Manchester United (Part 2)

Current quoted price (as per BBC) is £47m, raising to £67m with add-ons. actually feels like a very good deal. Obviously the devil is in the detail of the add-ons, but maybe, just maybe, playing tight arses is actually starting to pay off a little...

I agree with you. However you do know that Liverpool have already won two competitions this season, right? 

Yes,and while not downplaying the fact that someone has to win them, both wins are based on the previous season and are made up of a total of 3 games.

Clubs go through phases of teams and when you are talking about great teams, I think the 99 Treble team still comes second to the 2007-2011 United team who won three leagues, a CL (incl. 3 finals), two league cups, and an intercontinental cup in 4 seasons. All when the rest of the league was great and Europe had amazing teams too. 

I've been listening to the Man United Official Podcast, and it's a really good listen. A lot of the players talked too say that the 2008 Man U team was better than the Treble winning team.......so take that as you will.......

No team can be 16 points clear without some luck, but no team can be 16 points clear just by being very lucky.  They are far and away the best team in the league, luck or not.

they were bloody lucky Klopp signed for them!

United, well, tbh they're doing okay, but they've burned through their playing staff to be there. They need Rashford and McTominay back and fit. And a drip feed of better players until there is real squad competition. Even then, there may be a ceiling on their achievements with this style. However they've shown they can beat (and lose to) anyone this season. 

Will ManU prevail this morning?

Thoroughly enjoyed watching that, some good football and while a win is nice its not really a win. That sort of thing shows what Ole should be able to produce with a competent squad.

Best bit was him screaming "Jesse, one more time and you're fudgeing off". 2 minutes later, Lingard loses possession and Ole drags him. Beautiful to watch and I hope we never see him again now that Bruno is here.

Link to beautiful moment: https://streamable.com/u7jva

I missed the last 30 minutes unfortunately. Positive to keep City goalless and technically win the game.

Ole yelling at Lingard is indeed beautiful and puts to bed some bizarre criticism that Ole is too nice. Just because he doesn’t berate his players in press conferences it doesn’t mean he’s nice. 

Exciting that Bruno is done. Looking at our squad now, if we can have a similar summer window to last summer (Maguire, AWB, James) we’re in a decent place. 

I don't think they'll have any chance of winning the African Cup of Nations :)

I agree. Even when talking individual seasons i would put 08 United above 99 United. All down to opinion mind you.

Also, insert mandatory rant about the cynical fouls City gets away with. Then Kevin Friend decides he's going to give Matic a second yellow for it.

Honestly unbelievable.

Perhaps the stats tell a different story.

City's 13 shots to 6

City's 61% to 39 % possession 

City's 88% to our 80% accuracy passes

City's 11 fouls to our 11

City's 8 corners to our 0

Go to Spec Savers.

You're completely correct, twice as much possession for the same number of fouls. And they were only the fouls Kevin called.

It was a great result today but as a team we were second best. We have too many players that are not up to the standard required to win this league.

So Ole once again coaxed a great victory out of a weaker team?

I gotta agree on that 2007 - 2011 team. They were very good. Winning the league 2 or more times consecutively is very very hard. To get the squad up mentally to go again like that is extremely tough.

Also important to remember that luck most certainly played a part in 1999. ManU were famously behind in injury time in the champions league final, and the FA Cup semi-final win against us was the unlikeliest of victories, still gives me nightmares. ManU a man down and Bergkamp with a penalty to knock ManU out in the last minute. Bergkamp fails to score (never takes a penalty ever again), then Giggs goes the length of the pitch in injury time to score against the run of play. Obviously the team's mentality was amazing, and that played it's part, but a huge element of luck there as well.

I distinctly remember thinking in 2006 that I thought ManU were done. They hadn't won anything for a couple of seasons, the famed generation were starting to fade out, I thought Ronaldo wasn't cut out for the prem initially, I thought perhaps this was coming to an end for Fergie. Of course Ronaldo exploded and worked fantastically well with Rooney, Vidic and Ferdinand were a beast of a combo, Ferguson worked his magic and the rest is history. The point someone made about English sides being the better sides in Europe at the time is an important one too, because English sides were more or less dominant during that short period, with the prem "big 4" all making semis and finals pretty regularly from 2005 - 2011 or so.

Yes but Utd won the league 3 times in a row in  98, 99 and 2000 so no different to 06, 07 and 08.Also remember that a few of the players were in 98 and 2008 sides.

Excellent point Leggy, brain fart there from me, didn't even think about that. So the 3 leagues is not a point of difference at all.

Kinda an apples vs oranges comparison then a wee bit I guess. Can't compare a single season side with a full era of players really.

I liked both teams but for me it was the understanding between Cole and Yorke that I remember most.

Pleased with the Ighalo loan. He's a body and at least he gets the chance to fulfill a boyhood dream. Hopefully he gets a few goals for us in the process.

Oh yes, just what we needed. 

Can United put a run together? otherwise its the hope that kills you.

Lots of whinging about the disallowed Chelsea goal for Azpi's push and saying Maguire should've been sent but from what I saw Anthony Taylor and VAR both had good games. 

Solid result, good clean sheet and once again a great tactical switch from Olé against a top 6 side. You love to see it.

Now even taking into account the natural bias we have for our own teams you cant seriously believe this?

Maguire quite clearly kicks out, much the same as Son did that got him sent off.

Azpi was shoved by Fred i think it was in the same play and was pushed into Williams.

I think the Maguire incident isn't a red card because you can see that there isn't excessive force behind it, otherwise Rudiger would be pushed back, not just sore from studs to the nuts. Maybe its violent conduct, but I just don't think it meets that threshold. I think that if Taylor had given a yellow for unsporting behaviour, then no one would have much of an issue. But VAR cant give out yellows. 

I think Fred just leans into Azpi, like anyone would do anywhere on the pitch and its not a foul. Its a smart way of getting our body in, or disrupting someones movement at a corner. Its unfortunate that Azpi then pushes Williams, but I think that the 'push' that Fred gives Azpi wouldnt be looked at as a potential penalty for Chelsea, so its a good VAR call. 

I'm going to have to dissagree on the Fred one. Watch again, he's leaning on him like you said then at the end he puts a shove in with his right arm.

Yup pretty much. Its pretty clear that Maguire isn't doing any more than taking Batshuayi's weight in case he falls on him - there's no force or intent there whatsoever and when you watch in real time there's really no "kicking" motion. He just lifts his leg to protect himself.

Fred barely touches Azpilicueta, he's going through Williams whether Fred is there or not, imo.

Just listened to a former referees perspective and he pretty much reiterated what I thought. Fred's contact on Azpi was not enough to be deemed a foul, you have contact like that, even with the arm, many times during the game and more so at corners. And you cant ignore that Azpi's push was a foul on Williams and it meant he didn't get to the ball. Foul = no goal. 

The former referee also said that Maguire not faultless but because it wasnt able to be deemed as violent then VAR can't give a red card. But he said that he should have at least got a yellow. If the VAR had given it a red, then it would have also been justifiable. Another one of those 'orange card' type situations. 

Maguire  was lucky not to have been sent off.The replay showed he made a second movement towards Batshuayi.

Ex Premier league ref , Roy Keane and a few other pundits reckon the same. 

Good result for us.

I think the only true aggrievance is Maguire's red - he should've been sent for violent conduct. Maguire's reaction saves him big time and even calmed the Chelsea bench down.

Otherwise, Giroud was offside (wasn't as close as many we've seen this season) and Azpi totally pushed Williams. What Fred does to Azpi isn't a foul anyone else on the park, and two handed pushing someone in the back is.

Fundamentally Chelsea couldn't put the ball in the goal which is the same problem they've had against us all season.

Two away wins against Chelsea and City in the same season. Now got to do it against the so called lesser teams and I'm looking forward to seeing Bruno's influence in these type of matches. Could watch his delivery for Maguire's goal all day long.

Maguire, pre United won virtually every corner I've seen him take part in. Turns up United and can't get near it.

Then we sign someone who can actually deliver a set piece... goal.

Bruno's delivery does look a lot more consistent than we've seen so far though, so hopefully Slabhead gets even more chances

I think that's probably because they're slow, lobby, and not in the right place (so hard to make a decent run for!)

He's won a few headers but they've all been off floated, up and under corners to behind the penalty spot. Amazing what happens when someone can whip one into the danger area with pace. It's been like watching Nix corners at times.

Haaland's form shows what I know about football. Woulda been worth it for half that out put.

While I agree that the output is undeniably incredible, to concede part of your culture as a club (to not be a selling club / one that players go to develop) for results right now, is what we have been doing for several seasons now and it hasnt worked. 

Bringing in Zlatan, Sanchez, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini are not what most would expect to be United type transfers. Sanchez in particular has ruined the wage structure. 

The kid (and agent Raiola) wanted a buy out clause and sell on percentage. We decided that it wasnt worth it. Especially given how Raiola is behaving at the moment with Pogba, I am still content that we didn't get him. 

Pogba will struggle to stay on side with the club at this rate. If he wants a deal to be sold then he needs do that with the club, not against them. And if he wants to stay (which I highly doubt it) then he needs to fire Raiola

I'd be more than happy for the club to draw a line and say they're never touching a Raiola client again

Still undecided on the whole Ole thing.   Not sure if he is the right man for the job but I have seen some small signs he has made a positive difference. For the most part all his signings have been improvements, a couple of them not as great as I would hope but there are indicators forward. In terms of goals scored and table position thats been a bit disappointing  but I do think there is a good chance that a couple more decent signings over the English summer and a fully fit squad could see us become rightful contenders for top 4. The jump to competing for the title is still a way off and that may be a step too far for Ole but it looks to me like he is at least building a decent backbone.