Manchester United (Part 2)

I knew I should never of counted on you guys

If Man City are known as the noisy neighbours then Man United are  now known as the neighbours that pull their blinds early.

Pogba in PFA team of the year, at the same time ManU fans want him out of the club, has that happened before???

TBH I've no idea how he got in there! Some talk that the voting was happening a few weeks ago when he was going great guns during ManU's rich vein of form. Makes sense I guess, but shows it is a bit of a poorly-timed system. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6959815/Sportsmail-reporters-pick-Premier-League-Team-Year.html

The whole team, like all individual awards, is a bit of a joke anyway isn't it? Aside from Pogba...

Mane over Hazard (carried Chelsea all year)?

Bernado Silva has played RW most of the year hasn't he?

Have Alexander-Arnold and Robertson really been the best two full backs in the league?

watched a bit of fan reaction- their view is it would be crazy to sell Pogba.  Need 5 players and then you're going to sell the only world class player you've got?

Pogba isn't your captain. You need some other senior players around him to set culture. But he is world class.

Fan reaction guys were blaming the club and Woodward.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Paul-Pogba-truly-world-class-or-simply-rode-off-the-back-of-world-class-players-at-Juventus

Well- he's better than John Oshea? He's one of the better players currently at United? And if you sell him who can you bring in?

Really? John O'Shea left Utd in 2011.  :)

Bring him back then.

The club needs to get the best out of him. If they can't do that they need to get an adequate season out of him, possibly two. Money won't fix the club- repairing reputation and standards will. And building the squad. 

Good management is needed at all levels. And managing Pogba is a part of that.

You are either a troll or an idiot. O' Shea is 37 years old. Pobga  is a  clown that Utd should never have brought back to Old Trafford, it was a Woodward decision because he thought that it would increase revenue, which it did. 

As I have said many times before, AF got rid of him because he knew he was a trouble maker. 

Or it was a joke? An idiot would be advocating sacking everyone and buying a whole new team. Even if you want to get rid of Pogba you probably need to retain him for at least at a season simply for the logistics of renewing a squad. 

Definition based on....? I hope its something more than just the fact he has a World Cup winners medal ?

Is De Bruyne world class ?

But anyway, the whole game of trying to define whether someone is "world class" or not is futile & as a sole barometer to determine having them in your team is somewhat foolish imho.

And as for those who judge an individual players "worth" by medals, here's something else from the O'Shea era ..... Anderson has 4 x EPL winners medals & Gerrard has none... Even as a United fan I know who I'd rather of have had in my team.

Okay lazy label. He is a very good player. And yeh De Bruyne is one of the top players in the world.

Who do you bring in if you jetison Pogba and who are you proposing to try to build around? Plus another 5-6 players. 

I'm saying even if you don't like him, he may need to be in the team and be well managed.

It has absolutely nothing to do with liking him. 

He has made a rod for his own back by using his social media and making comments  about ' how wonderful it would be to play for Real ' etc. I personally think he is not that bright. I don't remember Ronaldo harping on about Madrid like this clown.

And the bs with blue hair dye

You can also add these stats. It is no wonder the fans don't rate him. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6965589/Paul-Pogba-spent-time-WALKING-Premier-League-midfielder-season.html

Pogba is top class but needs to do it more often than not to be world class. He would get away with his social presence if his football presence was better. But I still think he deserves to be in that team of the year. 

Pogba within a balanced side (some decent leaders and senior players as well as youth and potential) would be world class (refer to Juve comments). United just don't have that balance or squad planning at the moment, hence the inconsistency. The players at the moment either look too old and past it or too young and not up to it. 

Since Moyes was here, we have let Evra, Rio, Vidic, Fletcher, Evans, Rafael and Rooney all leave. Leaders, those with a United passion and style about them. The best leader we bought in was Herrera and we have let him run his contract down. Valencia and Young have been kept simply because there are no other leaders. And now De Gea is stalling on a contract, same with Rashford apparently which is remarkable. 

Keep Ole with a plan, because other, more experienced managers without a plan has clearly not worked out. 

So where are all the people that reckoned Ole was the right man for the job?

Poor management to sack a manager and appoint an ' interim manager ' until the end of the season, then  give him a 3 year deal before the end of the season. A smart CEO would have waited until the season end. Bet he would not have got the job if they had waited until next week. This crap management has been going on for a few years now.

Right here, and still here.

Perhaps waiting till end of season would have been smarter, but things like this often happen early not because it's convenient but because clubs like Molde actually need to plan ahead.

Also the only other worthy candidate was Pochettino - who's had an abysmal few weeks with Spurs. Worth noting that since Ole took over, we're still 3rd on the table.

Ole is sorting out the culture. If we can sort out some of the players over the summer as well then times are looking up. I'm really interested to see who Ole wants to (and can) bring in.

I doubt very much that it had anything to do with Molde needing to plan ahead.This is Utd were are talking about.

You and I have no idea that Poch was the only worthy candidate. He is still in the top 4 and could possibly be in the Champions League final.

I am not saying he should have got the job but he certainly had more experience than Ole. 

This time next year he will be looking to go back to Molde.

"Experience" is how we chose 3 managers and destroyed the culture in the first place.

That is crap. All 3 did no such thing. More like some toxic players did.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6994895/Furious-Gary-Neville-tears-Manchester-United-apart-TV-commentary.html

The problem is both the managers we've selected and the players. If you don't think that Moyes, LVG and Mourinho had an influence on how far we've fallen then you're delusional. Yes players are to blame as well, as is Ed Woodward. OGS has a better chance of righting the ship than any of the above though.

Not unless he gets 6 quality players.  I give him until next  December  before he gets the flick.

Not sure why you think he will be able to right the ship, cause he has never been in this position before.

, 

He knows what a functional dressing room is like, he was in one at Utd. He will have to bring players in. The players will have to have the right quality and approach to the game. It won't be easy, but at least he knows what the ideal standard for Manchester United is - Moyes showed he didn't, LVG couldn't play the right football to do it and Mourinho was too much of a cod. Maybe OGS is another mistake, maybe he isn't but we played the best football we've played since SAF left under him. I'm hoping he stanps his mar on the team this offseason.

Football is super fun to watch right now

Excellent points here imo

The changes needed at United depend on people buying into a vision / plan. Ole might know what he wants but will players, the scouts, the board, the academy coaches, the medical and fitness staff follow the same direction? I think its unlikely, as GNev rightly pointed out, there are people from 4 different managers and eras, all with different perspectives and methods. The clubs at the top are those where the whole club are on the same path and are all buying in. 

Jeez, that seasons a wrap thankfully. Lots to do, lots to change.

I cant even muster the strength to poke a stick at the Loserfool fans with memes of skeletons or decaying buses waiting for a premiership victory tour !

But to keep my sanity through the off season I'll just remember an old quote from the Anfailed thread instead

Hmmmmm....

I am glad that is over. Optimism is low. 

Thank you for your service Ander Herrera and Antonio Valencia - True Reds that wore their heart on their sleeve every time they put that United shirt on. Something I can't say about too many of the current crop of United players. That in itself is a sad indictment of the current state of affairs at the moment. 

Really, really, really can't understate how big a loss Herrera is going to be to United. He was the type of player we need and could build a competitive team around, and now he's off on a free while Young and Jones got contract extensions for doing fudge all, it's just madness, it's woeful, it's nothing short of a shambles.

Still believe OGS is the right man for the job, he understands how this club ticks and the mentality of the club from when he was there as a player, even though it will continue to be a baptism of fire for the foreseeable future. After several years of styles and ideals that generally conflict and contradict with what United had established under Sir Alex Ferguson, we've gradually moved through periods of what is an identity crisis. We moved from a time when no one was bigger than the club, discipline was paramount and players played for that badge on their chest week in week out with a passion and desire to be the best in England, Europe, the World. Now we're talking about being in the Europa League and fighting for a spot in the top 4. Unfathomable for a club like Manchester United, but unfortunately not unforeseeable either. 

There are several players that should hang their heads in shame at the season just gone, they've let themselves and the club down. Big hypothetical here too, but if Fergie was still around I could count on one hand the players that would be in his setup - Lindelof, Shaw, Herrera, McTominay and Rashford. Even then, Herrera is walking away on a free all the way to Paris...

Anyway, that's my take on the scope of the rebuild that we need to go through and my feelings around this team at the moment. I love United, but damn, what a load of work to undertake over these next couple of months. Looking forward to see who'll be coming in, but will have just as much interest in who'll be shown the door too.

Herrera was great but, the club is trying to resolve issues around wage structure. This is something that needs to be sorted, and unfortunately Herrera looks to be the collateral damage. He wore his heart on his sleeve every time he played and for that I commend him. But he's chosen to take one more massive contract for the twilight stage of his career, so I'm not losing too much sleep over his departure. We also don't know how long a contract he's signed with PSG - if it's 5 years at stupid money then I'm not surprised. Herrera will be a Matic styled liability within 2.

It's all speculation - but Jones and Young are squad players that have been pushed beyond their talent level. Chances are they actually have some of the better attitudes in the team. I think they're probably a positive influence at training and in the dressing room. The problem is their footballing talent has been put under a microscope because we don't have anyone else. They're squad players, so hopefully their salary reflects that and we can put a fair few layers of quality and youth between then and the starting XI this transfer season.

Our clubs are in a terrifyingly similar space right now.

It's going to be another long summer - being linked with every player under the sun. If we go and sign Bale it will prove that those running the club have learnt absolutely nothing over the last six years. 

Only silver lining so far is City winning the Cup meaning we don't have to go and qualify for the Europa League in the middle of a normal pre-season. 

Im guessing you are too young to remember when we were relegated. 

Im not having a go at you and its not directed at you but the very thing I used to hate about Liverpool fans in the 80's now seems to be common among Utd fans. That sense of we are utd so we deserve to win. I remember the 77 cup final, for me that felt just as good as the Champions League win in 99.  Any trophy is to be enjoyed and the expectation of trophies just because we are a "big" club is something I despise, it smacks of a lack of respect for what sport is all about.  I see lots of fans on here of clubs outside the so called big clubs and I have more respect for them than the majority of Utd fans. 

Hope they give Ole enough time to replace the dead wood and set up a new fresh squad. Its the pressure of that entitled fan expectation thats one of our major problems.

Yes there are more ""fans"" these days that think they are entitled to win stuff. They are a problem because they tend to bring more money / exposure to clubs when they express opinions I would hope that most fans do not think United is entitled to win stuff. 

However, I would think that most fans of most teams would think they are entitled to having their clubs do things more right than wrong. And people to be accountable for their decisions. And for players, staff, backroom staff and management to support one another on the direction of the club. 

We are at a time where the club has the opportunity to take responsibility and get things sorted. But other than some interviews from Ole saying we will get the right people in the right places to do the right things, I am not hopeful. Actions not words please

Holy hell, didn't realise it had been a couple of months since I'd last been in here! I've probably worded it a little ambiguously in the above post, so will try clear that up.

Quite simply, no, I don't believe it should be an entitlement that we should get anywhere simply because Manchester United is a big club. That's the great thing about football is that reputation, history and stature, and 'who you are' counts for little when the players cross that white line onto the field. 

Don't get me wrong, I hate it when we lose, I love it when we win - like anyone, from any walk of life would who supports a club/team across any sport, but what really gets my goat is playing without the sense of identity that should be present when playing for United; Making the runs, putting in the tackles, doing the hard yards with and without the ball, essentially just doing the basics and building - It's not to say we should be up there competing for everything and winning every trophy in sight, it's just not where we're at, at the moment. What I'd rather see is a concerted effort to try and right the wrongs since Sir Alex Ferguson retired, get back to what we are about as a club and make moves from there. As it turns out, after a think about it since season's end I'd rather us play in the Europa League this season, as the 19/20 season will be more about putting the building blocks in place & setting foundations for seasons to come. 

As far as the off-season has gone, I'm liking the change in tack for our transfer dealings, bringing in youthful players who are hungry to stamp their mark on the game and make a name for themselves at this club through hard work and perseverance (because they should know that things are not going to be easy for them). Obviously still a little bit to go until the season proper kicks off so hopefully we can iron out our situation with regards to Pogba and Lukaku, and if they do end up leaving getting the quality replacements for them, as well as looking to strengthen with another midfielder and a top class CB.

Just have to say too, while I'm happy with our couple of signings so far in Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Daniel James, the price-tag of £50 million that Newcastle want for Longstaff - What a joke! Also a little perplexing when we've got someone like McTominay coming through to the first team setup. Longstaff a bit more attack minded, but still think McTominay will be a huge part of our midfield for years to come.

Perth 0  ManU 2

Yep, I watched the majority of the game and it's a bit of a humbling score to Perth. They sat with 9 behind the ball at all times and the pitch was pretty narrow so it was hard going to break them down.

The new signings were good, I thought Daniel James in particular was very bright, definitely has pace but his movement is also very intelligent and as they sat deeper making it hard for him to get in behind, he was happy to drop off and receive the ball. Wan Bissaka looked solid @ RB and wasn't really troubled from what they threw at him which wasn't a lot.

We desperately need that CB signing, all Tuanzabe did all game was foul Fornaroli, that's not going to cut it in the EPL. Oddly I thought Jones was one of our better CB's in the game, he steps out well with the ball at times. 

The young lads, Greenwood and Gomes in particular were excellent also, they seem to be playing with no fear at the moment and long may it continue, they certainly have the ability to give defenders issues! McTominay is turning into a real Rolls Royce. Smooth, classy and seems unflappable.

I do think we'll get Bruno Fernandes and the rumour mill is really swirling now that Maguire is keen to move from Leicester, we're going to massively overpay for him, but we have no choice. I just really hope he's not another Smalling/Jones further down the track.