international job is bollocks

qualifying for the world cup is the most successful thing they can do, Ricki Herbert had won a National League and been 2x runners up with Central United, which got him into an assistants role with the All Whites

John Adshead never coached National League before he got the job but he did win the Northern League and Chatham Cup double with Manurewa and he went on to coach National League after the World Cup

Outside of the world cups, our next most successful coach was probably Ken Dugdale, (ONC winners, Confederations Cup & Merdaka Tournament winner) He coached Miramar in the NL, not successfully but took Wanganui Athletic into the national round of the superclub version of the NL. He also coached at Petone and worked extensively within the NZ system developing age group players. He set up the Ole Academy with Dave Wilson,

Of the other All White's coaches since 1982 that coached in the NZ National League

Allan Jones went on to coach National League after stepping down from the All Whites job

Kevin Fallon won the league with Gisborne City before he got the main job

Ian Marshall won 2x National League's and a Chatham cup with Christchurch United, then got the All White's job

Keith Pritchett won 3x National League titles and 3x Chatham cups with Waitakere City, then got the All Whites Job

Mick Waitt won 3x National League titles and 1x Chatham Cup with Napier City Rovers, then got the All Whites Job

Neil Emblem won 3x National League titles with Waitakere United, then got the All Whites Job (well the interim job)

Ramon has won 5x premiership titles (ie top of the league) and 2x Grand Finals and 7x Oceania Champions League finals but yet he isn't qualified enough to even get an interview for the job!

The 3 most recent imports for the job before Schmid have been Hudson, Joe McGrath and Bobby Clark.

Bobby Clark was good but left pretty quickly when he realised the state of NZ football - but he did play a key role in setting up the American university scholarship path for kiwi kids.

Joe McGrath, was an Irish guy with a love for golf, that claimed he had assisted Jack Charlton when he had been Ireland manager, it quickly became evident that this "assistant" role was most likely Jack Charlton asking him to get the cones in after training or making him a cup of tea. Ironically besides Hudson he was probably the most qualified on paper of the All White's coaches!

Those are all historical examples JF, I'd like to think the game and our players have moved on a bit now and can understand why NZF are looking for someone a 'little bit higher' in terms of overseas experience. There have been some examples where overseas professionals haven't accepted the 'amateur' methods of local coaches, in football - Herbert is an example where overseas players have struggled, there are a couple of rugby league [Kiwis] examples too. Even at national league level in basketball the same applies, local coaches not quite up with the play in terms of training methods etc, while the local players are ok, the pros that have played in the Australian league, overseas and in the American college system, sometime struggle in the same way.

I know that this all depends on the individual coach, but it looks like NZF have put a high threshold on local coaches that want to be considered - I'm comfortable with that approach.

3rd at the Club World Cup is great, no one is denying that. To suggest it is on par with Greece winning the Euros is a joke though. 

I don't think we should be looking backwards, when we are at a time when we should be moving forwards, just because Kiwi coaches have had success doesn't mean the current crop will, and football is a vastly different place now than for literally all of those coaches, bar probably Herbert (and Hay if you count him). I'm not denying that many of them achieved well in the role, but if we want to be qualifying for the World Cup and improving the standard of football that the AWs play, there are far greater resources overseas to do that than in NZ.

The All Whites need to be playing at a standard far, far higher than the Handy. I'm not convinced that constantly beating up on smaller teams is what is required as experience for the AWs job.

For me, a coach needs to prove himself at a higher level than the Handy to be considered for the role. I'd like to think our national league is of the standard to churn out All Whites and coaching staff, but I don't see that as the case currently - in fact, it was considered a joke when Hudson called up National League players like Dyer. I would like it to be that way in the future and I see the appointments of Heraf and Schmid with current coaches in NZ as assistants as a step towards it and hopefully we can improve the quality of local football to the point where coaches like Ramon and Jose can be considered for the top job. I think Ramon and Jose are great coaches, and I don't agree with Ramon being excluded from the interview process based on qualifications. But, with the relative quality of football overseas compared to home, the best candidate is likely to be from abroad. Whether we have made the right appointment remains to be seen, and Hudson was certainly not the appointment we needed to develop NZ football as a whole. I thought he did as well as could be expected when it came to WC qualification, even if there are many, many questions about his time in charge (not the place to go into that though).

I have no clue how recognising this holds us back in any way. Identifying and addressing your weaknesses is how you move forward, not ignoring them and blindly hoping for the best. 

We can romanticise NZ football til the cows come home but the reality is that we should be aiming higher than what we have achieved in the past, and that means looking international to improve the game at home. I'd hope the current coach is aiming far beyond what any of the coaches you named achieved with the All Whites, bar Adshead and Herbert. 

I love it when someone lays into Jumpin' Joe. He is the classic example of how easy it is to pull the wool over the eyes of NZ Football.

Nearly all those coaches named by JF, had AWs' teams of virtually complete amateur players, plying their trade almost wholly in NZ. Much much different ball game today. Virtual whole full strength AWs squad are at professional clubs overseas, familar with fully professional team environments.

Just wonder whether experienced pros like Reid, Smith, Wood, Themi, Marinovic etc - who have spent very minimal time in NZ, say the last 10 years (with likely no knowledge of the Handy Prem) - would have much respect for a coach coming from an amateur environment in NZ. Appeasing high profile figures in NZ football like Declan Edge, Wyton Rufer etc will have minimal to no effect on AWs performances - but having a senior playing group with doubts about the boss's coaching CV, is potentially disastrous.

Of course unlikely that any of these players, would have heard of Schmid either. But at least they can see that he has a solid history around European traps.

Hopefully in 4 years, likes of Figueira will just be that bit more experienced, plus have the required quals!

I reckon this guy sounds hopeless. Very underwhelmed

what makes you say that?

broken clock Cassandra?

Lack of success/experience as a head coach. I dunno, why are we bothering with these third rate foreigners? I get it if we are getting top level guys but if we're mucking round with these punters why not give one of our own some experience. At least some NZ coaches and the NZ coaching fraternity woulc get something out of it instead of another person just passing through. 

But what NZ coach? Ramon is the only guy that comes close. But he seems offside with NZF, and I also have doubts our very top players may respect a coach coming from an amateur league. This is the AWs not age group stuff. Many of the top AWs players would know squat about the domestic NZamateur scene.

Have no idea how Schmid will go, but he is better credentialed than any NZ coach. As long as Schmid and Heraf also have a plan, to ‘upskill’ the best up and coming NZ coaches in the next 4 years, then plan is sound. I think appointments of Greenacre and Figueria as assistants shows that is the agenda. Hope it works out.

RAMON FOR COACH OF EVERYTHING

INCLUDING THE BLACK CAPS

...but everyone LOVES the corrector of a corrector!

I see what you mean.

Personally, I am very happy with Schmid. He is experienced and has a calm and sensible demeanor.

I'd call us a 4th tier nation and I'd call him a 3rd tier coach. Ancelotti, Mourinho, etc being 1st tier. The former big time coaches who do the African and Asian circuit like van Marwijk would be 2nd tier. 

I'd call Hudson an emerging coach, definitely below Schmid in the world, but with a lot of drive and currently coaching but unproven at tier 4

If we were going to get another Hudson, emerging and below tier 4, I'd share your opinion

I noted a post by someone on Stuff the other day, following a story about Schmid possibly becoming Nix coach. 

Poster accused NZF, that both Football Ferns games verus Scotland, and AWs game verus Canada were poorly organised shambles.

Implying they knew players or contacts in both teams.

Seemed to have it in for both Heraf and Schmid.

Must be true of course, like every rumour on here. But interesting comments in post Hudson era. Hope it ain’t so.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...

Hope it ain't so.

This rather interesting comment is at the bottom of that story:

"Not related to the story, but if stuff could pass this important mesage to Heraf please. Visit your Dr and ask them to check your thyroid. I have thyroid cancer, the lump in your throat looks like mine did. It may not be, but please get yourself checked."

If you look at the picture at the top of the article it does look like he has a very swollen gland...

Sort of Reddit solves the mystery again?
Pretty sure someone commented on a poster's eyes (from a picture) and discovered a brain tumour...

 Very interesting reading this article again after the changes at the National Congress this weekend. The article was bang on the money, clear issues with the process and annoyance that Heraf appointed his mate. Not really a pile of shark at all...

Funny really, generally sports fill their vacancies through this buddy network. Not so much in NZ sport though it seems. At the very least we seem to go through the process [charade???] of advertising and interviewing people for the job. With coaching anyway, you try and attatch yourself to a coach that is going somewhere and hang on for the ride.

Pretty clear the federations weren't happy with the process. 

Heraf's NZ academy idea probably hasn't helped either

Since my name was mentioned, allow me to respond: my specific skepticism applied to the following:

There have been threats swirling around for weeks from certain groups

Anyone who followed my comments in the OMG ROB MORRISON IS SELLING THE NIX TO CABRAMATTA thread knows that I have no confidence in unsourced rumours, and I think that people who believe them are gullible at best and deliberate trolls trying to start a panic at worst. I was honestly asking if anyone else had could confirm these "threats swirling around" - and if someone had said "yes" I would have accepted that as confirmation. It is not unknown for journos to just make shark up to get a story, as anyone following the work of Dominic Bossi could tell you.

Clearly in retrospect Hyslop was hearing from people who were bona fide. But I will not start believing unsourced rumours because in this case they turned out to be the good oil. And this is why I don't get sucked in by online hoaxes and urban legends.

So are we happy with how the team appears to be tracking under him?

Effectively a youth team - and they have grown game by game and it appears to me he is identifying how to get the most out of Singh and Jai Ingham.

I think if we weren't there'd be a pile of whinging going on in here right now

I think he's doing great

Would have been great to have had Collier here as these games have highlighted that we are very weak up front.  Only Wood and Collier have the goods.  Bevan was no standout here, and I’ve yet to be convinced he has the goods.  He may well be more of a Brent Fisher type then others mentioned over the last week or so.  It’s also clear that Billingsley should never wear white again.

Billingsley struggled but I don't think he should be written off. We didn't see it, but there is talent there

The fact that Schmit turned to him ahead of Rufer as a sub maybe says something

Says more about Rufer than it does about Billingsley.

Nice one

Billingsley is a 20 yr old kid!! He has potential to improve. Collier has really come from no where, last 6 mths and he is aged 23.