Declan Edge - Let Them Play

Someone remind me: when is the timeframe for Wests to pitch for entry into the Handa?

Pffffft, go to Ole any day of the week and you will see someone from within NZ football circles there. Go to any of their first, reserves or U17 games and it will be the same.

You really do have to wonder about some of the rumours on this forum.

When Waitakere United go bust?

I heard the same as Baiter

There was (is?) a roll-out plan with a timetable; which I seem to recall had May deadlines for EOI.

Ditto. Makes me wonder what the issue is as Callum played massive minutes and did well, OPP broke his foot, Harry got some game time, Wilkins played a few minutes as a sub. On the surface, that looks OK. What is the lure of Hay?

Maybe Hay will make him Assistant Coach?

Apparently Declan isn't impressed that Ramon led people to believe his UEFA badges were legit. 

As to his pickiness about where his players go, I think he's deserved the right. Everyone who played against Miramar today, bar Hailemariam, have been with Declan for a significant period of time and they made a team stacked with TW players look like a pub team.

 He would have been happy for his kids to go to Team Wellington if they gave in to his demands to be appointed Assistant. Now it looks like Auckland is on the outer and Eastern Suburbs are all the flavour until something upsets him there.

As I understand it, it wasn't as simple as that. There was plenty on offer for TW if they wanted it, but it would have turned them into Wests under another name, instead of Miramar under another name as it is now, and Miramar people were never going to go for that.

Really, the demands I have heard included things about how training would work, with things working in an Ole style because he doesn't trust Jose to develop players properly. You're making it out to be an ego thing when really Declan was making clear that he wanted a continuity of training that they wouldn't get under Jose, but that he knew they would get under Ramon. I don't know what's going on with Eastern Suburbs other than I saw Hay at a Wests game a few months ago, but I imagine if Declan is upset at Ramon then he is trying to figure out if there is another coach he is okay working with.

Oh so he did not want to be Assistant, he wanted to run the show?

Sure, let's reduce it to that since you clearly think he his driven purely by ego.

I think Full Time summed it up quite well.   It is his way ot the highway

So what did he do to upset you then ?

He is a very good coach of young players and Wests play a great style of football. However, I am frustrated that he will not release players to at least trial for either The Phoenix or Team Wellington

You have come up with stories that the boys do not wish to play for them but of course its clear that Declan for various reasons does not want "his" players at  either but will send them to a lesser ranked  National league outfit in Auckland

I think Declan would argue that your ranking of where clubs are at is at best misguided, and I would agree, especially when we're talking about where young players will get the best development.

What's so difficult for you to understand ? They (Ole/Declan) are not interested in producing players for TW or WP. That's their prerogative. If you have a kid who wants to play for WP then join the WPA and see how you get on. If you want to play for TW then join the TW youth programme (assuming it still exists).

Have you ever spoken to him and asked why he wants to keep the players to himself or why he wants them to train with certain people around NZ ? Or are you just spouting the same bollocks everyone else does because he doesn't follow the NZF or WP line which would suit your interests ?

They is Declan. He rules but problem is he gets offside with everyone. NZFA, Auckland City, Phoenix.,Team Wellington etc.So his options are fast running out. Where is he going to go once he falls out with Eastern Suburbs?

Oh I don't know, how about Netherlands, Portugal, Sweden, US, etc where They/Ole/Declan have had players signed to professional contracts over the last couple of years, or the dozen US universities who take their players every year.

Stop thinking these kids should be satisfied to stay in NZ.

 Elijah Just can easily obtain a good contract in Europe most others will not. USA Universities as you will know are a mixed bag. Some are good others are very poor.

The fact is Declan needs a NZ National League Club .  Contrary to what you say he was keen on supplying players for Team  Wellington but they refused to  submit to his demands to be Assistant Coach and he then took his kids elsewhere.

any Ole at this 19s camp?

JD had a point he was making about 18 months ago. While you can argue that the Phoenix are a better pathway than ISPS sides, contrast that with the fact they are more than likely to play minutes (and for some of them significant) vs not seeing anything more than a training pitch for the Phoenix. Professional environment where they focus on football vs "amateur" environment where its work and then train.

There are arguments for and against but for young kids, I think there is more development to them playing rather than just being in a professional environment. It sounds like Declan tries to keep his environment a mimicked "professional" environment but there are arguments both ways to which is better.

The issue I have is that it should be up to the kids to which way they want to go and they should not be told (and I speculate) "Don't waste your time with the Phoenix". If they want to go there, let them go there. They train and get paid. The argument in favour of that is look at where Rogerson (a sharkhouse footballer) and McGarry have ended up.

This is where you're reading what you want into my words. I've not said he wasn't interested in them playing for him I said they aren't interested in producing players for them. Exposure to national league football is just another step in the journey but it needs to be a progressive step.

If TW weren't interested in following his training methods or having him on the staff then maybe they aren't the best place. You don't hand players over unless you are convinced where they are going is better than what you can provide.

The moment Wests get a national league spot, and surely it's just a matter of time, this will all be redundant as 3 of the 4 options you talk about will disappear.

You comment on rumours as if they are fact. I've heard the same rumours and have heard other comments about why players ended up in Auckland and not TW but I'm not going to repeat them because they are just rumours, I haven't talked to those involved to find out the truth.

Though, the 'Nix offer ISPS football for those that aren't in/around the first team - so minutes and full time training are available. Though I don't think the pros have the option (easily) to play in the winter which is a benefit of going ISPS/Wests throughout the year.

think so, but not sure who

know its going to be an issue for Wests when they play Onehunga Sports in Chatham Cup 1/4 finals as its same time as Oceania U20 qualifying and several will be with the NZ team

I would like to see Wests become a National League Club but I do not like your chances. Declan has upset NZ Football so the Old Boys Network will rally against you. 

Yes some coaches, club managers and officials have long memories way back to the the old National league days.

Although he might have a better chance now that NZF ain't quite the same "Old Boys Network" as it was.

is Gavin Larsen still involved with Wests national league bid? 

the danger with Wests being in NL is that Ole might decide they don't want to play in it for whatever reason and everything is poked. Would need some workings around what the representative 'club' is.

Well Wests would be the entity that held the license so they'd have to have a back up plan if Ole decided to withdraw its players, but in reality while that is a risk it's not a huge one

You might want to run that by Island Bay.

belter

Ole:Wests integration has made far more sense than Island Bay and proven to be the case. Wests national league club would potentially have quite a pool to draw from when you include Ole alumni wanting to return home. Larsen still involved? 

I (guess) that Ole see the national league setup as a replacement for players heading to us scholarships (and the variable quality there of). Keep players local before dispatching them professionally.

It's not about operating it as a destination for players. Would imagine the current overlap between winter and end of national league potentially painful...

OK its no, the Wests contingent are staying to fulfil their club commitments (ie the Chatham Cup) Singh and Cacace are also staying with the Phoenix for pre season

Pub football, best football.

https://olefootballacademy.co.nz/ole-football-acad...

so for the slow, anyone care to summarise the main or fundamental differences between the Phoenix academy and Ole philosophy wise?

Liam Hislop did some excellent articles on stuff.co.nz last year with all the Wellington academies, but here's the tl;dr.

Ole Football Academy

They are the benchmark for football development in New Zealand. Few, if any, organisation or club can match them for long-term development of players, with recent high-profile graduates including Ryan Thomas, Tyler Boyd (Edge's Hamilton project) and Tyler Lissette, and more than 30 others currently placed at United States universities. Edge has been there for five years, but has honed his process over a long period of time. They produce some of the most technically gifted footballers in the New Zealand age-group ranks, despite not getting what they would describe as "blue-chip", or best, recruits. That's done through a long-term commitment to developing each player.

Phoenix Academy

The most high-profile academy in the area, it's the one which most parents want to get their kids into due to the pot of gold of A-League football at the end of the development rainbow. But as the players are told upon arrival, they have only a slightly better chance than a leprechaun of dipping their hand into the golden - or yellow and black in this instance - pot.....And you can't help but get the sense from some of the players they think they've made it by making the academy. The coaches do their best to stop that, but things can quite relaxed at some trainings without senior players to push things along.