Qatar 2022

Completely disagree. Nobody will give a shark about playing Vanuatu to make the World Cup. They are a rubbish team.

Unless we play a two legged playoff against a half decent side from another confederation it would just feel like another bog standard match against a sub standard opposition that we win with relative ease.

the only semi decent crowd would be if it was Fiji - and played in Auckland, where a significant ex-pat population would turn out in force. But it would be light years away from those 3 playoff occasions

So you'd rather watch us play "valiantly" against a big team once every 4 years rather than qualify for a World Cup? It's not our fault the rules will change, so might as well embrace it rather than being miserable about it

I would like to be able to see my national team play at home against quality opposition (read top 90 in the world - not a lot to ask) in a game that matters.  

Rather than qualify for a World Cup? Who is paying for this team to come to NZ outside of a WC qualifier? Football fans in NZ have some very very strange priorities

Other than the cash, I don't think playing only two World Cup games every four years is great for our football.  It's probably preferable to what we have now, but being a part, at some stage, of the Asian qualification process so we get to watch our team play at home every now and then would be nice, even if it means we can't make the cup every time.  If we aren't good enough to make the top 8 teams in Asia we probably shouldn't be there.

Exactly this

You live in the UK? So did I once. If you love football it’s great, even better now as a Kiwi when you have Reid and Wood in the EPL, or others like Thomas in Europe. 

You can travel pretty easily to watch these guys play in high quality top leagues in great stadiums.

Meanwhile the Kiwi resident (including kids who want to see their heroes up close) football fan, hardly gets to see these guys live, andso it’s mostly just a sharkhouse OFC game. The buildup to and attendance to 4 yearly home playoff game was the one game, to get the blood and passion flowing.

Complicated further by real risk that NZ will lose its sole fortnightly, diet of live professional football soon if the Nix fold. Pretty dire then for the NZ football fan wanting to watch the beautiful game, of any real quality live.

No they don't.  You are deluded if you think playing Vanuatu over two legs to make the World Cup is worth celebrating.

After our showing over 2 legs against Peru, and the core group of AWs now playing overseas at a good level (witness record numbers in MLS) plus enough youngsters coming through - I’m optimistic this far out we’d be some chance, drawn against an Asian or CONCACAF side (Mexico probably excepted). Draw the South America pot again, and yes a lot lot harder.

For me - either stay as we are with 4 yearly playoffs, or better still try jump into Asian qualifying later stages. Basketball are doing that now.

Solely OFC will be complete sharkhouse and very sad for NZ football.

Yes it would be hollow making a World Cup, having beaten a OFC team(s) ranked probably lower than 150 by FIFA.

Bit like making & playing in the Confeds Cup. Nice to be at a FIFA tourney for a couple of games - but not the real deal, like 1982 & 2010.

In 7 if not 3'years it's going to be a reality. Stop bloody moaning about it. In a perfect world it would be great to watch us play top teams in every window at a custom built rectangular stadium which seats 25k. But it ain't going to happen so accept the fact we get a much easier qualifying path and be happy about it. Or will you not watch the World Cup because you don't think we deserve to be there? 

What might be a smart strategic decision by NZF, is to initially accept the easier OFC route in a bloated 48 team, 2022 or 2026 WC.

Qualify for that WC!

Bank the touted $20M (that is a shark load of cash after all) for WC qualification - into the International Teams Fund, which should provide financial certainty for all international teams (age group & senior) - for 10 odd years as a wild guess.

After that try to join Asia, which would be a heavier annual drain on NZF's pockets - with longer WC qualifying campaigns for all the international teams (age group & senior) - but bring quality regular games to NZ, lift the AW's profile from the OFC shark hole, bring Asian sponsorship opportunities etc etc.

Of course the old conundrum, would we even be welcome in Asia. 

Anyway just a thought.

 

I don't know if i would watch a World Cup in Qatar regardless. Fudgeing load of bollocks it's there in the first place.

I'll watch if we make a World Cup via an easy route but it's still sharke. I watch the Confed Cup, still good to see us there but lets not pretend qualifying means anything whatsoever.

I'm with you totally there.

Joining the Asian confed would provide many benefits in terms of gaining quality games  - don't forget there's the Asian Cup which would be great for us to enter in itself with some quality qualifying games and a chance to appear in a decent finals comp. with the best in Asia.

The Asian Cup Finals has been increased to 24 teams now and there are only 47 countries in the AFC - so more than half qualify, meaning our chances would be quite good. 

There are five regional football federations within the AFC (East Asian FF, West Asian FF, Central Asian FA, South East Asian FF, South Asian FF) each of whom also host their own regional tournaments. Each has 10, 12, 6, 12 and 7 members respectively.

Oceania would be one of the largest federarions within the AFC in terms of member numbers with 11 full members and three associate members (small islands who are not members of FIFA).

Oceania FF could retain some regional characteristics the same way the five existing constituent federations within the AFC do now.

NZ would be good enough to be seeded for purposes of Asian Cup and World Cup qualifying in Asia. Asian Cup qualifying:

• First round: A total of 12 teams (teams ranked 35–46) played home-and-away over two legs. The six winners advanced to the second round.
• Second round: A total of 40 teams (teams ranked 1–34 and six first round winners) were divided into eight groups of five teams to play home-and-away round-robin matches.
• The eight group winners and the four best group runners-up advanced to the third round of FIFA World Cup qualification as well as qualify for the AFC Asian Cup finals.

The problem too with the new 48 team World Cup is that we would only get two guaranteed games instead of the current three at the finals with groups of three teams.

Just a reminder/revisit - to join AFC requires approval from AFC, and approval from OFC for us to leave... Australia got both of those "permissions" after loads of lobbying, hence their move... our situation is different...

OFC will never grant us an exit, as without NZ it is dead and buried, done and dusted... letting Aus leave was a strategic move as the Islands figured they had more of a fighting chance if it's only us to overcome - or more to the point, extra places at FIFA tournies meant they were in with a shout... but without NZ, any shred of credibility evaporates and OFC folds - and politically, none of those involved (other than some people in NZ) want that to happen...

Why would AFC accept us? Australia was seen as bringing a market and some finance (even though they faced a LOT of resistance as the quality of their senior Men's side basically meant an established AFC team faced missing out of a WC every four years) - whereas we don't offer either of those in any great degree... geographically we add more travel/cost... and the All Whites are perhaps getting possibly good enough to challenge for a final qualifying spot from Asia - so why would Asian federations vote for adding another team that could deny them the goodies of qualifying?

In an ideal world, the Asian thing would be awesome - but unless there is some massive fundamental change in worldwide and regional football politics and administrative protocols, it's never going to happen... so thinking/speculating about it is a waste of time...

As an aside, the talk of splitting Asia in two, with "East Asia" absorbing Oceania, would only happen if FIFA created a sweetened scenario that made likes of Japan, South Korea, China and even Australia interested in it, and a similar sweetened scenario that made Iran, Saudi, UAE enticed to split away as a "West Asia" set up... again, anyone see that being likely?

They're certainly never going to do it to help NZ (seen as a developed first world country), or for the "good of football" - they already pump in development money for that, and OFC gives the Island countries chances they wouldn't get as part of an Asian confederation...

Just saying.

Its not like we are thrashing these OFC teams by huge margins every time we play them. I think you're underplaying what our actual ability is. We don't deserve games vs the top 90 teams in the world if we can't win well in Oceania.

I actually don't really agree with this, its very rare that we would have our absolute best 11 out against a Fiji or Solomon Islands team. Look at how we have performed recently against very good teams. We took it to Peru, across two legs, have held our own against the USA, Mexico, Japan was a tight scoreline too. Those are all big teams, and we did pretty decent against all of them. Even against Portugal, we were only 2-0 down until the 80th minute. I really think we're a team that steps up when we play good opposition, and look worse when we play shark teams. The west/east confederation split of Asia would be great for us I think

Agreed, I don't think a full merge of OFC and AFC can (or even should) happen.  I think that the OFC Men's World Cup spot should be absorbed into Asia, and the top 2  OFC qualifiers should enter into some stage of AFC qualification.  It would seem mutually beneficial to me (again excluding the monetary reward of qualifying).  OFC nations get quality games, and AFC gets another spot against theoretically weaker opposition - win/win.

I didn't mean to 'this' the comment. In the last 10 years, the AW's have scored 62 goals vs Oceania opponents and conceded 18. Regardless of individual results (including the horror in Honiara) that is basically a thrashing over 10 years of for and against. The argument that NZ would be a better team with more frequent and meaningful games against stronger opponents does seem difficult to argue against.

"Agreed, I don't think a full merge of OFC and AFC can (or even should) happen.  I think that the OFC Men's World Cup spot should be absorbed into Asia, and the top 2  OFC qualifiers should enter into some stage of AFC qualification.  It would seem mutually beneficial to me (again excluding the monetary reward of qualifying).  OFC nations get quality games, and AFC gets another spot against theoretically weaker opposition - win/win"

Totally agree with this Mike, but it's convincing AFC that it's a win-win that's the challenge - there's a big voting bloc there, and while the heavy hitters may think "Yeh, we'd smash NZ, no threat to us", the next tier down who might be aiming for the last spot would most likely not be so positive about the idea... but yeh, lobbying for that stage inclusion would seem more logical - but would also need serious resources to be successful...

Genuine question. What's FIFA's power in all this? 

They mandate the World Cup Qualifying paths, ie they could lump two OFC teams into final stage of WC 'Asian' qualifying, and AFC could do nothing?

So there could be a new type of 'Asian' qualifying path for Oceania, that neither AFC or OFC could prevent.

FIFA are not exactly predictable, so who knows what may unfold. How many forecast an expansion to 48 teams? Qualifying path 1982 AWs took, was vastly different to path for class of 2010. I don't think any speculating is a waste of time..................but I do think just accepting that our lot should be solely with the OFC minnows, is very sad for football in NZ.

Realise that NZF or even OFC have very limited influence at the FIFA smorgsaboards. However NZF/OFC could state a case that missing out on the 4 yearly playoff games (include always one high profile playoff game at home in Oceania) and the interest that brings, would greatly reduce the attention & promotion of football in the region. OFC maybe prepared to back that stance, if they could get two OFC teams rather just one team, into later Asian qualifying phases.

That's if NZF were interested at all in trying to have the AWs in some Asian qualifying phase, with big qualifying games at home - and try and grab one of those 8 Asian World Cup spots (grow to 9 if Oceania lost automatic spot?). They have never said much at all about this.

The East Asia - West Asia split is interesting. Many of the West Asia football politicians, have not been discrete with their dislike of having Australia in the AFC. Many hated the fact the Socceroos won the last Asian Cup, and that it was such a success in Australia. 

If the Socceroos win the next Asian Cup early next year - expect those stories & general animosity to resurface.

Australia's relationship with East Asian countries (Korea, Japan, China etc) is pretty sound. Don't rule out some type of split.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2u635b/af...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4596734/wh...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

Technically FIFA is its members so the only way they could lump two OFC teams into final stage of Asian qualifying would be if AFC agreed to it - but there are many ways the FIFA exec could influence AFC to vote how they wanted (world cups awarded etc)

"Top European leagues are set to oppose FIFA plans for adding more teams and playing days at the 2022 World Cup.

FIFA President Gianni Infantino wants to study a 48-team tournament plan that would add 16 teams, 16 extra games and at least four days to the scheduled 28-day event kicking off in November 2022 in Qatar.

That schedule would likely take another round of weekend fixtures from the English Premier League, Spain’s La Liga and others which already must shut down in mid-season."

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/euro-leagues...

Cool. 

Lets hop draw OFC draw the CONCACAF playoff pool ball, Canada qualify for that spot, we give them a good revenge smashing, and get 3 WC games in 2022, rather than 2.

FIFA talking about changing a whole bunch of their tournaments. 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43868703

Interesting proposals.

1. Making the CWC event only every 4 years - Auckland City would surely then have to consider an A League bid?

Not sure if they would be satisfied with only getting to the CWC on a 4 year cycle. Though if you can qualify for CWC in this proposed new format, the money for the 24 attending club teams to share, looks huge.

2. Nations League. Could this mean more meaningful games for the AWs?

Would the OFC teams be ‘absorbed’ into AFC under this format?

What many bemoaning the loss of the play of game is missing is that there is 1.5 spots available.  

We have regularly tripped up against the Islands and I for one can see us doing that again.  

If we come second, all you blokes who want that home and away game against a non OFC will get it.  

Of course NZF could always rig it so that we do come second and have Tahiti/Fiji/Solomon Islands/New Caledonia get spanked at the WC while we watch on from home during to losing the playoffs again!

Its 1 for Oceania not 1.5 and pretty sure that its for 2026 not 2022. 

Yes it is, 1 spot for OFC from 2026 onwards as they tournament is the first that will have 48 teams.

1.5 as the below states:

Play-off tournament[edit]

A play-off tournament involving six teams will be held to decide the last two FIFA World Cup berths,[17] consisting of one team per confederation (except for UEFA) and one additional team from the confederation of the host country.

Two of the teams will be seeded based on the FIFA World Rankings, and the seeded teams will play for a FIFA World Cup berth against the winners of the first two knockout games involving the four unseeded teams.

The tournament is to be played in the host country(ies) and to be used as a test event for the FIFA World Cup. The existing play-off window of November 2025 has been suggested as a tentative date for the 2026 edition.

Not sure that qualifies as 1.5 spots.

Agreed. That being said, 1.5 spots for Oceania would be MASSIVE if it ever happens.  Imagine WC money for the likes of Fiji, the Solomons, Tahiti etc - how much that would do for the region. 
Don't think that will be on the cards for a long time yet - but still a nice thought to have.

We have .5 now.  As I said to those who miss the playoff, play badly, come second and enter the mickey mouse lottery that we've been part of for years.  I'd rather take direct entry and enjoy those two plus games at the World Cup, while also knowing that finally NZF won't be run off an oily rag.

It’s a little bit easier to say that though if you live in the UK, where it’s possible to see our big stars like Wood, Reid and Thomas live, in big club games fairly easily.

Those 4 yearly playoff games disappear and NZ stays with OFC, ie no AFC qualifying path - and you will never ever see those guys play a big high stakes game in NZ again. To me that ain’t right. 

You have to look at the bigger picture though, more money coming in will be better in the long run and who knows, we may join Asia eventually. 

Getting direct entry will only hurt the development of the team, we need to be playing teams in Asia so we can test ourselves and improve and if we make it to the WC then it will have worth and a great feeling compared to direct entry.

I see where your coming from but its easier and cheaper to see Wood and Reid in White then in their club strips.  I'd never attend a West Ham game unless Leeds or Plymouth were playing them, can't stand the club.  

Watching them play for NZ in Russia, Peru or Timbuktu is much more fun too!!!

This is not a dig about living in UK. I lived there for 2 years.

But you definitely have far more opportunities to watch likes of Wood and Reid up close in big games.

Fact you do, or don’t is your choice. London Stadium never seems sold out for a Hammers games. The opportunity is there.

The lost of 4 yearly playoff, removes only opportunity for NZ football fans to see overseas stars live in a big game. OFC is shark.

With the 1.5 spots I'm not trying to be a smart ass but isn't it one and a third cause its 6 teams for 2 places (I'm probably wrong tbh)