USA the better team. They deserve there lead. For us, only really a few glimpses. Again lacking a bit of intensity and that quality on the ball at times. But no point sitting off in this second half. We lose and we are out. Need to give it everything.
Playing the ball around at the back but actually going backwards while we do it inviting the press which we can't play through and we end up kicking it out 5 meters from our goal line... get clue people!
Yuck 🤮. This proves that we only made it to the knockouts because of luck. Lucky goal against Guatemala, and 2 unusual bangers against Uzbekistan. Everyone's hunch about the way we were playing was spot on.
After the success of Buckinghams U20's. I guess the expectation was high. Was Buckinghams team a golden generation quality wise, or were they just better coached. Not many from this team would have made it into Buckinghams squad. But I remember Buckingham flew around the world at his own expense, seeing and talking to players. Was selection a factor....
After the success of Buckinghams U20's. I guess the expectation was high. Was Buckinghams team a golden generation quality wise, or were they just better coached. Not many from this team would have made it into Buckinghams squad. But I remember Buckingham flew around the world at his own expense, seeing and talking to players. Was selection a factor....
Just listened to Bazley interview, my goodness! Not a 4-0 game he says. Looked more to me than that. Then says the Americans play in pro leagues, well how well did Des's boys do in the same level ? Lots of questions to be answered after this surely?
I think Surman, Hughes and Kelly Heald looked good at the back in a side ofte over run. Just no one in the mid to support them when defending or looking for options outside Conchie. That's what we really lacked. A midfielder.
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
He was really defensive in his interview, knows deep inside he's not made for it. Enough said
Just listened to Bazley interview, my goodness! Not a 4-0 game he says. Looked more to me than that. Then says the Americans play in pro leagues, well how well did Des's boys do in the same level ? Lots of questions to be answered after this surely?
Herdman was pretty decent but overrun and isolated in his role. I really don't think this tournament fostered situations from him to shine but he showed glimpses. He was running his backside off last game, far cry from the rest.
Today I recall McKay got caught under possession, ball taken off him and he stood and watched instead of trying to win it back. This team looked very uninspired and felt like they ticked off knockouts phase and were ready to go home. Ranix
siac
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
So has the coach for next years Olympics been announced. Hope like hell its not Bazeley.
I hate to break it to you, but they also haven't announced the senior mens coach! Bazeley still in the running... I'm sure the NZ football decision makers can spin him taking the U20s to the round of 16 into the full time senior coach!
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
Agreed, if they become good enough they'll get their chance in due course, there's no need to fast track them in. If Herdman gets solid MLS minutes and Surman stands out in the A League then by all means. If they don't ever break that cusp of prospect into senior player, then it's hard to argue they deserve it. In situ, however, Surman is ostensibly a Central League player - he only played 148 A League minutes across 28 matches, and Herdman is playing Next Pro, which is a reserve league and a lower level than USL Champ with guys like Collier, Dyer, Randall.
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
Agreed, if they become good enough they'll get their chance in due course, there's no need to fast track them in. If Herdman gets solid MLS minutes and Surman stands out in the A League then by all means. If they don't ever break that cusp of prospect into senior player, then it's hard to argue they deserve it. In situ, however, Surman is ostensibly a Central League player - he only played 148 A League minutes across 28 matches, and Herdman is playing Next Pro, which is a reserve league and a lower level than USL Champ with guys like Collier, Dyer, Randall.
There is a possible reason to fast track Herdman (think Stensness and Boyd)... so if he ever gets good enough Canada won't come calling. Although friendlies don't count for cap tying someone... so I'm not sure what matches NZ actually play that could cap tie him other than OFC qualifiers.
Things really fell off a cliff from a bright start to this tournament. After 1 and half games we had scored 3 and conceded 0. Next two and a half games scored 0 and conceded 11. Will be some tough learnings for this group. Be interesting to see if many kick on into the pro ranks.
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
I still completely agree, they were the obvious standouts with Conchie (less deserving owing to no senior footy). We didn’t lose because of them
I try to be upbeat and positive and generally uplifting when talking about football in this country. From the players, to clubs, right through to the national teams.
Even from the first couple of games of this tournament I thought "Hey, we're not too shabby" Not brilliant by any stretch of the imagination, but about par for the course with a lot of other sides at this U20 World-Cup, with some good individual performances and solid results.
No beating around the bush here though, these past couple of games have shown we are a long, long way off, and it hurts, and is disappointing to say the least.
If Bazeley gets any job in another National team set up for NZ then we clearly have no drive, ambition or expectation of ever stepping out of the shadow of sheer averageness.
Some players can hold their heads high after their performances at this tournament. But other than that, pretty ho-hum all around for the most part.
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
Agreed, if they become good enough they'll get their chance in due course, there's no need to fast track them in. If Herdman gets solid MLS minutes and Surman stands out in the A League then by all means. If they don't ever break that cusp of prospect into senior player, then it's hard to argue they deserve it. In situ, however, Surman is ostensibly a Central League player - he only played 148 A League minutes across 28 matches, and Herdman is playing Next Pro, which is a reserve league and a lower level than USL Champ with guys like Collier, Dyer, Randall.
There is a possible reason to fast track Herdman (think Stensness and Boyd)... so if he ever gets good enough Canada won't come calling. Although friendlies don't count for cap tying someone... so I'm not sure what matches NZ actually play that could cap tie him other than OFC qualifiers.
True, though the earliest possible cap-tying would be whenever the OFC qualifying starts. I wonder if OFC persist with the Nations Cup whether NZF will even enter the All Whites? They weren't planning to in 2020 for a tournament being hosted in New Zealand, let alone in the islands. So possibly as late as September next year could be the first chance.
Even then, the current rules allow under 21 players to still switch after a competitive appearance, so long as they have no more than three, so maybe push that back to November 2024. Herdman turns 21 in August 2025. The Canada head coach will also have no difficulty having a quiet word in his ear about being 'injured' for a window if he wants to keep Jay open for their own 2026 World Cup.
Well it was only a matter of time for Baz and the team to be found out. His interview was so negative and puts the loss down to a player who plays in the MLS instead of stating the obvious. The team lacked creativity, direction, drive, enthusiasm and looked as though they were halfway on the plane back to NZ. I don't think Baz had any real game plan and am worried for the next All Whites game. There was a lot of hype over a number of players coming from Europe and Phoenix which were mostly terrible, even Herdman went missing for the last 2 games just like Conchie. I think we can be proud of our defensive effort, they at least showed some resolve.
I think Surman, Hughes and Kelly Heald looked good at the back in a side ofte over run. Just no one in the mid to support them when defending or looking for options outside Conchie. That's what we really lacked. A midfielder.
Yes, Conchie looks good when he is given time but as I said before the WC started we lacked any creative midfielders.
Well it was only a matter of time for Baz and the team to be found out. His interview was so negative and puts the loss down to a player who plays in the MLS instead of stating the obvious. The team lacked creativity, direction, drive, enthusiasm and looked as though they were halfway on the plane back to NZ. I don't think Baz had any real game plan and am worried for the next All Whites game. There was a lot of hype over a number of players coming from Europe and Phoenix which were mostly terrible, even Herdman went missing for the last 2 games just like Conchie. I think we can be proud of our defensive effort, they at least showed some resolve.
Herdman only came on 2nd half vs Argentina and actually played with some intensity compared to the rest.
Well it was only a matter of time for Baz and the team to be found out. His interview was so negative and puts the loss down to a player who plays in the MLS instead of stating the obvious. The team lacked creativity, direction, drive, enthusiasm and looked as though they were halfway on the plane back to NZ. I don't think Baz had any real game plan and am worried for the next All Whites game. There was a lot of hype over a number of players coming from Europe and Phoenix which were mostly terrible, even Herdman went missing for the last 2 games just like Conchie. I think we can be proud of our defensive effort, they at least showed some resolve.
Herdman only came on 2nd half vs Argentina and actually played with some intensity compared to the rest.
I am not saying he did not play with any intensity when he came on, but what did he actually do. Did he create any opportunities to score or slow the game down and control the midfield? I thought the Argies were quite dominant in the second half and actually pulled the foot off the pedal. That's my view anyway!
i think we were quite nicely set up. the 4 4 1 1 medium/low block shape gave us a tidy structure, that was comenserate with our comparative status
mistakes will almost always be costly in a low block, and they were today. the US also had good movement and were often able to find space between the lines
i think we have a decent group of players here. quite a few are impressive, but there were one or two off the pace and wasteful with the ball; enough to drop the team's standard down a notch.
pedigree is a real issue. why are so many of our players not playing professional football? the phoenix hasn't accomodated these guys and they don't have a proper national league to play in (one round doesn't cut it). like a previous poster said, finn surman is effectively a central league player. this is a real issue.
Some quick thoughts. Sims saves that weak first goal, does the game unfold any differently? Think he is a very promising young keeper, but that was a howler. Problems with the sun? See he was wearing a cap later.
Many countries have a 'golden generation'. England, Portugal, 2006 Socceroos. It's looking more like that 2019 U20s team will be ours.
But did the 2018/19 Handy Prem help provide a stronger preparation for that 2019 U20s WC. That team was mostly spread over Nix/Weenix & Eastern Suburbs Handy Prem teams. Young guys that were getting tough games that summer against men at teams like Tee Dubbs, Auckland City, Canty United, Hawkes Bay etc. You'd have to agrue NZ's best domestic players were more concentrated in the old Handy Prem structure, than the current setup. I don't think the Weenix & ES guys that 18/19 summer had jobs (maybe part time students) they were almost pro footballers, playing in a tougher NZ comp week in week out. Coming up pretty regularly against likes of Clapham, Riera, Howieson, IIich, David Browne, Bevin, TAHW, Stevens, Stephen Hoyle, Schwarz bros, Ollie Bassett, Ifill etc.
That setup also allowed Des that summer to tour around the Handy Prem clubs, (basically Weenix & ES) and see his players regularly close up. Furthermore he wasn't distracted juggling 2 hats like Bazeley (interim AWs coach). Buckingham was pretty much purely focusing on that U20s team, even touring the world looking at prospects.
Did Covid and the loss of the U17 WC that many of these guys would have played in, hurt us more than most nations that get regular tough age group games in their confederations. It's pretty hard down in tinpot OFC yes to organise games, but surprised we didn't still take the domestic guys out of the Central & Northern Leagues earlier and try play Australia U20s at least, as prep. Seemed a bit ill prepared only going in with the Ecuador game pre tourney.
Have the recent problems at Ole hurt the prospects of our youth teams. That 2019 team had alot of starters from Ole/WS/ES. Whatever your thoughts on mad Declan and Ben Sippola etc, there had been a real production line (later Stamenic, Matt Garbett) of some of our best technical players. Would be bad for NZ Football if that didn't continue.
Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).
Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.
A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.
Agreed, if they become good enough they'll get their chance in due course, there's no need to fast track them in. If Herdman gets solid MLS minutes and Surman stands out in the A League then by all means. If they don't ever break that cusp of prospect into senior player, then it's hard to argue they deserve it. In situ, however, Surman is ostensibly a Central League player - he only played 148 A League minutes across 28 matches, and Herdman is playing Next Pro, which is a reserve league and a lower level than USL Champ with guys like Collier, Dyer, Randall.
There is a possible reason to fast track Herdman (think Stensness and Boyd)... so if he ever gets good enough Canada won't come calling. Although friendlies don't count for cap tying someone... so I'm not sure what matches NZ actually play that could cap tie him other than OFC qualifiers.
True, though the earliest possible cap-tying would be whenever the OFC qualifying starts. I wonder if OFC persist with the Nations Cup whether NZF will even enter the All Whites? They weren't planning to in 2020 for a tournament being hosted in New Zealand, let alone in the islands. So possibly as late as September next year could be the first chance.
Even then, the current rules allow under 21 players to still switch after a competitive appearance, so long as they have no more than three, so maybe push that back to November 2024. Herdman turns 21 in August 2025. The Canada head coach will also have no difficulty having a quiet word in his ear about being 'injured' for a window if he wants to keep Jay open for their own 2026 World Cup.
Last year's Canadian guest (Juneof86) said Jay Herdman was no where near the Canadian team. He was only in their wider group U20 setup after all. Doubt much has changed 6-12 mths later.
He's also got his large silver fern tat, so there should be a FIFA bylaw that says that is equal to playing 3 competitive matches to be cap tied! Herdman junior was born in NZ (unlike say Stensness). Everyone is different, but I think country of birth can create a stronger bond, than just straight parentage. I understand that mystery man Champness was born in NZ, so might explain him choosing us over Aus.
I think Niche Cache also mentioned that not all of the squad in Argentina will make it as pros, and some who weren't picked (aka like Alex Greive) will kick on.
Carlin @carlxn_
Disappointing end to the U20 World Cup; but that won’t be the end for those players nor should it be. This generation has a lot to still give
Even excluding the 21 who went to Argentina, these 39 players are just some of the quality local talent left out and there’s no doubt a lot more
Hi guys - USA fan stopping by to learn a little about our opponents today. Would love to hear perspective on the match from your side, some players from NZ to look out for and answer any questions about the US team!
The US team had a really strong showing in the group stage (although I agree as someone mentioned that it was a somewhat weak group). The technical level across our squad is higher than any we have had in our history, and that is definitely raising the floor of our play. The main weakness of our team I think is lacking finishers, especially when we play without a true center forward, which we often do since our only one is Darren Yapi #19. While he has shown some flashes, he is not one of our best 11. Our best CF in this age group, Ricardo Pepi, is a senior player now and the coach elected not to bring him. So, we may dominate possession and create a lot of chances but we may open up more and leave space for the counter the longer it stays 0-0 (first goal was 66' against Fiji but they couldn't take advantage).
Most of our players are squad level or in the fringes in MLS, but a few around Europe as well. I don't know how well-known they are outside of American soccer circles, so happy to answer questions if anyone has any!
Your Post would have come through about 1am NZ time (KO was 5.30am NZ time), but apologies no one responded earlier. Congrats on your win.
Quick question was ex NZ National coach, now ex USA interim coach Anthony Hudson, rated in the US football community?
Some quick thoughts. Sims saves that weak first goal, does the game unfold any differently? Think he is a very promising young keeper, but that was a howler. Problems with the sun? See he was wearing a cap later.
Many countries have a 'golden generation'. England, Portugal, 2006 Socceroos. It's looking more like that 2019 U20s team will be ours.
But did the 2018/19 Handy Prem help provide a stronger preparation for that 2019 U20s WC. That team was mostly spread over Nix/Weenix & Eastern Suburbs Handy Prem teams. Young guys that were getting tough games that summer against men at teams like Tee Dubbs, Auckland City, Canty United, Hawkes Bay etc. You'd have to agrue NZ's best domestic players were more concentrated in the old Handy Prem structure, than the current setup. I don't think the Weenix & ES guys that 18/19 summer had jobs (maybe part time students) they were almost pro footballers, playing in a tougher NZ comp week in week out.
That setup also allowed Des that summer to tour around the Handy Prem clubs, (basically Weernix & ES) and see his players regularly close up. He also wasn't distracted juggling 2 hats like Bazeley (interim AWs coach). Buckingham was pretty much purely focusing on that U20s team, even touring the world looking at prospects.
Did Covid and the loss of the U17 WC that many of these guys would have played in, hurt us more than most nations that get regular tough age group games in their confederations. It's pretty hard down in tinpot OFC yes to organise games, but surprised we didn't still take the domestic guys out of the Central & Northern Leagues earlier and try play Australia U20s at least, as prep. Seemed a bit ill prepared only going in with the Ecuador game pre tourney.
Have the recent problems at Ole hurt the prospects of our youth teams. That 2019 team had alot of starters from Ole/WS/ES. Whatever your thoughts on mad Declan and Ben Sippola etc, there had been a real production line (later Stamenic, Matt Garbett) of some of our best technical players. Would be bad for NZ Football if that didn't continue.
Yes, the more academies we have the better the football will become and COVID would have had an impact however NZF should have done more to prepare the boys.
Some quick thoughts. Sims saves that weak first goal, does the game unfold any differently? Think he is a very promising young keeper, but that was a howler. Problems with the sun? See he was wearing a cap later.
Many countries have a 'golden generation'. England, Portugal, 2006 Socceroos. It's looking more like that 2019 U20s team will be ours.
But did the 2018/19 Handy Prem help provide a stronger preparation for that 2019 U20s WC. That team was mostly spread over Nix/Weenix & Eastern Suburbs Handy Prem teams. Young guys that were getting tough games that summer against men at teams like Tee Dubbs, Auckland City, Canty United, Hawkes Bay etc. You'd have to agrue NZ's best domestic players were more concentrated in the old Handy Prem structure, than the current setup. I don't think the Weenix & ES guys that 18/19 summer had jobs (maybe part time students) they were almost pro footballers, playing in a tougher NZ comp week in week out.
That setup also allowed Des that summer to tour around the Handy Prem clubs, (basically Weernix & ES) and see his players regularly close up. He also wasn't distracted juggling 2 hats like Bazeley (interim AWs coach). Buckingham was pretty much purely focusing on that U20s team, even touring the world looking at prospects.
Did Covid and the loss of the U17 WC that many of these guys would have played in, hurt us more than most nations that get regular tough age group games in their confederations. It's pretty hard down in tinpot OFC yes to organise games, but surprised we didn't still take the domestic guys out of the Central & Northern Leagues earlier and try play Australia U20s at least, as prep. Seemed a bit ill prepared only going in with the Ecuador game pre tourney.
Have the recent problems at Ole hurt the prospects of our youth teams. That 2019 team had alot of starters from Ole/WS/ES. Whatever your thoughts on mad Declan and Ben Sippola etc, there had been a real production line (later Stamenic, Matt Garbett) of some of our best technical players. Would be bad for NZ Football if that didn't continue.
Yes, the more academies we have the better the football will become and COVID would have had an impact however NZF should have done more to prepare the boys.
Same could be said for the U17 girls. Sent to the WC with no preparation games except for the 1 hit out while they were at WC venue preparing for the tournament. Maybe this could be what the Aussie/NZ football ashes is used for every year. Age group games between Aus and NZ U17, U20 and U23. Overall winner gets the ashes trophy. Because not looking likely that's going to be a thing with the senior teams.
I think Surman, Hughes and Kelly Heald looked good at the back in a side ofte over run. Just no one in the mid to support them when defending or looking for options outside Conchie. That's what we really lacked. A midfielder.
Yes, Conchie looks good when he is given time but as I said before the WC started we lacked any creative midfielders.
Dibley-Dias would have been a very handy addition. Good enough to ride the pine in 2 EPL games.
