(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread (Part 3)

While as a Saints fan I think that a large degree of responsibility for the loss lies with Payton and his management of the game from the two-minute warning onwards, that missed PI call (there had been another one a series prior as well) is one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen in the NFL, and I've followed the league for 20+ years. There is absolute outrage over it in the States, and if the Rams do end up getting past the Pats, this will get thrown in their faces for years to come even though it's not really their fault. In a way, it's a situation that sucks for both teams.

It was an absolutely horrible call.

But if I was a Rams fan I wouldn't give two sh*ts, to be honest. 

How come it was not overturned in their review process? 

Pass interference is not reviewable.

'Judgment' calls aren't reviewable, but this incident has prompted another round of talks of making at least PI calls reviewable. 

Yeah I guess if you're a fan you wouldn't care, but wonder how their players feel with the entire league up in arms about it, and people like Adam Schefter saying that a situation like this throws the integrity of the league in the spotlight. At the very least, it's a huge distraction from the achievement of actually making the Superbowl.

But anyway, waaaay off topic now. Back to Arsenal please :-) (and that goes for me too).

I'd say their players are pretty stoked about being in a superbowl. A lot more is being made of it than necessary in my opinion. These things happen in sports, it's part of the game, all sports have a litany of injustices through their history. It doesn't justify anything of course, but this is life. These days people are a lot less resilient when it comes to this sort of thing so I'm sure the uproar will continue for a while yet. 

I used to bemoan every penalty call etc going against Arsenal in this way, but eventually you just tie yourself in knots with that, it doesn't get you anywhere. Matches are decided on small margins and those margins are eventually forgotten. 

Interesting letter in the Football365 mailbox thing they do;

It’s all very well having a pop at the likes of Salah for diving – but how about considering how infuriating the reverse of this is?

I’m looking at you Alexander Bloody Lacazette. Sometimes I think this guy would need to be hit with a handbag full of concrete before he’d actually go down in the box. Watching this guy up close, I lose count of the number of times he stays on his feet when pretty much all of his peers would have dropped to the floor.

I’m not saying I’m a fan of diving – but if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em. Laca’s lack of diving is costing us points and penalties.

I've often felt that. It's the hardest part of the game. Players hit the deck to exagerate contact and ensure they get the penalty. They're called divers and they're ruining the game. Players don't hit the deck and try to stay on their fit are told there wasn't a foul. It seems a race to the bottom, and it's actually something VAR could be useful in combating. By being able to refer penalty shouts you'd hope we'd see more cards for simulation, and we'd see more penalties given where a player is fould but doesn't hit the deck like they've been shot.

In other news this morning it sounds like Suarez deal is dead. Could be a negotiation tactic, or it's Arsenal showing some grit and refusing to make a deal that compromises the future. I get the sense that if we're forced to buy Suarez in the summer, then we may as well invest in a similar deal with a player we're more concretly interested in in the long term. Hopefully it means we're going back to a player like Carassco, or some of these other young wingers we've been linked with.

It could also be due to the Bellerin injury. With Mhiki on the mend, but  Bellerin & Holding out for the season they may be tempted to go to the market to get a defensive cover sooner rather than later. It would make sense to prioritise a RB as Lichsteiner & Jenko are likely done at the end of the season, Osei-Tutu doesn't seem to be in the frame, and AMN doesn't want to play there. Makes sense to bring forward the summers dealings now for this position.

I reckon AMN will play there. If he doesn't want to play there then perhaps his attitude isn't right? He's not going to get a place in midfield at any other decent-sized clubs, so if I were him I'd be snapping Emery's hands off at an offer to start regularly, in any position. 

I think he's the best option we have right now for the long-term replacement. 

I haven't seen this Suarez news but if true, I like that, we shouldn't be forcing ourselves to do something just for the sake of it in January. The long term is more important to me. 

So Spurs missing Kane, Alli, Moura, Sissoko, Son.

Race for top 4 going to get interesting. 

Spurs might drop out and could come down to you guys, us and United.

Re: Rams. If they weren't facing the Pats they'd be getting a lot more flack about how they got to the final. Don't think people are really blaming them, it's moreso the refs/league. If they were facing the Chiefs they'd be the villains. But everyone needs them to beat Brady and co.

Re: Spurs, Popovich needs to... nah, just kidding.

Re: the actual Spurs, I think it's less a case of them dropping out of it and more a case of them dropping into it. If you look at their historical record sans Kane they usually muddle along just fine. I can absolutely see them finishing 5th, but not 6th.

Don't know anything about NFL other than that's Kroenke's team and he moved their base about the distance of moving Arsenal to Norway. As with the FA Cup Finals, presumably he'll turn up to the Superbowl grinning as if he had anything to do with results on the pitch. 

The Laca discussion regarding diving is interesting. When you run around the pitch your whole mentality is to not lose the ball at all costs.

It's actually quite hard to then say I'm going to turn into a sack of potatoes and fall over at any thought of anyone grazing my toe. This is also why certain cultures are often so good at diving - they grow up doing it and learn how to anticipate the smallest of contact just like they would any other skill.

At the top level of football that I have played, this whole diving thing was extremely hard. Countless times after being pushed in the box, or virtually tripped over and muscling out a shot anyway you're jogging back to halfway thinking shark, I could have gone down there.

The solution to me is pretty simple, start giving fouls without players having to fall over.

I love the simplicity of the football laws but, while a finger nail grazing a shoe lace is enough to make a fully grown athlete fall to the ground and is technically a penalty (because there was contact) - I think the governing bodies need to have a good hard think about whether the smallest of touches should be a foul or not. Which is why I don't think the VAR will help the situation at all - if anything it will make it worse as the slow-motion nature of VAR exemplifies the tiniest contact.

Very good points imo 20legend.

I agree with you that giving fouls without players having to fall over would go a long way in helping. 

And you hardly ever see it, but a ref giving an advantage for a penalty in the box would be a great thing. 

The advantage is a good point. Currently, if you stay on your feet and have a shot, the shot is considered your advantage, so it's advantage over.

This is probably what started the diving in the first place.

If you're fouled and manage to stay up for a shot - and miss- a penalty should still be awarded. This effectively gives the player 2 chances but then that's the gain of not diving. I think diving would become a last ditch tactic, not a go to in order to avoid responsibility.

Reports overnight from Arseblog are that United turned down our loan offer for Baily. Would have been a much better option for us than Mustafi, but not surprised they're loath to help us given how the table looks. 

Thats a bit gutting,  i rate that bailly.

Apparently no De Gea for tomorrow, excellent news. 

*Question as have not really kept up with Arsenal as much as I would have liked*

Is the FA Cup a high priority for Emery? What is a successful season for Arsenal this year?

Great question. Not sure of the answer but will give my opinion...

I have a feeling based on what we've seen that Emery will see the FA Cup as fairly important, but not as important as Top 4 or the Europa League. I am expecting a full strength lineup tomorrow, perhaps with the exception of Leno for Cech. 

Having said that, I don't know what a full strength line-up is under Emery. He is very horses-for-courses, a lot of formations and player selections differ depending on the set-up of the opponent. For example he went with Maitland-Niles on the right wing at Liverpool, he will make odd selections like that. And the formation could be anything. 2 or 3 CBs, 2 or 3 in midfield, 1 or 2 strikers, many different options. Emery will make those decisions based on your set-up and tactics that he has observed through video analysis. Obviously quite different from Wenger who went out to try and dictate the game every single time, even in ridiculous circumstances like playing against tika-taka Barcelona at the top of their game (although incidentally a home tie against them actually did result in one of our most famous victories! The exception to the norm though when it came to big games after about 2009).

I think a successful season for us would be Champions League qualification, by way of the top 4 or winning the Europa League, either way. 

However if we don't do that (you'd have to say we're not the favourite for either of those scenarios), I don't think it would be seen as a failure either. It's his first season, he will be given time. 

An FA Cup win would be a lot like it was for Wenger when he won the last 3 most probably - nice, enjoyable, but ultimately not the marker of overall progress. Emery is a little like Klopp in that he places a lot of importance on the players to entertain and engage the fans at home, so that's why I think he might see this game as very important, not for the overall goal of the FA Cup necessarily. Although I did enjoy his comments about Arsenal's FA Cup history, so perhaps I could be mistaken there. 

Sounds like Henry has been sacked at Monaco. 

Thank you Chelsea

Pretty standard expectations in first season I suppose. Would expect that no CL / top four and no trophy would not be enough in a second season. 

Interesting to hear that Emery is able to adapt team to suit the type of game. Have Arsenal got the players that can do that too? Pace up top and technical midfield is an interesting combination in itself. 

Yes he does seem capable of that. Although we copped a hiding at Liverpool so it didn't work out too well that day!

The home victories against Spurs and Chelsea and the draw against Liverpool were probably our best performances of the season, and from memory I believe we used 3 different formations in those games. A back 3 against Liverpool and Spurs but with different set-ups in midfield, and a back 4 against Chelsea last week, with Ramsey as a 10 and two strikers ahead of him. 

Overall Emery seems to be very good at preparing teams for big games in particular (with the odd slip). His Sevilla side battered a much-fancied Liverpool in the Europa League final a cupla years back. They had the big win against Barca when he was at PSG (followed by the dramatic reverse in the 2nd leg). He's actually got a great record in finals too. And then at Arsenal he's done similar - the Spurs and Chelsea wins at home were somewhat unexpected. Although we had a bit of a streak going into Spurs we hadn't played the house down, it was clearly our best performance of the season. And the Chelsea win was excellent last week despite poor form going into it (lost to Westham the week prior). 

So I'm feeling confident in that respect, but I'm worried about how good ManU might be. I haven't been watching you guys really, but from everything I've read it seems you're absolutely storming. 

On the players question, it does seem that a lot of them have adapted to the demands, but there are a group who haven't so much. Ozil being one it seems. Ramsey is a bit of a curious case. He appears decent under Emery but isn't necessarily seen as a first pick. 

I'm worried that Kosc cant jump any more and that he will be asked to do a fair bit of that today. Also, who is going at RB? AMN? 

good looking 11 until Sokratis got injured

glad De Gea isn’t playing!

holy sh*t we are awful defensively.

Awesome. We’ve lost Koscielny & Sokratis.  This game could have been very different if that laca penalty was given.

Season in tatters with our 3 best CBs and Bellerin all crocked. Devastating.
That was very reminiscent of the 3-1 loss to them here last season.

Sigh.

*sigh* indeed, just fudgeing defend properly.

I was annoyed that Sokratis made such a big song and dance when he got injured, it really disrupted our rhythm. We looked dominant, we were in a flow, and we looked defensively sound on the break at that point in the match. Then we basically went to the dogs for about 20 minutes after her went off. 

Good recovery before half time, and for a period after we looked very likely to equalise and get on with it. 

Again the rhythm went with Koscielny's lengthy injury, Ozil was completely ineffectual off the bench, we lacked a killer instinct throughout the second half, and our makeshift backline made it easy for them on the counter. 

Disappointing result, devastating injuries. 

We need 3 points against Cardiff in midweek. Then off to City for the weekend, yikes, that could be worse than the Liverpool game with the backline we'll probably have to put out. 

As much as I acknowledge that having the best players on the park generally make a difference, I just felt like the way each team approached the game was the difference today. You could see that Arsenal kept with their usual approach of attacking in the wide areas, trying to form overloads and then make penetrating passes into the box. 

While I appreciate this style, why did Arsenal stick with it, even though it increased their exposure to the counter? United's approach was so clear but Arsenal didn't move their attacks from side to side that it increased United's effectiveness. Young was getting absolutely done at RB and while the goal came from there, more purchase could have been made. 

I might also make the argument that the Arsenal players did not defend so badly today, but their approach in possession reduced their defensive structures to barely existent when United countered. 

Both CBs stepping up without the fullbacks exposed the space for the first goal and Kolscielny tried to play offside for the second. The third goal could have happened in a number of ways with Pogba running through, but where was the midfield stopping the key passes which started all of them? 

Apparently we're trying to get Perisic on loan with with 35m option to buy in the Summer. Talk that we tried for an Ozil swap but they weren't interested. 

Seems a slim chance of him coming. All these deals we're trying to make really require the selling club to be desperate. Apparently we've missed Suarez because we won't guarantee that we'll buy him permanently in the summer (fair enough), so offers from Sevilla and others are more attractive to Barca as they're offering cash up front (fair enough). The rumours are that Suarez is refusing to go anywhere but Arsenal, and Barca are staying too bad (also fair enough). 

So basically we need the player to push, and for no better offers to come from elsewhere, both tough asks.

Perisic would be an interesting one. Key player for Inter but they're out of Europe, out of the title race and reasonably secure as far as a top 4 spot is concerned. So perhaps they decide to cash in on him. Though he is contracted through to 2022 and given the prices they were quoting United when Jose was trying to get him, 35m seems a bit on the cheap side.

Where would he slot into the team? I'm guessing he'd be behind both Aubameyang and Lacazette in the pecking order. 

He would play on the wing i'm guessing.

Also i find your display picture highly offensive.

Apparently they’ll let him go to find Carasco, which makes me wonder why we don’t just go for the younger man instead of another older player. 

I'd also imagine Carrasco isn't on the 250k p/w that Inter are paying Perisic.

Is Persic  what we really need at the moment, can't seem to get too exicted about that. Would rather keep ramsey tbh

Man u was a real kick in the teeth, its been a horrible last month.