(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread (Part 3)

I was slightly tongue in cheek Rich - but 2 CB's isn't too bad a shout. We've got some numbers but we're seriously lacking some quality.

If we're serious about improving our defence of course... Chambers, Holding, and Mavro aren't there yet - hopefully this season two of the three make the step up, consistently - or at least one does. Having an old/er, EPL exp defender "like" a Gaz Cah in for a season (or 2) in the same role that we had Per doing would be useful for those 15/20 games, and even more so at London Colney... it's not like we have a great injury record... as it stands we have one experienced, first team starting quality CB - and he's not exactly world class. 

I don't see Monreal as CB cover... on the bench, sure, in the occasional/inevitable injury created emergency, sure - but not with any regularity. And if he is, why have we got so many young CB's? Surely we'd be better to shift one or two and reinvest?

I'm unconvinced/concerned by the CB's we've been linked to. Juve aren't going to let Rugani go if he's any good - so what are his flaws, and how will they impact the way UE wants to play? Upamecano looks the goods - but again, he's a young 'un who'll take some time to develop. Surely there's a decent mid-late 20's EPL-experienced CB we can pickup from a "lesser" club? We can offer them some Euro(pa league) football too :p

But that aside, we really need a left defender/wing back... and possibly some decent cover for Hector; who'd better not be bought back too soon.

But meh... we're gonna win 9-8!!!

Holding is the goods. No coincidence he played most of that unbeaten run last season and we went to the dogs after he and sokratis picked up injuries/suspensions. Im expecting holding to be quality this season.
Agree with you on chambers, except i think its more that the jury is still out rather than him not being ready. If hes not good enough this season then bin, its make or break...
Mavro definitely not ready, based on his appearances last season.
What you describe for Monreals preferred amount of game time is what i want, and what i expect for the 5th choice. Hes an experienced head if we have an injury crisis.
We cannot carry mustafi into the season.

I think cahill has signed for palace

Make or break for Chambers is a bit unfair. Signed a new long term contract then had a good season for Fulham in the EPL. I'd say he warrants a couple of years opportunities. Given he's 24 I wouldn't be in a rush to move him on. Definitely think he's head and shoulders ahead of Mavropanos for instance.

Woke up to some thoughts on Coutinho being a bit of sh*t housery from Sp*rs trying to get payback for other deals and that they'll land him instead. Would make sense given they're expecting to lose Eriksen.

I'm with you all on defence but I'm thinking a new LB is as important as a new CB. As delightful as Coutinho would be I'd rather we landed a LB and a CB in the remaining 34 hours. 

The problem with Tierney is the blokes still out for another couple of months, meaning we go without our best 2 fullbacks for the first quarter of the season which is less than ideal.

Still time for Raul to pull off a blinder of a window for incomings, and possible outgoings to other leagues too...

Not sure you can these days.

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David Luiz was categorically not what I was thinking... jeebus.

The next 21 hours are going to be fascinating.

Sounds like tierney is done. Luiz will get done. Didnt expect that. Cheap stop gap but not sure how i feel, never been a fan...
Coutinho not happening.
I dont think im being harsh on chambers. This is his big chance. I dont want to be giving a 25yo unproven CB a chance to prove himself again next season when holding is younger and better, and saliba as well.
Mavro is younger and has had bad luck with injuries, different story than chambers.
Doesnt mean im writing chambers off whatsoever tho. Hes got a whole season to stake his claim, this is how it works. Come on son, up to you now... Preseason was promising, anyone else think he looks a bit quicker?

My overriding image of Luiz is the 7-1 against Germany when he was the CB and not even in the frame for any of the goals. Feel a bit sick about the prospect having been so excited after Pepe. Almost feels like we shouldn't have bothered with spending that amount on Pepe if it means we have to bolster the defence by adding a crocked left back who sounds like another Rosicky and Luiz.

Jeez, how pessimistic are you guys?

I rate this window a 9/10, just because we couldn't get a real CB for the future over the line (for this season). It is our best transfer window in years, on the back of a horrific loss in the Europa League final and (again) not qualifying for the CL. That is nothing short of a miracle.

We've brought in promising players for the future - Martinelli (already looks ahead of the likes of Nketiah, imo), Saliba

Good players who could get even better who fill gaps in the first XI - Pepe, Cebellos (let's hope he stays), Tierney

Stopgaps for positions we are desperate in to get us through to the next window - Luiz

Luiz isn't great, but he's still instantly our best defender after Sokratis if signed. A perfectly acceptable stop gap until Saliba comes in and we hopefully sign Upamecano next season. Chambers is not good enough and will never be good enough; the further away from the first XI he is, the better. 

Our first option was Upamecano. Priced out of it - 100m release clause, RB not budging.

Our second option was Rugani from Juve. 40-50m. Not worth that money. Priced out of it.

Our 3rd option was Luiz. Looks to be for around 5-10m. Very good business in this market.

The fact that we even had a 3rd option shows we are far ahead in teams of organisation than we have ever previously been. This is great news imo.

Tierney is also a very good signing based on the player he is and how he plays; injuries are a concern, yes, but that is what the medical is for.

dbl post

Agree there Valeo, except I'm still optimistic that Chambers can do a job, lets see this season.

I also rate Holding very highly, but temper that with him coming back from a bad injury, so would agree with the comment that Luiz is immediately our best CB after Sokratis (who I think is better than he's given credit for). 

Window is definitely 9/10 for sure. In fact if you go back 2 months to  the 45m carry on, and what we were realistically looking at back then, then I would give this 20/10!!!! Man we were down in the dumps. The "Wecaredoyou" campaign feels like a bad dream. 

Josh Kroenke's comment "I would say be excited" comes back to me now. I watched that and thought yea you would say that, having heard that kinda crap from Gazidis over and over, but now he's actually delivered on it. 

Now I'm just riding this excited high through to Sunday night, at which point we'll probably have our bubble burst hahahahaha

The sad thing is that if you think about our lineup for the opening game, it's almost certain that no new signings will start, and Lacazette, Holding and Bellerin will not be available either. Geez Mustafi could even be starting.                        

It's a 9/10 window in terms of numbers for sure and not something we'd have seen with Wenger so it's encouraging and the attacking signings are exciting but still feel we've not done enough in defence. We conceded 51 goals last season and replacing Koscielny with Luiz IMO makes the defence worse. Hopefully Tierney works out but the injury problems are very worrying and good knows when he'll actually be available. Holding and Bellerin coming back from ACL injuries can't be counted on for a while yet. I'm sure we'll be more exciting but we can't win every game 6-5 and still need a better centre back if we want 4th. It's not a position for a stop gap IMO. Probably being a bit too pessimistic but I don't see the defence as good enough to get 4th yet.

I  think that's a very clever way of negatively couching things ajc ;)

Luiz played for Chelsea 50 times last season and they got third, so it's interesting that he's not a good enough CB to get 4th hahahaha. I know that's also a clever way of couching the argument, but I'm just making a point :)

Here's what I'm thinking...

- Sokratis started 25 premier league games last season

- Koscielny started 13(!) premier league games last season

- Holding only started 9 premier league games before his injury (and had muscled his way to first choice at that point)

- Mustafi started 31 premier league games last season

- Mavro started 3 premier league games last season

- Chambers didn't start any for Arsenal, and played DM all year for Fulham (their player of the season)

- Most importantly, Xhaka, Lichtsteiner and Monreal started a LOT of games at CB between them

Looking at these stats, this isn't replacing Kosc with Luiz, this is replacing MUSTAFI with Luiz, and that is an upgrade for sure. 

Chambers comes in to basically replace Xhaka/Lichtsteiner/Monreal/Mavro's CB appearances, which is also an upgrade. 

And Holding hopefully handles Koscielny's appearances. 

With a bit of luck Sokratis is available for more than 25 starts. 

It's easy to forget that we had a CB injury crisis last season, and it essentially derailed us. Our long unbeaten run culminated with our glorious victory over Spurs at home, but after that game we lost them to injury/suspension almost all at once. We never really recovered from that, and we never had a consistent combination at the back for the rest of the season. Even without bolstering (or selling Mustafi, same as bolstering lol), we should be hoping for better luck in that respect. 

Optimistic perhaps but it is easy to forget how little Koscielny actually played, and when he did play, it was in the 2nd half of the season (his first appearance was the 3-2 loss to Soton in Dec), not during our best run of form of the season. Not saying he played badly, he didn't, but he certainly wasn't a key figure during our best run of form, which is interesting, and 31 of the 51 we conceded happened after he came back into the side. 

Yep, agree with all of that Paul - yes, our defence is not quite there yet, but expecting us to solve everything in one window after not qualifying for the CL again is quite ridiculous.

Kos was still probably our best defender on one leg; but this season, he'd likely have regressed even further. Luiz is a far better option. This is a guy who was first choice for a team that finished above us, remember. 

Is he the best defender? No. Does he suit Arsenal? Absolutely. Progressive passing from the back will help us more than you expect, I think, especially with Ceballos in the middle.

Also, not to be understated is the fact that we've actually got money for players - 1m for Asano, a few million for Jenko, 5m for Kos, 10m for Bielik; it all adds up.

I do hope you're right bit I disagree that Luiz is an upgrade on Mustafi. Same shark, different haircut IMO. It did help Luiz playing behind a midfield that didn't leave him as exposed as ours did Mustafi, but playing behind Xhaka he won't have that luxury. On paper s back 4 of Bellerin, Holding, Sokratis, Tierney should be strong enough for 4th. But given the injuries to 3 of them we'll still be relying far too much on Mustafi, Monreal and Luiz. I hope I'm wrong but I still see us conceding too many goals.

Yep and we could be looking at a deadline day sale of Iwobi valeo... apparently we rejected a 30m bid from Everton last night, but we're expecting them to come back with more.

I've always liked Iwobi but he doesn't score enough goals. It would be a little bit sad as he came through our academy, and is a likeable chap, but lets face it we want better in that role, so perhaps giving Nelson a crack in the first team is a better way to go now. 

With Auba, Laca, Pepe and Mkhi, we have 4 senior options for the front 3, and in some of our set-ups we only use 2 i.e. when we play a 3-4-1-2 etc. 

Personally I had hoped we'd get Mkhi's wages off the books but if I'm honest, I think we're stronger with him than Iwobi, if we had to choose. Sometimes Mkhi disappears but he still scores and assists more, and that's the name of the game up front. 

Also, was just looking at the results last season, and to emphasise the point on the CB crisis, we had a back 3 of Holding, Sokratis and Mustafi in that Spurs victory. Just 2 weeks later in the loss to Soton, we were forced to start Xhaka, Koscielny and Lichtsteiner, in Kosc's first game back from his achilles.

We all know the reason Chelsea got third.

Mustafi-Luiz going to be box office...

Very out-of-the-blue this. Had to move on from him sooner or later, though, so whatevs.

This is the first time I think I've ever been sitting actively refreshing on deadline day. Although I'm not necessarily excited by the players it is exciting for us to actually be involved. Although Luiz puts a dampener on a good window for me it is a positive at least getting a stop gap where with Wenger if we'd failed to get our first choice we'd have just settled for nothing.

Tierney, Luiz pretty much confirmed.

Looks like Dybala to Spurs is off.

Bit harsh on Luiz... yeah he's been a liability in the past but was solid AF for Chelsea last season. And his passing out from the back can be sublime at times, I reckon you'll see a lot of goals that are will be basically Luiz -> Pepe -> back of the net.

What a day.

Tierney is official. 

Nketiah has joined Leeds on loan.

Looks like Iwobi to Everton's going through, with a deal sheet submitted giving Everton until 7pm, another hour and a half from now. It is one of 6 deal sheets submitted.

Unsure what's happening at CB for us, nothing confirmed.

Sp*rs fell over with Dybala and likely Sessengnon. They did also get Lo Celso (who?!).

Edit looks like they got Sessegnon. 

Also looks like Auba and Laca have signed new deals.

Iwobi seems to be sold because valuation was met and we needed the cash. Pepe's essentially the upgrade on him.

I think given Ozil/Mhiki are the guys occupying his spot which is sad, but given the talent coming through I think it's a good deal all round.

Be careful what you wish for.

Lols aside; I'm pretty happy with that window given the circumstances we were led to believe we were in at the beginning of the window. Sounds like we're in for Upamecano in Jan too... but anyway.

Would've liked some more quality at centre half - and possibly some better backup for Hector but all-in-all Raul is the man. The other key aspect is that we're moving players on and gaining an income from them... what a great idea! Early days but a lot to be optimistic about over the next few seasons. Certainly more so than I felt a couple of months ago.

Also great to see there's some space for a couple of the kids to get some opportunities and see whether they can make the step up - or whether we cash in. Lots to like.

COYG!

Now to have some fun with potential lineups for this season. 

Best 11 in a 4-2-3-1?

                  Leno

Bellerin-Sokratis-Luiz-Tierney

          Xhaka-Torreira

          Pepe-Ozil-Auba

             Lacazette

A more mobile 4-3-3?

                   Leno

Bellerin-Sokratis-Luiz-Tierney

 Guendouzi-Torreira-Ceballos

          Pepe-Laca-Mkhi

3-4-1-2?

                   Leno

        Holding-Sokratis-Luiz

Bellerin-Xhaka-Torreira-Kolasinac

                    Ozil

               Laca-Auba

Likely XI for this weekend?

                     Leno

AMN-Sokratis-Chambers-Monreal

           Xhaka-Guendouzi

            Auba-Ozil-Nelson

                  Lacazette

Incredible amount of business by our standards. Pepe and Ceballos look like they'll improve the attack, although I'm not happy about the temporary nature of Ceballos. Disappointed not to make an improvement at centre back where it was most needed though and hope we won't have to lineup with Luiz and Mustafi next to each other too often. Tierney sounds good so hope the injury problems are not too long term.

Incredible bit of business for Iwobi who offered 3 goals a season in the front 3. Like Welbeck he'll neither be missed nor remembered. Think it's Nelson who effectively takes his place in the squad while Pepe is the upgrade that was needed even with him here.

This is where I tell you to go fudge yourself.

Welbeck had his injuries and scored some important goals. He worked his ass off for us and left with class.

Iwobi's been with the club since a boy, he's played some good football. At 23 was he still a bit rough? Sure. But to say he won't be missed nor remebered shows a total lack of class or gratitude towards one of our own.

I'd argue Ceballos could possibly replace Xhaka or Ozil and improve it depending on their form, but that's an 11 that should be battling for 3rd minimum.

Don't think there's any need to get personal when you disagree, but up to you. I hold no ill feeling towards Iwobi and hope he does well, but the club is not a charity and he wasn't good enough, so it's good business to sell. His contribution on the pitch will not be missed because there was very little of it.

Edit: Should clarify that I don't dislike either player. Both seemed likeable characters and did not disrespect the club and I wish them both well. But neither contributed enough on the pitch to warrant a place in a team with top 4 ambitions, not always through their own fault (injuries etc), and it was correct to let both go.

Yea bit harsh brumbys... but I do agree with your sentiment. 

I will remember both, particularly Welbeck and the bantz after his goals against ManU. Also don't forget the running narrative when he signed was that ManU had upgraded by paying the full Welbeck fee to Falcao in wages for one season :) 

Both of them have tried hard and were liked by the fans, and had their share of bad luck, particularly Welbz. Will remember both fondly, and hope they both go well from here. 

Guendouzi and Luiz on the pitch at the same time is going to be so confusing :)

Iwobi leaving really throws a spanner in the works because, no matter what you think, he was a lock for that LW position if we played with one up front. It's up for grabs now; Nelson/Saka need to step up, which is a big ask.

I think he did really well for us, personally, and overall improved last season. He was frustrating, but also quite unfairly maligned at times - especially considering he was one of our own. 

In saying that, 40m is a decent bit of business and it's amazing that we're actually selling players for money again. My suspicion is we needed to sell to make sure we're in line with FFP for this year and the next, and we'll be putting that money away fro a CB next window.

Re: Luiz; I think we'll see Xhaka transition out of the team the more Luiz plays, much like Chelsea did to Matic/Cesc. They have similar passing ranges. Luiz created 11 big chances in the Premier League last season, more than any Arsenal player. 

Here's a great write-up about it;

https://arseblog.com/2019/08/david-luiz/

Could it turn bad? Sure, but I genuinely think he could be great for us if the environment is right.

Here's what I think we'll see this season - to start v Newcastle;

4-2-3-1

Leno

AMN-Sokratis-Luiz-Monreal

Xhaka-Guendouzi

Ceballos
Auba Mkhi

Lacazette

Ideal lineup when everyone is fit/integrated;

Leno

Bellerin-Sokratis-Luiz-Tierney

Torreira-Guendouzi

Pepe-Ceballos-Auba

Lacazette

Also think we'll use the back 3 every now and then when it suits;

Leno

      Sokratis-Luiz-Monreal

Bellerin Torreira-Guendouzi Tierney

Pepe-Ceballos-Nelson

Auba

Do you reckon Ozil will be completely marginalised from the get-go like that?

Going by the pre-season, I would've expected him to start... but then with Emery anything can happen. Last season he didn't really like to start Ozil in away games at all...

I don't think Ozil is starting away to Newcastle, nope. Guess we'll see. I always kind of forget about Ozil these days.

That was a great piece you posted on Luiz. Got me well excited. That wee clip embedded within the article shows it beautifully, what a ball out of no where to tear Liverpool apart like that. 

The thought of Sokratis and Luiz in our back line does give me some comfort, 2 experienced heads, both aggressive sons of b*tches too. They won't take no sh*t. 

I just really think it's a bit of a masterstroke; even if on the face of it the initial reaction is 'What the fudge?'.

Like anything, could turn out bad or it could turn out good - but I think the potential upside is worth it for 8m. It also weakens Chelsea. He was a first choice CB for them last season.

Yea he's basically been their no.1 CB for 2 straight years, which included winning the title, and playing in a back 4 and a back 3 in that time (and he was the leader in the back 3, playing centrally). I hardly took any notice......

The more I look at it the better this signing is starting to look.