Manchester United (Part 2)

If Fred and Mata team up then we are bound to lose.

Playing on artificial turf - a surface that isn't even acceptable in the NZ Football Premiership is OK for Europe's second tier competition. Phenomenal really.

Unfortunately we're going to look shark tomorrow and someone is probably going to get significantly injured.

Well the first 45 was a tough watch. One clear chance created. Midfielders coming forward with zero movement in front of them. Fullbacks breaking forward with only one player moving into the box. AZ playing around and through our press like it's not even there. 

At this point I'll take a draw and escaping with no injuries on this surface.

Well we got a draw but Lingard picked up a hamstring injury in the 92nd minute. Lingard in current form not a huge loss but its another attacking option down. We really need Martial back now.

Positives from the game:

• Kept a clean sheet
• de Gea

Anyone else?

Basically a second string team of a side that's already very thin.

But make no mistake it was an appalling performance. Fred was horrific. Matic terrible. Mata invisible.

Dalot

The final whistle.

I really rate Dalot. Would like to see him a lot more, why are we wasting time playing players like Pereira, Mata and Gomes out wide. I know he was brought in as a fullback, but he offers a lot more out wide than any of them.

Dang guys that situation in the forwards is absurd. You've got a handful of guys nobody seemingly wants in the team, some guys who were turfed out that would probably be pretty handy right now, and then the guys you thought you could rely on are either in poor form or injured. It's a sad state of affairs. 

Is the main issue the club management i.e. woodward etc? The players? Ole? A combo of all 3?

Agreed. He can sort of almost cross too, unlike many others.

I don't know why endless managers insist on calling all our promising #10s wide players. Just play Gomes in there or play proper wingers!

I mean, we purposely played a weaker team. I'm actually OK with it - the fact only Lingard was injured is a big plus for me (the plus is that it was only the one player, I don't wish an injury on anyone)

I'm not as keen to blame Woodward as others are. The fact is there's been a line of failed long term planning based due to hiring managers with differing philosophies, that were all incompatible with the club in one way or another. I dobn't believe Woodward has sole responsibility of this - there's a whole commercial board (the glazers) as well as a football board (which includes Sir Alex and Sir Bobby) who can bare some of the blame.

I'm still of the opinion that Ole is taking the club in the right direction (step backwards to go forwards and all) - but even after Ole, we need to get over this line of thinking when finding a new manager: "proven winner", "success on the biggest stage" bla bla bla and fall back on "do they fit here", "do their squads behave like the ones we want", etc.

We will see.

Edit: also - when we see players like Harry Maguire let's be OK with paying above market rates for them. When we see players like Sanchez, let's not.

There are 6 Glazers on the board plus Woodward. Doubt AF or Charlton have much  sway. The Glazer family have taken 1 billion pounds out of the club and have ' invested' nothing. 

While I don't disagree with you, I don't think big figures at the club like AF would stick around if they didn't have any say.

He will stick around because of who he is and will be probably hoping that he will be around when things get better.

Sticking around for the money and the prestige!!

Interesting hypothetical at ESPNFC - what if Moyes had stayed?

Would we really be worse off?? 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/3953112/what-if-manchester-united-kept-david-moyes-for-his-entire-six-year-contract

Liverpool are winning the league lads. Got the rest of the season to get your head around it!

Not withstanding how sharke we are... every team we face is having the game of their lives. Full of energy and somehow facing up against United makes everyone becomes super clinical.

But we've also been friggen unlucky. And today that was summed up when Slabhead, Mr Headerer himself Maguire misses from 3 yards out and some kid on his debut decides to put one in the net from outside the box.

Recapping our league season so far:

1. Chelsea
2. Wolves screamer
3. Crystal Palace referee farce
4. Southampton missed penalty
5. Leicester win
6. West Ham shark
7. Arsenal lucky after defensive mistake
8. Newcastle decides to become clinical

With a bit of fairy dust it could actually be a different story.

Alas, I don't think any manager on earth could get more out of these players. Need midfielders that can pass the ball forward.

Apparently VAR checks don't count as stoppage time

Only 2 points clear from the relegation zone

I don't think Fred or Mata would start for Newcastle. That says it all really.

Need to hold our nerve with Ole until we can get a group of midfielders that would actually start for a top 4 team.

Ndidi-Tielemans-Maddison with a Neves thrown in for good measure!

And Modric (on a free at the end of the season)

Bring back Wayne

I think luck has got bugger all to do with it. If you get touches in the opposition box you create luck (deflections/own goals/penalties) but we had two (!!) touches in Newcastle's box in the first half and one of those was Maguire's header. That's absolutely ridiculous by anyone's standards. Even if we'd been "lucky" and taken a couple of wins from the above, it wouldn't have changed the fact our football is absolute crap. If you can't create chances you don't deserve to win football games. 

Now some of my own thoughts. 

I said over on Twitter, the alarming thing for me aside from the performance, was just how predictable that result and performance was. I've never seen United play such terrible football. We haven't created a clear chance from open play in the last 180 minutes of football.

For me, Ole has to change to a 4-3-3 after the international break. Our 10, no matter who it is, has been absolutely non-existent. Mata was shocking again today. Play a 3 in midfield and give Pogba a bit of licence! 

I know everyone says Glazers Out, Woodward Out and I've said it myself on this forum and on others, but the manager has to take responsibility for the style of football we are playing. I know we don't have the quality we are used to but we should be able to at least create chances against Alkmaar and Newcastle. The build-up is so slow, and confused and predictable. Even the simple things - passing through midfield or out to the fullbacks and passes going either behind players or to the position they started from, rather than out in front for them to run onto. Something so simple just brings everything to a shuddering halt.

What does Andreas Pereira bring to this team? Probably unfair to single out one player from that but he was dreadful again today. Absolutely shocking. I believe it was him that played Willems onside for the goal too.

Easy to forget Rashford is only 21! The man needs a break but he's got the world on his shoulders and he's not going to get one anytime soon.

The Tuanzebe-Maguire partnership has promise. Axel's ready for minutes.

Liverpool after the break and it's not going to get any easier!

Yea luck comes and goes. Missing an easy chance is not bad luck, and the highlights of this morning's game suggest that Newcastle could've scored more. 

However the area where I think you have had very rotten luck is in the forwards. 

With Lukaku and Sanchez essentially being replaced by young guys looking to cut their teeth, it was crucial that Martial, Rashford and Lingard stayed fit and played well. But that hasn't happened with any of them. Now you're needing to rely on output from the likes of James and Greenwood which is harsh given their ages. Mata sounds like he's been very disappointing this season too. 

Again, it's not unlucky the situation we find ourselves in with our forwards. We shipped two international strikers out and didn't replace them and this exact situation (relying on Rashford, James and Greenwood) was inevitable.

Talk on one of the podcasts asking why we don't try a 5/3/2 formation. OK, it's never worked for us in the past but it's a different era now.....Dalot is a natural wing-back, and it gives us an extra man in midfield which would give Pogba a bit of licence

Mind you, do we have two forwards at the minute??

I've played in teams in a similar situation and I find it really hard to criticise the strike force too much.

All of those players are the sort of players that need space and service. As I said before, Mata or Fred wouldn't start for Brighton right now. We need midfielders who can pass the ball forward before dropping the sword on that bunch.

Maybe I'm just being part of the strikers club.

I don't disagree with you and I'm not criticising the forwards. I'm criticising whoever it was that made the decision that we wouldn't need anyone to replace Lukaku and Sanchez. You'll never see me criticising James and Greenwood for the situation we're in - we shouldn't be relying on them to score goals consistently for Manchester United at 21 and 17.

Mata, Fred and Pereria are the ' Three Stooges'  ably assisted by Young.

The players are the worst I have seen for United since 1974. However, Ole has to take some blame as he is just out of his depth at this level. You can't keep changing your manager but I think he should be gone at Christmas if nothing changes.

As I have said repeatedly, the management of the club is piss poor and until that changes we are going nowhere.  

Been listening to fan cams all morning and it's not pretty. Fans outside St James' Park absolutely fuming. "Relegation form" and "relegation battle" are constant phrases being thrown around. I tweeted the same thing (relegation form) when the game finished this morning. 

If we somehow get into a relegation battle we are f**ked. No way the mugs in this team have the determination and desire required to stay afloat if this happened.

Odds slashed on OGS being sacked, talk of Pochettino to replace him. 

Pochettino would be excellent for you guys in my opinion. Will surely win trophies if he gets to spend ManU level money. 

This article perked my interest but was a let down. I'll save you guys a read on this one, this is the last sentence:

"The most probable outcome, though, is that Moyes, like van Gaal, Mourinho, and Solskjaer, would've piloted the team to the same level they're at right now."

Spurs could bring in Redknapp or Sherwood on an interim basis to steady the ship. 

How much money would it take to prise him away though? Fairly sure he's got a handful of years left on his contract, and whilst they may be kayaking buddies I don't see Levy taking an ecumenical, accommodating stance in any compo talks. I do see him leaving but certainly not mid-season.

Unbelievable that people are even considering this. Without Pochettino's Champions League run his last 12 months have been atrocious. And Tottenham seem to be suffering from exactly what United is - no game plan, no vision, no direction, no energy. Only thing is they actually have a midfield.

So the whole ManU season so far has been down to bad luck, and Pochettino is a fraud, despite out-performing ManU for the last 5 years on a fraction of the budget. 

Sounds accurate. 

LOL

Eh come on Paul. I didn't actually say it was down to bad luck, what I actually said was "we've been sharke but [..] with a bit of luck" it could've been completely different.

Budget is pretty irrelevant - as mentioned previously it wasn't really possible for Ole to do any more in the window just gone with ending up with more Sanchezs or Di Marias. 

So lets be clear here. You're saying Solskjaer is at least the equal of Pochetinno in terms of managerial ability? Is that correct?