Tyler Boyd - USA (Nashville SC | USA)

isn't determining progression and seeding to the next stage of WCQ just a ticket to another tournament?

the point is that with the Confeds Cup we will have the ONC every 2 years, without it it'll be every 4 years and then it will probably just morph into World Cup Qualifying

I guess it kind of is - but the primary purpose of the tournament is to determine the best team in Oceania, which has independent merit even if it doesn't come with a trip to the Confederations Cup - no-one's suggesting binning Copa America or the Gold Cup or the Euros or AfCon or the Asian Cup now the Confederations Cup doesn't exist?

I don't get the second bit - the Nations Cup has been held every four years (since Australia left anyway)? 2008 (though not as a tournament)-2012-2016-2020?

I hope we keep the Boyd thread going. Ex Nix player could end up playing for the USA national team....thats kind of cool!!!!

I dont really get he Boyd hate on this forum. Ok as a teenager he might have done some dumb stuff that might of annoyed a few people. But FFS we all did dumb stuff when we were teenagers and some of us are still doing it.

Give the kid a break. He's worked his arse off to get where he is now. Good luck to him. If all goes well he could crack the USA mens team and get a good pro contract with a good European club...all in the next month or so.

As has been pointed out why would you put your energies into a disfunctional outfit like NZF? Why would you wait around and hope that one day they get their act together when you have another door that might be opening? There is no coherent program for the national mens team. Lets face it, we are in Oceania, we are shackled to a dead corpse. Nothing will change. As fans we will get maybe two meaningful games every four years for the AW"S. When Oceania gets direct WC entry there wont even be any big playoff games, we will get zero meaningful games at home...for ever!!!!!!.

Despite what Declan might say (and he's also said many times how good he was for producing lots of age group reps in the past), many of our current Ferns are playing overseas because of that experience they gained. If you think they have stepped up to that level by playing games against dannivrke wanderers you need to think again. The benefit here is seeing what the rest of the world is like and knowing what needs to be done to step up to that.

I jus had a look at the 2013 U20 WC squad....Tuiloma, Howieson, Boyd, Payne, Watson, Fenton, Gulley, Thomas, (and Jesse Edge coincidentally). It's a regular who's who of both this Kiwis overseas section and the Nix transfer speculation threads. They didn't all turn up in these forums by playing Cap 1. 

And while some Ole kids (and Phoenix Academy and others) are getting gigs overseas, there are plenty that get those gigs on the back of age group WC performances. 

It's not the same though, is it? Other continental championships make good money for the respective confederations. If they didn't, their value otherwise would be quickly reconsidered. The Oceania tournaments, be they club or country, are big money losers for everyone involved. If they don't lead to an outcome where there can be some sort of financial gain, they're really a drain on the very limited resource.

In that case, you may as well proclaim the winner of the World Cup qualifying cycle the OFC champion, it would certainly cut down the cost for everyone. 

Just bin it, it’s sharkhouse esp if no Confeds Cup spot up for grabs.

Speak to FFA and arrange some quadranglar tourney for next May-June with 2 games each in NZ and Australia. Invite 2 of Korea/Japan/China. Or some Sth American countries if no CONEMBOL qualifiers on at that time.

Likes of Uruguay, Chile etc have been playing friendlies in Asia in recent times.

Like who?

Payne, Brotherton, Dyer, Musa, Tuiloma, Woud, Mitchell, Bevan, etc etc in recent years alone

Payne - pretty sure it was an association with Ryan Nelsen (family connection?) that got him to Blackburn.

Brotherton - went to a USA college. Some contact there got him a trial at Sunderland. Those US connections I'm sure got him back stateside into USL.

Dyer - 3rd division Norway. If underage NZ representation helped with that fair enough. 

Musa - Nelsen helped him get to Fulham (Olympics team mates?). Can't remember how he got to the USL. May have been through U20's but don't think so.

Tuiloma - yipe definitely spotted at U20 WC by someone. Had trialled with QPR, post that, and Joey Barton of all people recommended him to OM.

Woud - signed by Sunderland in 2016. Had been at U17 WC in 2015. So yes seems reasonable signed off that.

Mitchell - I thought it was some family or Central United connection, that got him to Serbia for his first pro gig.

Bevan - nah, it was Nike Academy that set him on the pro path. He signed with Vancouver before 2017 U20 WC. Where is he now?

So a real mixed bag. Some for sure spotted at an underage WC, but most having other channels. 

So is it worth NZF spending millions on all these underage teams & tourneys - draining the coffers at the detriment of a quality AWs programme?

I don't know. But to me it deserves some debate.

Chris Wood has been banging in goals in the world's most high profile football league, for the last two seasons. But it all happens about 2-5am NZ time. Over that same period he's played 20 mins of football in NZ. Think about that. Fudgeing sharkhouse really. A huge missed opportunity for football to grow it's profile in NZ.

It's sort of the 1980's all over again, and that complete failure to build on 1982. 

 Again hopefully an AFC/OFC Nations League happens - but unless it does.....................it's sharkhouse forever. 

[/quote]

 him to OM.

Woud - signed by Sunderland in 2016. Had been at U17 WC in 2015. So yes seems reasonable signed off that.

Woud was spotted at the Manchester Nike cup  finals in 2015 along with another player in the current 20s campaign, and both were invited to trial. The prerequisite was a European passport, and Woud had a Dutch father, so off he went. The other did not and he was not able to trial. Woud then went on his own to live in Sunderland and the rest is history.

Even for those with "other channels", the other channels help, sure, and even if not signed directly out the back of a tournament, they have been looked at, and their CV, experience at that level, highlight reel from it all contribute to the opportunity. It is naive to think that age group representation has not helped a significant number of Kiwis further their career

Not saying it hasn't helped, some players get overseas gigs. But it is worth the large financial & resource investment? 

Would a cheaper almost purely domestic, centralised but still high quality national coaching academy setup achieve similar or better?

Sort of already what's happening with the women's game with the FFDP. Lots of Kiwi female players have already secured overseas contracts through that channel.

Perhaps try and develop a pathway with a European club (like Ole have started in Sweden), but at a NZF national level for young quality Kiwi players as a pro football opening. 

All I'm saying is what is happening now with the AWs programme is sharkhouse.

If funds/resources is the major issue (which undoubtedly it is - all the other nations at the U20 WC, will have their senior men's teams playing more than one game in 2019!), then things needed to be reviewed rather than just blindly feeling like we have to send teams to all these costly events, just because we are kings of easily the world's weakest football Confederation.

"Not saying it hasn't helped, some players get overseas gigs. But it is worth the large financial & resource investment? "

Of course, it is football

"Would a cheaper almost purely domestic, centralised but still high quality national coaching academy setup achieve similar or better?"

Needed as well, not instead of, and already happens ; Ole, Phoenix Academy et el

"Sort of already what's happening with the women's game with the FFDP. Lots of Kiwi female players have already secured overseas contracts through that channel."

Case in point. How many of those DIDN'T play for NZ at any level internationally 

"Perhaps try and develop a pathway with a European club (like Ole have started in Sweden), but at a NZF national level for young quality Kiwi players as a pro football opening."

You can't flood one club with that many players....Sweden have kids they want to see at the top too. But there are multiple opportunities. 

"All I'm saying is what is happening now with the AWs programme is sharkhouse."

Absolutely agree. But think of it as a rebuild.

"If funds/resources is the major issue (which undoubtedly it is - all the other nations at the U20 WC, will have their senior men's teams playing more than one game in 2019!), then things needed to be reviewed rather than just blindly feeling like we have to send teams to all these costly events, just because we are kings of easily the world's weakest football Confederation."

Age group WCs aren't as costly as you might think....FIFA pay the team costs for tournament. U17s will get some costs paid for current Panda Cup trip. And what we do spend is worth it if U17 sides get to semi finals for example, and U20 sides spank some of the teams they come up against. But we'll only really know as time passes and we see these kids playing professionally or full international honours.

Look CO I agree with a lot of your points. And good luck to your son I hope he makes the U17's for Brazil. But I'm sure as parent you will be proud no matter what.

Also what a fantastic achievement today by the U20's. However that performance owes a shark load more to what those young players have learned in the years at the Welnix & Ole Academies (and earlier), than anything they gained when they were in the NZ U17's (for those that were), or even what they have gained being in camp with Buckingham and co the last few weeks.

The hand of mad hatter Declan esp is all over that scoreline.

Thing is that for example Just, Wilkins, Woud, and soon to be McCowatt are all now in Europe. Cacace & Singh will surely soon follow.

Some of these guys will also hopefully be with the U23s in Tokoyo, and so feature on our TV screens briefly amongst all the other Olympic Games coverage.

But what after that? If they carve out solid careers in Europe or even MLS they will just be You Tube downloads on a Sunday morning.

Some will also feature in the AWs home inter-confed playoff game here in March 2022. But mostly they will very rarely play again on our shores (esp in any non sharkty OFC games), as the AWs barely play, let alone at home.

That's my real lament. Maybe it's the spend at the U17 level that needs review? Keep the U20 programme - but are the U17s really necessary?

No easy answers. 

Playing at World Cup events and playing well is undoubtably beneficial even if the original catalyst for a trial or job somewhere came from somewhere else. It would push the odds more in favour of an invitation than not if there was an unknown factor about the players ability to play at a high level.

Sorry, we have really hijacked this thread.

I too would love to see the AW play more but I wonder how feasible it is really in this day and age. Of course other countries are doing it but we are possibly a little different to most. The bulk of our best players ( and probably more going forward) are playing in Europe or the US and we are at the bottom of and half a world away. The logistics are a nightmare. The NZ public are apathetic about our Confederation and there is no income to be derived by playing “friendly” matches within it. Any games we can likely organise would either be at home ( where we have to pay for our visitors) or in Asia where our European players turn up late anyway and we complain because we are not playing at home. On top of that, pro clubs aren’t particularly happy in releasing their players to play for us in games that have no real meaning (outside of WC qualifying). 

It might just be that we have to make do with getting excited by our age group men’s and women’s teams performing well, our women’s team playing in the top echelon of international football and seeing our AW every 4 years as we qualify and play in the WC. 

sooo how about that Tyler Boyd... when does the Gold Cup squad get named???

I've taken the liberty of moving some of the key points in the off-topic debate about NZ Football's international priorities over to a new thread in the appropriate forum.

https://www.goldcup.org/en/article/provisional-40-player-rosters-announced-for-the-2019-concacaf-gold-cup

To view the 40-player preliminary rosters click here. In accordance with the Competition Regulations, the submitted rosters will serve as the basis for the final 23-player lists for each team. The final 23-player rosters will be announced by Concacaf the first week of June. 

Boyd misses final game of Turkish season as Ankaragucu lose 2-1 to Goztepe.

Back in Portugal sorting out his club future?

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/113019712/all-whites-coach-fritz-schmid-wishes-tyler-boyd-well-after-his-united-states-switch

Made initial cut from 40 to 28. US have a friendly against Jamaica in 3 days. 

Boyd will probably play in that, and I guess final 23 man squad will be named after.

Josh Sargent sometime team mate of Trevor Zwetsloot's at Werder Bremen reserves is still in the mix.

https://sports.yahoo.com/usmnt-coach-gregg-berhalter-names-28-player-roster-for-pre-gold-cup-training-camp-223231300.html

Likely to debut tomorrow for Team USA (11am NZ) in a pre tourney warmup verus Jamaica.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/05/21/ten-players-who-need-perform-well-2019-concacaf-gold-cup

F Tyler Boyd (Ankaragücü)

Sure, why not pile the pressure on the new guy just as he walks in the door? Well... why not? Boyd will want to prove to himself that his FIFA switch was a shrewd move and prove to US fans that he's a reliable answer on the flank for a team trying to figure things out in attack. Though young US wingers have grabbed a few helpers early in 2019, the squad has not gotten a goal from a wide threat in a year and the nearest one prior to that was Jordan Morris' 2017 Gold Cup clincher. The door is wide open for on-loan Ankaragucu survival hero to play instant USMNT ace and slow the revolving door out on the wing at once.

Not in match day squad verus Jamaica (0-0 HT).

Not sure what that means for his Gold Cup chances.

Currently 1-0 down.

Lost 1-0. Must help Boyd’s chances you would think.

Josh Sargent from Bremen’s reserves played 90 mins.

Might have been a young team as I think USA U23’s have been in camp with senior side.

Pundits picking Boyd will be in. Gold Cup squad named overnight NZ time.

https://sports.yahoo.com/usmnt-jamaica-friendly-gold-cup-roster-projection-005836437.html

Not playing vs Jamaica probably helps his chances of being selected.

And Boyd made it.

https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2019/6/6/18655191/usa-usmnt-23-man-gold-cup-roster

It'll be interesting to see what formation they use and if he starts. If they play with 3 up front, Altidore in the center and Zardes and Boyd on the wings?

Thats amazing. A kiwi boy and ex Nix player, makes the USA mens team. Congratulations Tyler. That would have to be the highest level an ex Nix player has achieved?????

I know that the USA is dominated by sports like basketball, baseball etc but mens soccer is a big deal with lots of supporters(even though the USA womens team has possibly a higher profile). The American mens team social media sites have millions of follows. For Boyd to crack the national team is a huge deal. Not only will his profile soar but if he is successful he will enhance his transfer prospects at club level.

His timing is perfect as the national team is unsettled after failing to qualify for the last WC. There are squad places wide open. I was not surprised that Boyd got a call. When you look at the rest of the wingers in the initial roster there is not a lot of quality. Boyd has scored more goals since moving to Turkey than any of the others have scored in their whole careers. When you read the USA forums the fans have been frustrated by the lack of quality and pace out wide. Its all up to him now...its not easy to come in and hit the ground running for a new team/setup but he showed in Turkey he can make an impact quite quickly.

As an aside I guess his bank balance is in for a boost.....not sure what Team USA players get paid but they wont be playing for McDonald vouchers. 

Great news, hope he bangs in some goals for them. And we can claim that he spend all his formative years at the Nix.

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2019/06/qa-getting-to-know-tyler-boyd

Starts and gets 62 minutes before being subbed off. Another unflattering result for team usa who get destroyed 3-0 by Venezuela. All three goals coming in the first 36 minutes

Considering some of the geopolitics involving USA and Venezuela, this is probably quite embarrassing.

From some of the comments on the USA Soccer reddit page, he did quite well in comparison to his teammates.

he's American should not have his own thread

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/113370664/former-all-whites-player-tyler-boyd-debuts-for-united-states-of-america

He's still a kiwi though. This isn't "All Whites Overseas". Michael Fitzgerald can't play for the all whites either, but we still have a thread for him

Technically he could play for the all whites if he dropped his Japanese passport

Boyd cannot play for us again and that is the difference